Texas Abortion Restrictions Declared Unconstitutional By Federal Judge

reply to post by Nephalim


You're bringing a health insurance argument into this topic which is not where it belongs. If you have issues with the Affordable Healthcare Act or any other managed care health insurance programs, I would first direct you to this article(so you actually know what you're speaking of):

www.comedsoc.org...

The current managed care health insurance plans in the U.S. pay for a lot of things that without government laws wouldn't be in insurance plans. Birth control, Viagra, vasectomies, and sometimes now abortion are among the included procedures.

reply to post by Nephalim


All this hullabaloo came from the Supreme Court ruling against the state of Connetecut in trying to deprive women of medical advancements by banning birth control. SCOTUS ruled the law unconstitutional.

If states would just butt out of women's bedrooms and their bodies, stop trying to regulate sexuality and leave doctors to practice medicine according to their own regulations, IE the American Medical Association, we'd all be better off.

I don't believe any of the anti-life posters in this thread have any idea what is in the Texas abortion bill to begin with. Have you not read the multiple horror stories in the news about abortion clinics unfathomable treatment of babies born alive, botch abortions, abhorrent disposable of remains, etc? This bill aims to correct those issues. Abortion clinics have been running without laws and rules for too long. What is wrong with standards on abortion clinics? What is wrong with limiting an abortion to the first 5 months of pregnancy?

OrphanApology
reply to post by Nephalim

 

You're bringing a health insurance argument into this topic which is not where it belongs. If you have issues with the Affordable Healthcare Act or any other managed care health insurance programs, I would first direct you to this article(so you actually know what you're speaking of):

www.comedsoc.org...

The current managed care health insurance plans in the U.S. pay for a lot of things that without government laws wouldn't be in insurance plans. Birth control, Viagra, vasectomies, and sometimes now abortion are among the included procedures.

edit on 29-10-2013 by OrphanApology because: d

I didnt bring it into the topic actually orphan, I replied, but rest assured, when I feel compelled? I'll do so. Point stands though, they dont have to do any of that. Its all on the shelves, by prescription or available apon appointment now and there well before this law was written. Thanks for the link.

reply to post by Nephalim


Well I'm a lesbian and I have been subsidizing guys getting their vasectomies for years in my insurance plans. Managed care plans have been paying for Viagra for years so why the big fuss now about birth control and the occasional abortion ? Doesn't make a lot of sense if you're coming from the argument of what insurance plans should or should not pay for and why.

I am all against managed care insurance because I know how insurance products work. The problem with the healthcare industry all started in 1973 with Nixon's health maintenance organization act that removed consumers from the process of buying healthcare. It's now been sealed in place with the Affordable Healthcare Act. Again though, that's an entirely different topic than the issue of requiring admitting rights which effectively shuts down most if not all the clinics.

reply to post by jjkenobi

I don't believe any of the anti-life posters in this thread have any idea what is in the Texas abortion bill to begin with. Have you not read the multiple horror stories in the news about abortion clinics unfathomable treatment of babies born alive, botch abortions, abhorrent disposable of remains, etc? This bill aims to correct those issues. Abortion clinics have been running without laws and rules for too long. What is wrong with standards on abortion clinics?

No, this law doesn't protect women or babies that survive late term abortions.

Dissecting the Texas Abortion Bill

What is wrong with limiting an abortion to the first 5 months of pregnancy?

Because, in most cases, it's only after 20 weeks that serious birth defects and health issues for the mother are able to be determined. Would you deny a woman an abortion of her kidneys were failing or if the fetus suffered from Fetal toxoplasmic encephalitis?

OrphanApology
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Well I'm a lesbian and I have been subsidizing guys getting their vasectomies for years in my insurance plans. Managed care plans have been paying for Viagra for years so why the big fuss now about birth control and the occasional abortion ? Doesn't make a lot of sense if you're coming from the argument of what insurance plans should or should not pay for and why.

whats any of that got to do with me though? I havent had a visectomy. All Ive said is BC is right up the road.

windword
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

I don't believe any of the anti-life posters in this thread have any idea what is in the Texas abortion bill to begin with. Have you not read the multiple horror stories in the news about abortion clinics unfathomable treatment of babies born alive, botch abortions, abhorrent disposable of remains, etc? This bill aims to correct those issues. Abortion clinics have been running without laws and rules for too long. What is wrong with standards on abortion clinics?

No, this law doesn't protect women or babies that survive late term abortions.

Dissecting the Texas Abortion Bill

What is wrong with limiting an abortion to the first 5 months of pregnancy?

Because, in most cases, it's only after 20 weeks that serious birth defects and health issues for the mother are able to be determined. Would you deny a woman an abortion of her kidneys were failing or if the fetus suffered from Fetal toxoplasmic encephalitis?

uhh, Ok if you abort BEFORE the twenty weeks, why would you have those issues?

reply to post by Nephalim


And what do vasectomies and Viagra have to do with me? Nothing. Yet I have been paying for them for years.

I had much rather subsidize some chicks birth control than some man's erection. Why Viagra has been paid for by insurance for years yet birth control more often than not hasn't just shows the ridiculous rules that obviously punish women for #ing. Like I said, where were all the criers all these years when I've been forced(A lesbian) to subsidize men's erections and ball snipping?

Nowhere. It's only now that birth control and abortions might be on the table that everyone's crying a river.


Also my post never said you had a vasectomy.

OrphanApology
reply to post by Nephalim

 

And what do vasectomies and Viagra have to do with me? Nothing. Yet I have been paying for them for years.

I had much rather subsidize some chicks birth control than some man's erection. Why Viagra has been paid for by insurance for years yet birth control more often than not hasn't just shows the ridiculous rules that obviously punish women for #ing. Like I said, where were all the criers all these years when I've been forced(A lesbian) to subsidize men's erections and ball snipping?

Nowhere. It's only now that birth control and abortions might be on the table that everyone's crying a river.


Also my post never said you had a vasectomy.

Youre not going to like what I tell you if Im strait up about it. You want the truth?

reply to post by Nephalim


If it has anything to do with any of the points I've made then feel free to respond. If it's something unrelated and obscure then please refrain from changing the topic at hand again.

reply to post by Nephalim

uhh, Ok if you abort BEFORE the twenty weeks, why would you have those issues?

Wow! Just......WOW! There is so much ignorance in those words!

Late term abortions are a heart wrenching decisions to make, that usually are made way late in hopes of a wrong diagnosis or plain old denial.

When a woman goes into kidney failure or heart failure due to the physical stress on her body or because of a failing fetus, a late term abortion is prescribed. These women wanted their pregnancies, but their worst fears came true.

Doctors in the US don't do late term abortion because someone lost their job or had a fight with their other half!

OrphanApology
reply to post by Nephalim

 

If it has anything to do with any of the points I've made then feel free to respond. If it's something unrelated and obscure then please refrain from changing the topic at hand again.

When you go to the insurance company and you pick a plan, sign the agreement, pay for this stuff every month for who knows how long, then you, yourself decide to pay for those things you didn't want. The fault is yours. Health insurance mam was not forced on anyone, until now. Now, you're going to pay for even more stuff you have nothing to do with along with a whole bunch of other people.

I'm not liable for your decisions any more than you're liable for mine. It sounds to me you got jipped for who knows how long and now the Government expects everyone else to pay for those companies faulty plans. Which I might add, is not right. I had nothing to do with insurance, not your plan, not your costs, not your choices. You did. :/ Does that make sense?

windword
reply to post by Nephalim

 

uhh, Ok if you abort BEFORE the twenty weeks, why would you have those issues?

Wow! Just......WOW! There is so much ignorance in those words!

Late term abortions are a heart wrenching decisions to make, that usually are made way late in hopes of a wrong diagnosis or plain old denial.

When a woman goes into kidney failure or heart failure due to the physical stress on her body or because of a failing fetus, a late term abortion is prescribed. These women wanted their pregnancies, but their worst fears came true.

Doctors in the US don't do late term abortion because someone lost their job or had a fight with their other half!

Yes, lots of ignorance. I'm asking a question.
Maybe you should tell a judge or representative about that. O.o
try to explain to them why you couldnt decide at or before 20 weeks to keep or abort?

anyway, good luck with your issues folks, I've been in the thread long enough.
have a good one.

reply to post by Nephalim


Managed care insurance has been in law since Nixon signed the health maintenance organization act of 1973. Stating that I or anyone else has had a choice in what our insurance pays for is great misinformation. The government has required in law, employer tied managed care health insurance plans that are the equivalent of auto insurance paying for oil changes.

That's why I first gave you the PDF to the actual information needed to be able to discuss health insurance. If you did read it, you did not understand it.

Here is a breakdown of how "normal" insurance products work:

Pays for High severity events that are low frequency

Here is a breakdown of how managed care employer tied insurance(modern insurance works or doesn't work):

Pays for high severity events that are low severity but also low severity events that are high frequency.

Basically insurance as a model is supposed to only finance very severe but rare events. That's how insurance works. Modern insurance that is employer tied pays for(and not by the choice of individuals like myself) many different procedures and medications that fall under a low severity/high frequency model. Which from a traditional insurance model standpoint(the only kind of insurance model that works from an actuarial perspective) is not doable without government intervention. As with most arguments involving health insurance, we will be here all day and it is vital that you read very thoroughly these sites before commenting again as it will waste both of our time:

Traditional health insurance is known as "Traditional Indemnity" which essentially means that you buy a policy just like any other type of insurance that has a deductible of around 5k or so. The insurance only really pays for catastrophes and you the consumer are responsible for maintaining an account to cover the deductible.

Managed Care(Health Maintenance Organization) is a type of insurance written into law that requires that insurance pay for everything(ball snipping, Viagra, now sometimes birth control). It is also a type of insurance offered by most if not all large employers that completely removes people from the process of buying the plans. In other words, it is the employers who choose whether or not a plan is chosen. In my case, it was either pay for plan or be fired. The employer required participation in their plan or one similar due to liability.


Most importantly:

www.comedsoc.org...

reply to post by Nephalim


These kinds of questions make it obvious why the average person has no business decided what's good for other people.

try to explain to them why you couldnt decide at or before 20 weeks to keep or abort?

OMG, are you ever obtuse!

These types of problems don't surface and aren't detectable before 20 weeks. Late term abortions aren't for women who "can't decide". These women wanted their pregnancies, but for health reasons had to have them terminated.

windword
reply to post by Nephalim

 

These kinds of questions make it obvious why the average person has no business decided what's good for other people.

try to explain to them why you couldnt decide at or before 20 weeks to keep or abort?

OMG, are you ever obtuse!

These types of problems don't surface and aren't detectable before 20 weeks. Late term abortions aren't for women who "can't decide". These women wanted their pregnancies, but for health reasons had to have them terminated.

I'm not being obtuse intentionally. I thought everyone had been through this twenty week issue already though. And I recall me, specifically talking about this happening, even referring to it as a reality. It sounds as if your implying that a Doctor would intentionally let you or your baby die or something after twenty weeks if you had complications. I dont believe any doctor would do that. So your point only confuses me.

OrphanApology
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Managed care insurance has been in law since Nixon signed the health maintenance organization act of 1973.

I dont need a breakdown of how insurance works lol. God I cant get them out of my emails as it is. Gotta love those spam buttons. Thanks though. Sorry I didn't get to read your link earlier. I'm picky about the information I view when it links me directly to people with criminal histories. Specifically Presidents or representatives of the people because sometimes, their criminal actions destroy any bit of credibility the US Government has (particularly when it comes to passing LAWS) and it makes things harder on everyone working in Government down the line. Excuse my ignorance on Nixon of all people. I will read it tonight.

My point still stands though mam. No one can nor should have the ability to force you to buy anything, nor pay for anything you don't want to pay for and they should not have the power to penalize you for it. Matter of fact, I may just write my reps, all of them and suggest a law (maybe even an amendment of right) that says something along those lines.

Now, if you sign the form, that's your right to privacy in action-between you and your provider. I'm not doing anything I don't feel is right for me, LAW or not, that's my business and my choice. Choice is also NO. Not just yes and yes. That's also a reality. What do you want me to do? It is literally not my fault or anyone elses that some goofball signed crap like that into law? right? It sounds like we're on the same side here.

reply to post by Nephalim

I'm not being obtuse intentionally. I thought everyone had been through this twenty week issue already though. And I recall me, specifically talking about this happening, even referring to it as a reality. It sounds as if your implying that a Doctor would intentionally let you or your baby die or something after twenty weeks if you had complications. I dont believe any doctor would do that. So your point only confuses me.

There are only a few states that do late term abortions.

The Guttmacher brief notes that:

37 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy.
24 states initiate prohibitions at fetal viability.
5 states initiate prohibitions in the third trimester.
8 states initiate prohibitions after a certain number of weeks, generally 24.
The circumstances under which procedures are permitted after that point vary from state to state. For example:

29 states permit abortions to preserve the life or health of the woman;
4 states permit abortions to save the life or health of the woman, but use a narrow definition of health;
4 states permit abortions only to save the life of the woman.
rhrealitycheck.org...

The United States allows each state to make certain restrictions on late-term, or in this case post-viability, abortions. Due to these rights granted to the states, 36 states outright ban any late-term abortions that are not to save the life of the mother.

Woman have to make arrangements and travel to destinations that permit late term abortions. They do so when and if they find that their fetus has a terrible birth defect that will result in painful suffering for all parties involved.

When Dana Weinstein talks about her second child, she refers to her "angel baby." In the summer of 2009, with a 2 1/2-year-old son and a daughter on the way, the Weinsteins were looking forward to completing their family. Then tragedy struck. After a sonogram 29 weeks into her pregnancy, Weinstein learned her daughter's brain hadn't formed properly and that the baby would face severe health and mental problems, if it survived at all. Several weeks later, she made the painful decision to end the pregnancy before "Baby W" was born. Now Weinstein fears that if Republican legislators around the country succeed in banning abortions after 20 weeks, many women in similar situations will no longer have the option that she did.
www.motherjones.com...

However, in the 20th week of her pregnancy she was told, "It looks as if the boy has a herniated diaphragm.” A subsequent MRI showed the child's internal organs were not developing properly.

According to a 2007 study, unborn children with a congenital herniated diaphram have a 69 percent survival rate. Those with severe issues have a 57 percent survival rate.

She opted to abort and, although she refers to herself as “an old-school liberal” and “not religious,” she said her Catholic husband agreed with her decision.

She described the abortion, writing: "I felt my son’s budding life end as a doctor inserted a needle through my belly into his tiny heart."

"As horrible as that moment was — it will live with me forever — I am grateful," she concluded. "We made sure our son was not born only to suffer. He died in a warm and loving place, inside me."
www.lifesitenews.com...

reply to post by windword


So you weigh it out, intentional abortion passed 20 weeks vs complications. Why is it that states can be reasonable about it, but you cant see it? All the state of Texas has said and to this day maintains is that if you're going to go through the issues, you shouldnt have to deal with this. Tell me you agree with that? What person would do that and say oh well its my choice its none of your business.

My god. You want that happening to women and children here? How about anywhere in the US? I respect womens choice. I don't respect, nor do I have to support legalized human butchery.