OBAMACARE is a Deliberate Planned Suicide Attack on America

This coming month, most employer-sponsored health insurance plans will be entering the open enrollment period where employees get to select their coverage for the coming year. It will be interesting to observe the reactions to the new coverage and premiums being offered.

"If you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it." my butt.

And you thought the couple hours of EBT being down caused disruption???

Krazysh0t
reply to post by noturdadsdeepthroat

 

Seriously, STOP BLAMING THE REPUBLICANS FOR OBAMA'S MISHAPS. We are in Obama's FIFTH year now. The Republicans are so far removed from Obama's decisions and outcomes of said decisions at this point that they are practically irrelevant. Not ONE Republican voted for Obamacare, yet it passed. The WHOLE boondogle can be laid at the Democrats', especially Obama's, feet.

I'm seriously getting sick of hearing Democrats blaming everyone but themselves for their failures. Obama is the worst of the lot, the man cannot accept any blame and will throw his own people under the bus at the drop of a dime if it can save his political career. How anyone cannot see this after 5 consecutive years of doing this for EVERY. LITTLE. THING. is willfully blind.

You won't comment on the fact your party has been systematically sabotaging Obama even though his policies are something that you agreed on when they were suggested by your own party!

Turning him into a socialist won't distract the intelligent that somewhere down the line Obama fell out of favor with some group (NWO, New World Order) and now even though the country is in a spiral no republicans will lift a finger to do anything constructive to help us out. Good of the "approved" > good of the masses.

And its funny because people within your own party have no problem admitting that Bush is the problem for current Republican dysfunction www.theamericanconservative.com...

Obama is the scape goat right wing hidden agenda members need to get back into power

reply to post by xuenchen


one of the main policies in the bill are that no one can be denied coverage. so this is null and void

a suicide plan..... would not be a sustainable working model...but it is a close enough model to call it that



~~(in my view of Øbama-Nomics... this regimes thinking is something like :)

By radically changing the past American model of growth, gaining wealth & possessions, investiong in One's own future to leave a modest legacy to your family members and enjoy a better standard of living ....


is now an unsustainable (and Unfair) economic model
.... Unfair to the rest of the world,
Americans have long had access to underpriced oil and various resources the rest of the world envies...



the new Normal has switched from a Credit Expansion economy
---------------------------------------into a Debt-Debit reliant economic system


there are numberous reasons, such as....
Americans being spoiled and having exceptional opportunity just galls most of the underdeveloped world
... so the WH is engaged in a policy of bringing the U.S. down-a-notch-or-two


having most of the voters dependent on welfare, food, pre-school/after-school services, HHS required RXs...

eventually leading to the unfortunates in society that have already used up their welfare 'debits'
to have to enter the macabre outgrowth of Øbamascare where one can pre-sell their organs for more welfare/entitlement 'debits'... to then receive their monthly allotment of food and sustinence, 0bamaphones, etc


(stash-hoard silver coins for your ability to be active in the underground/black market economy)

noturdadsdeepthroat
reply to post by xuenchen

 

one of the main policies in the bill are that no one can be denied coverage. so this is null and void

How so ?

People that can now get a policy will still have to pay down the deductibles.

Bankruptcies are imminent.

reply to post by xuenchen


yeah but insurance companies can no longer deny coverage... if they can't deny coverage than they will make less money this flow of cash from the lower class into the pockets of the wealthy doesn't exist. In addition the fact that everyone must opt in to an insurance plan means that companies can no longer inflate prices to adjust for adverse selection and free riders who will sign up only if they get sick. these policies keep insurance companies in check, they don't give them more power.

Government subsidies prevent bankruptcy, or should significantly decrease the amount of bankruptcy. Thats where the money goes... not into any one elses pockets

There is no more 'middle class'. It was extinguished when our industrial plant was shipped to China. All the jobs and all the factories that used to create revenue for this nation by way of taxes? Gone and we are now broke.

Obamacare was initially supposed to have what was called a 'public option' that would have given people the choice of buying from private insurance corporations or from the government. But this was quickly tossed because... well, even though we know government blows chunks when it comes to doing much of anything, the insurance industry knew the government could under-price them. The reason is very clear - government wouldn't be out to make huge profits so the cost would, of course, be less.

The outcome is that... by routing Obamacare through the private sector and taking into consideration that there are profit margins that MUST be realized, the cost is going to be astronomical.
Every doctor visit will be the price that goes to your physician, the cost for paying his/her staff, the cost of any tests done outside said office, the cost of the private claims handling agency and their own employee payroll, the cost of the insurance company's costs plus whatever they pay their CEO and whatever percentage for profit.

So, this isn't about just paying doctors and nurses and lab techs. This is about supporting a multi-tiered, multi-billion dollar industry.

That's why this Obamacare boondoggle will fail. The nation, less the income from jobs gone away overseas and left to reply on an ever-decreasing full-time job market, will be unable to support the plan based on propping an industry that was already out of reach of a great portion of the population.

12 to 18 months and it will crumble all by itself.

reply to post by noturdadsdeepthroat


My party? I don't remember bringing up or this discussion being about Libertarians. OH WAIT you assumed based on my response to you that I was Republican. Well as we can see first hand, we all know what happens when you assume.

noturdadsdeepthroat
reply to post by xuenchen

 

yeah but insurance companies can no longer deny coverage... if they can't deny coverage than they will make less money this flow of cash from the lower class into the pockets of the wealthy doesn't exist. In addition the fact that everyone must opt in to an insurance plan means that companies can no longer inflate prices to adjust for adverse selection and free riders who will sign up only if they get sick. these policies keep insurance companies in check, they don't give them more power.

Government subsidies prevent bankruptcy, or should significantly decrease the amount of bankruptcy. Thats where the money goes... not into any one elses pockets

edit on 28-10-2013 by noturdadsdeepthroat because: (no reason given)

People will still have to pay down the high deductibles and pay the premiums.

If they run out of money they could be denied medical service.

If they fail to pay the premiums, they could get the policies cancelled.

The law does not require insurance companies or medical providers to give free policies or extend credit terms.

Bankruptcies are imminent.

Not everybody qualifies for subsidies and credits.

Lots of grey area.

(and lack of grey matter too)

reply to post by xuenchen


yeah but people in low income situations (the ones in danger of bankruptcy) do. These people were going to get sick anyway, and without care how do you think they would pay? It comes out of the hospitals money and doctors salaries. Those who receive emergency care and cannot pay go bankrupt anyway and without insurance none of this is covered by an insurance company. Where does this money come from? the taxpayers pockets... you are quick to disparage the affordable health care act but cannot deny that there is a problem that needed to be fixed... so i ask, if you are so full of grey matter how do you go about solving things? or are you like every other republican who is gonna sit back and watch this all "conveniently" combust, even though a couple of years ago you supported it when it was suggested by Mitt Romney? why is it failing when it should have succeeded?

your just putting the good of the party over the good of the country

reply to post by Krazysh0t


libertarian republican it doesn't matter. All im saying is this model was supposed to succeed and now its "conveniently" failing. The party I'm talking about wants you to think Obama is a socialist failure, every other country in the world runs a similar system without bankruptcy or collusion of the elite. learn a little about health care policy, the only ones who stand to lose from obamacare are the ones calling him a socialist. The people and the country will benefit.

take a look behind the scenes, dont be so foolish

Regardless of the who, what, when, great idea for ACA; reports continue to come out that ACA is not what was sold to the Demoncratic Congress or the American people.
www.weeklystandard.com...

One Florida woman is going from paying $54 a month to $591 under Obamacare, CBS reports

Next year as more is found out about the bill that had to be passed to see what was inside is known it may get even more interesting.

reply to post by noturdadsdeepthroat


First off your ignorance is showing. There is a BIG difference between Republicans and Libertarians. I don't like Republicans any more than I like the Democrats. Just because we happen to be allied on this issue is no excuse to write us off as the same enemy. This is straight up partisan bias showing here. You WRONGLY assume that the only people who are opposed to this bill are Republicans trying to sabotage Obama's presidency. That is ridiculous.

Second off, who is this bill supposed to benefit? People with pre-existing conditions? People below the poverty line? Well in order to insure these people, a price needs to be paid. Since they aren't paying it, someone else needs to. Guess who gets the bill. The healthy, young middle class. Me. I looked at my rates if I were to sign up. I'd have to pay $100 more than I pay now and have a $5000 deductible (my company pays for it now). So if I'd sign up for Obamacare, I'd have a more expensive plan that I'd be unable to use anyways (I don't have $5000 sitting around yearly to spend on health care). Obama has stated that 7 million people need to enroll in Obamacare for it to be fiscally solvent. Disregarding the government's abysmal track record on predicting financial solvency, with all the sticker shock like mine going on in the country; who do you expect will sign up for Obamacare besides the pre-existing condition and below the poverty line people?

Another get example of the failure of this bill, there are THOUSANDS of people being told their policies are ending and are being told they have to go on the exchanges. This despite Obama clearly stating that if you like your current health insurance plan, you can keep it. So there is a lie he has been caught saying.

You really need to pull your head out of Obama's ass. He isn't the savior he paints himself out to be. For instance, EVERY failure that comes to light about Obamacare can be laid DIRECTLY at his feet. Not a single Republican voted for this monstrosity and they have tried to repeal it on many occasions. Obama owns this bill whether he likes it or not.

One more thing, if you honestly believe there is some sort of NWO conspiracy out there, to deny that the Democrats are involved is probably the DUMBEST thing I've seen someone say that believes this conspiracy theory. The NWO wouldn't be idiotic enough to only co-opt one of the two political parties. You need to separate yourself from the two major political parties if you want to take part in some serious conspiracy theory talk, because everything you've suggested so far is making you look foolish. For instance, I can answer my original question about who will benefit from this bill. In fact they will probably be the sole beneficiaries. The answer is health insurance companies. They are seeing record profits that are 200 - 300% higher than before. If Obama wanted to fix our healthcare system, involving the health insurance companies was literally the LAST thing he should have done. Heck I can extrapolate many benefits the NWO will receive all thanks to the Democrats and this stupid bill, but whatever keep blaming the Republicans. The NWO divide and conquer technique they like to use is working brilliantly on you.

Obarrycare, brought to you by your loving sponsors: Cloward and Piven and Agenda 21

Seriously, if people out there still aren't getting that Obarrycare is INTENDED to destroy the economy, well--that's just the public "education" system at work, brought to you by Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

noturdadsdeepthroat
reply to post by xuenchen

 

yeah but people in low income situations (the ones in danger of bankruptcy) do. These people were going to get sick anyway, and without care how do you think they would pay? It comes out of the hospitals money and doctors salaries. Those who receive emergency care and cannot pay go bankrupt anyway and without insurance none of this is covered by an insurance company. Where does this money come from? the taxpayers pockets... you are quick to disparage the affordable health care act but cannot deny that there is a problem that needed to be fixed... so i ask, if you are so full of grey matter how do you go about solving things? or are you like every other republican who is gonna sit back and watch this all "conveniently" combust, even though a couple of years ago you supported it when it was suggested by Mitt Romney? why is it failing when it should have succeeded?

your just putting the good of the party over the good of the country

Most bankruptcies are well into the middle class.

Too much debt.

A new study by Elizabeth Warren, Harvard Law School Leo Gottlieb professor of law, and Deborah Thorne, Ohio University associate professor of sociology, finds that personal bankruptcy has become a largely middle-class phenomenon led by filers who are college-educated and owners of homes. According to the study, "The Vulnerable Middle Class: Bankruptcy and Class Status," the shift occurred even before the Great Recession.

More than 100,000 middle-class families filed for personal bankruptcy every month in 2007, says the report, which was provided to USA TODAY but will be released in a book next year. Those who filed in 2007 were in worse financial shape than those who had filed in 2001.

More members of middle class file for bankruptcy

Health insurance deductibles are thousands of dollars.

And not every single medical expense is covered either.

Bankruptcies are imminent.

In 2007, medical problems and expenses contributed to nearly two-thirds of all bankruptcies in the United States, a jump of nearly 50 percent from 2001, new research has found.

Since the data used in the study were collected prior to the current economic downturn, it's likely that the current rate of medical-related bankruptcies is even higher, said the researchers at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University.

They randomly surveyed 2,314 bankruptcy filers in early 2007 and found that 77.9 percent of those bankrupted by medical problems had health insurance at the start of the bankrupting illness, including 60 percent who had private coverage.

Medical Bills Driving Most Middle-Class Bankruptcies

Emergency care is not the problem.

so i ask, if you are so full of grey matter how do you go about solving things?

It ain't up to me is it.

I asked the same question ...... and wondered why Democrats who had full control in 2009 didn't do something different.

What do you think they should have done ?

Or are you 100% in support of the PPACA being the best solution ?

[careful, don't show your cards]

Krazysh0t
reply to post by noturdadsdeepthroat

 

First off your ignorance is showing. There is a BIG difference between Republicans and Libertarians. I don't like Republicans any more than I like the Democrats. Just because we happen to be allied on this issue is no excuse to write us off as the same enemy. This is straight up partisan bias showing here. You WRONGLY assume that the only people who are opposed to this bill are Republicans trying to sabotage Obama's presidency. That is ridiculous.

Second off, who is this bill supposed to benefit? People with pre-existing conditions? People below the poverty line? Well in order to insure these people, a price needs to be paid. Since they aren't paying it, someone else needs to. Guess who gets the bill. The healthy, young middle class. Me. I looked at my rates if I were to sign up. I'd have to pay $100 more than I pay now and have a $5000 deductible (my company pays for it now). So if I'd sign up for Obamacare, I'd have a more expensive plan that I'd be unable to use anyways (I don't have $5000 sitting around yearly to spend on health care). Obama has stated that 7 million people need to enroll in Obamacare for it to be fiscally solvent. Disregarding the government's abysmal track record on predicting financial solvency, with all the sticker shock like mine going on in the country; who do you expect will sign up for Obamacare besides the pre-existing condition and below the poverty line people?

Another get example of the failure of this bill, there are THOUSANDS of people being told their policies are ending and are being told they have to go on the exchanges. This despite Obama clearly stating that if you like your current health insurance plan, you can keep it. So there is a lie he has been caught saying.

You really need to pull your head out of Obama's ass. He isn't the savior he paints himself out to be. For instance, EVERY failure that comes to light about Obamacare can be laid DIRECTLY at his feet. Not a single Republican voted for this monstrosity and they have tried to repeal it on many occasions. Obama owns this bill whether he likes it or not.

One more thing, if you honestly believe there is some sort of NWO conspiracy out there, to deny that the Democrats are involved is probably the DUMBEST thing I've seen someone say that believes this conspiracy theory. The NWO wouldn't be idiotic enough to only co-opt one of the two political parties. You need to separate yourself from the two major political parties if you want to take part in some serious conspiracy theory talk, because everything you've suggested so far is making you look foolish. For instance, I can answer my original question about who will benefit from this bill. In fact they will probably be the sole beneficiaries. The answer is health insurance companies. They are seeing record profits that are 200 - 300% higher than before. If Obama wanted to fix our healthcare system, involving the health insurance companies was literally the LAST thing he should have done. Heck I can extrapolate many benefits the NWO will receive all thanks to the Democrats and this stupid bill, but whatever keep blaming the Republicans. The NWO divide and conquer technique they like to use is working brilliantly on you.

edit on 28-10-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

Well said.

The ACA does not address the actual reasons why Health Care is so expensive.

reply to post by bigdaveyl

The ACA does not address the actual reasons why Health Care is so expensive.

I can add to that...

Healthcare and medical expenses are often *priced* according to standards set by the insurance companies.

The price reflects what insurance companies will pay, not necessarily what patients can afford to pay.

Insurance companies set policy premium prices on what the market (patients) will pay.

It's unbalanced and does not represent free market supply/demand ratios.

I read the article and while he has a few points that I can agree with, he is way off on his idea that Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth of America to poor Democrat voters.

Another red flag is the "Marxist" comment. No Marxist socialism going on around here....its all fascism baby.

So I spend out of pocket around $700 a year in medical bills for 4 people and I'm exaggerating, last year was less than $400, but this year I had to put more vaccines to my daughter, this is for (2) Adults and (2) Kids this covers (vaccines, normal cold and flu, ear infections, kids yearly check ups etc.) Just the normal medical visits with prescriptions. NO mayor medical services. Thats $700-$800 A YEAR......... Now with Obama Care my decent to crap insurance that I qualify is over $600 A MONTH for my family of four..... that's $7,200 a yearrrrrrr compared to to only $700-$800 a year.

Do you think I'm going to pay $600+ a month for health insurance for me and my family and still have to pay co-pays etc.???........NO THANK YOU, I prefer to pay the fee at the end of the year to IRS and save the rest for a big medical emergency.

sheepslayer247
I read the article and while he has a few points that I can agree with, he is way off on his idea that Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth of America to poor Democrat voters.

Another red flag is the "Marxist" comment. No Marxist socialism going on around here....its all fascism baby.

Two parts of the "re-distribution" are the subsidies and tax credits.

Subsidies are only available to people who buy on an exchange (I think).

And, Medicaid expansions (and some Medicare) are also part of "re-distribution".

All are funded by people who pay more in taxes than the receivers pay.