Originally posted by Cactus

*Sniff, sniff*..I smell some serious bull# I.C, and itīs coming from you, or should I just refer to you as Bob?

Bob, obviously your strong side isnīt to sum up anybodys post. Wether it is because you are to busy lying to yourself, or if it depends on the fact that you are a selfworshipping little prick, only the future will tell?

The only thing your posts contains are contradictions, and a will to dominate (yes dominate, not help) others. The problem with that perticular fact Bob seems to be that the only one in here open for manipulation is you, probably because of the large Dopamin coctail your brain is sucking up this very minute, or perhaps it is serotoni this time?

Bob, you seem to be a person wich is caught somewhere between hope and despair, that is not very healthy, in the long run, it can actually make you go insane, but something tells me you have been there once allready.
Maby you should try to print your posts, place yourself infront of a mirror and read your posts out loud to yourself, and while you are doing that, try to face yourself, try to look into your own eyes.

The main difference between you and me, is that I donīt need to lie to myself to be able to look myself in the mirror every morning when I wake up. I donīt need any man made religion telling me that Im special, to feel special, And maby thatīs why you seem to have such a difficulty to read my posts, always skipping the 20 most important lines.

Cheers Bob!
Cactus

Catcus, you've commended me for my tolerance a few times now. Why is that only I should be tolerant? You see the main problem with you, is that when someone with the utter most respect, deals with your incessant moanings, you just take advantage of their politeness. That is because you have no concept of respect, politeness, peace or compassion. It was clear from your first post, you were here only to slam us Indigos, because your own world does not match our own, which must mean we are lying and are brainwashing people into a cult. Whatever floats your boat.

I tried to help you by dealing with each of your concerns, and you are showng your frustration now that you have no more left, but the bile.

I don't think its a stretch to say, that judging from your pessmism of everything, including pessimism of being a positive human being, that you are living in your own hell. I tried to help you. You don't want it. Fair enough. Enjoy.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Actually I have alot more appreciation for life because of my beliefs. I am unsure why you would think science diminshes the value of life.. it doesn't.. it just takes a closer look cos it's so bloody fascinating.

It has always been fascinating for me, even before any concepts of science or god. You are a product of your beliefs and attitudes to life, and if you believe you are nothing more than dust, and that you evolved from dust, and you become dust and a freak accident of chemical reactions. If you believe life is nothing more than "survival of the fittest" and life is nothing more than hierarchy and analysing the world. It affects who you are.

At the end of the day your existence becomes absolutely irrelavant. For all you are, are far less than a nano second in space-time. All you see yourself as, is the physical organism that you are, an infinitesimal spec in the universe. Nothing you did, mattered, and nothing you are doing now, matters.

These are the beliefs that we are indoctrinated into, and the results of which, are evident for all to see. When people live in godless realities, and believe themselves to be nothing but machines, the value of life is undermined. This is why today, people do no flinch if someone dies, for it all becomes is a statistic. Do you have any idea how many billions have been killed by these kinds of justifcations?

Was it the Nazi justification, that jews are an inferior species, so it does not matter if we dispose of them. If you want to believe you are nothing more than a profit or loss to someone, and that you are a machine that is going to malfunction, then you can do so at your own minds peril.
It is these kinds of shared delusions by human society that are leading to it's self-destruction.

I said: I am not sure how you can you are spiritual, without recognizing the spirit in spiritual.

You said: Huh?

Spirituality is a belief in the soul, disembodied consciosness and a god force. You say you are being "highly spiritual" but you do not recognize the spirit in spirituality or a god-force.

Rather, you are doing what you accuse religions of doing. You are forming your own gods and ways of life. Where instead of the soul, it's "energy" and instead of god, it's "science" and are marketing that in a very pretentious divine way I am not buying, that's for sure

My mind is scientific, logical, experimental and imaginative.. I just don't centre my sprirituality around 'maybe' without substance.. I just accept that there are answers I don't know.. and answers no-one may ever know.. but I am certain they're there. [The questions on the other hand are a completely different story.]

Nope.. You learn life through experience. Not through science. When you have a vision, a dream or sense others auras, you are not doing it by the scientific method, you are experiencing it. Nor does your imagination or dreams obey science. Nor does the universe obey science.

Why do you obey science?

That is just propoganda to lobby support from people. This is not a religious war. This is a war motivated by power and greed.

All holy wars have been fought for power and greed.. so how isn't it a holy war? Also.. using the debates in the religion section as a small example of how divisive it is.. and the kids who strap explosives to their bodies to kill people.. do you really think religion is all that healthy?

Correction: All wars are fought for power and greed. All you are doing is playing the blaming game, and instead of taking responsibility, you are blaming some external entity. If I started playing, I could easily say, by science we have created WMD's and are poisoning the earth, hence science must be evil. Fortunately, I'm a little wiser than that.

Science is a tool.. but religion provides a motive with power. If people didn't believe.. taht power would be gone.

A motive can come from anything. If I not mistaken, one of the motives of this ugly war In iraw, was WMD - a creation of science. Another motive is "oil" needed as fuel for a lot of things created by science.

Wow. I didn't know Christianity phased out the old testimant.

Does that mean you cannot find anything Jesus said that can justify war.

You could always look at life on it's own without the god safety net. You might be surprised.. it may at first feel as though it makes life seem trivial or unimportant.. but you may get a better idea of what it actually is and have a renewed perspective of it.

A murderous and war torn society looks the same from every perspective.
God, or the creator, is not a safety net, he's a truth. For I have to answer the question: "How am I?" and "Where am I from" and I have no answer. So I seek the answers, and I seek within, and I experience him. I have actually experienced God.

You seek them from science, using a method that returns a paradox. As I said, you apply logic, and render reality illogical, which is illogical itself. Change your approach, and it might start to make sense.

It's a theory. A primitive conciousness may have been developed to help with survival. A conciousness allows us to think and make basic decisons.

Everything is a theory and you have a faith in this theory. So how does that differ from creation theories?

I think thats true with all uni [or college] students. These people who profess to know it all only do themselves a disservice as there are always more answers. It's like climbing a mountain and deciding you have reached the peak when you're only half way up because you're too tired to admit defeat.

It's true with a lot of scientists who follow scientific doctrines. Remember, these college students, are being taught this by the system. I was told by my physics lecturer that my interest in the paranormal, was delusional, then I did not even believe in it, I was just interested in it. They are the fundementalists of scientific religion. Again, not much different from other religions.

Whichever way you slice, science as it is today is a religion. This is because this society is spiritually retarded. Everything, science, religion, the rugrats, will be abused and twisted for our, oh so cherishable ideals, of greed, hate, ignorance and selfishness.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Bob:

It may seem to you as I am here only to make your life misserable, but I can assure thatīs definitly not what Im doing. I just verbally grabbed hold of your shoulders and shaked some sense into you. If I disliked you or wanted to cause you pain thatīs not what I would be doing. Im simply here to tell you the truth.

The truth is that our race stagnated during the beginning of todays still existing religious beliefs, and that somewhere Lee Caroll and Jan Tober are squeling with joy because of all the green bucks they are making by selling their books about Indigo Bobs, crystall children, and Ascended charlatans . The point that they have the opinion "Self-worth is not a big issue" doesnīt surprise me, and it shouldnīt suprise you either.

I feel sorry that those maggots are making money out of peoples soulfull Dopamin kicks, and I can promise you that once in a while they share a mild giggle because they have succeded to create a mix of truths and untruths in a perfectly baked compott to suit the Serotoni overloaded man and woman of todays society. It makes me go to be honest.

Canīt you see, that by changing a label you donīt change the contents of the bottle?, wether you call yourself an I.C or Bob or whatever. If you had a dog wich you named "dog with a capital D", and than the dog suddenly dies and you buy a cat, and you than name the cat "Dog with a capital D", is doesnīt make the cat a dog does it? A bottle doesnīt get a new content just because you change the label.

Instead of being "Bob" you changed the label to I.C, but a label doesnīt change the contents. Maby you should try to look a little closer at the contents of the bottle and not stare yourself blind at the label?

Donīt worry about that you wished me a personall hell, I can take that.

Cheers:
Cactus

Cactus, the first respectful and intelligent thing you can do, is call me by my handle. Otherwise, I am not obliged to talk to you. I am only talking to you, because you are spouting rubbish and it needs to be shown for what it is, and that is rubbish.

Religion is not the root of evil. This is very backwards thinking and it sounds like you have some personal issues, and I would rather not get involved with them.

If you have actually bothered to read what I have posted. The Indigo label, is just a label, for who I am. For instance you are human, and your labels are "human" "male or female" "age" "nationality" "ethnic origin" you are not conforming to labals, neither am I. You have already put a labal on yourself, that conforms to you, and that is cactus, a plant in a secluded and dry land, that has a lot of thorns, and nobody wants to touch.

If there is danger somewhere, we label it with "danger" if something is poisonous, we labal it "poisonous" you have already garnered a few labals from me "pessimistic" and "troubeled" and if one were to read your posts, they would not half disagree with me.

Please, save me your truth. I don't need it. I am happy as I am, and nor I under any delusions like "I am not part of the collective consciousness" you need help, mate.

Further, I did not wish hell on you. You are already in it. Whether I reply to your next dose of venom, or not, is my choice. It seems I may not need too, as everyone of your posts, seems like self-mutilation.

Peace(you need it)

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Oh, so you arenīt the next step in evolution after all?
By loweing yourself to that level you just proved my point, that you are as norm-human and fragile as the rest of us. You are not obligied to talk to me, and you have not been obligied to do so at all. Nor do you have to make excuses for yourself for answering my posts, because it doesnīt really change anything.

have already put a labal on yourself, that conforms to you, and that is cactus, a plant in a secluded and dry land, that has a lot of thorns, and nobody wants to touch.

Or maybe I just took the nickname Cactus because it doesn`t say anything about ---"human" "male or female" "age" "nationality" "ethnic origin". But I guess you missed that one.


If there is danger somewhere we labal it with "danger".
Yes I hear you, but what I meant was- if we change the sign to "no danger here" it doesnīt mean that the very place isnīt dangerous anymore just because we switched the sign. There is really no use for you to use my metaphors if you donīt understand them.

if one were to read your posts, they would not half disagree with me.

It actually couldnīt bother me less what of others think of me, for the very same reason I donīt need a man made religion to tell me Im special, to feel special. People who deserves respect, getīs respect, but they people doesnīt get respect for their labels, but for what they do.

under any delusions like "I am not part of the collective consciousness"

Actually, what I said was "A part of me will probably always be a part of the collective consiousness, but the larger part of my brain never will be, and I will explain why. ” And so I did, Im sorry if that scared you.

Further, I did not wish hell on you. You are already in it. Whether I reply to your next dose of venom, or not, is my choice.

Oh, so this is your enlighted karma that is peeping out? Wasnīt I suppose to hear words sounding like poetry or something when an I.C speaks? If thatīs a fact I think you have a few more rounds of incarnation still to go.

Peace(you need it)

I think we all need peace.

Instead of lowering myself to a hatefull level, I sincerly wish you Good Luck, happiness for you and your kin, wether they are I.C or not. May you live long and may the sun always shine wherever you go.

Cheers:
Cactus

Originally posted by Cactus
Oh, so you arenīt the next step in evolution after all?
By loweing yourself to that level you just proved my point, that you are as norm-human and fragile as the rest of us. You are not obligied to talk to me, and you have not been obligied to do so at all. Nor do you have to make excuses for yourself for answering my posts, because it doesnīt really change anything.

*Sigh* I don't remember ever claiming not to be human and fragile. I do remember saying I have an intolerance for stuidity. I don't know what you read, but it's not what I write. Take care.

Edit: I am not responding any further to you. I think I've already wasted my time and energy enough on you. When sense does not prevail, it is better to leave such people at their devices. You came as a troll, you trolled, and now are trolling your way back.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

I.C..

I said .." that you are as NORM-human and fragile as the rest of us." ...
A hot tip, read whole posts before you post your reply, take care you too my friend.

Cheers:
Cactus

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If you believe life is nothing more than "survival of the fittest" and life is nothing more than hierarchy and analysing the world. It affects who you are.

I'm fine with who I am.

At the end of the day your existence becomes absolutely irrelavant. For all you are, are far less than a nano second in space-time. All you see yourself as, is the physical organism that you are, an infinitesimal spec in the universe. Nothing you did, mattered, and nothing you are doing now, matters.

I think therefore I am. My existance validates itself.

These are the beliefs that we are indoctrinated into, and the results of which, are evident for all to see. When people live in godless realities, and believe themselves to be nothing but machines, the value of life is undermined.

Machines are not capable of reflection and philosophy. We don't need to believe in 'god' to make us special.. it's a choice. And I don't need 'god' to qualify my existance. I have that security within myself.

This is why today, people do no flinch if someone dies, for it all becomes is a statistic. Do you have any idea how many billions have been killed by these kinds of justifcations?

Opposed to relgions which justify death with righeteusness anyway.. or denograte the value of life with 'they were unsaveable anyway'? I care about life.. self preservation includes self preservation of the species. The two don't rule out eachother.. they are dependant on eachother.

Was it the Nazi justification, that jews are an inferior species, so it does not matter if we dispose of them.

Actually they were culled not only for their race but for their religion. If they were dead it meant germans could be 'god's' chosen.

Spirituality is a belief in the soul, disembodied consciosness and a god force. You say you are being "highly spiritual" but you do not recognize the spirit in spirituality or a god-force.

I already said I believe in 'energy' if I medidate I am connecting/evolveing awareness of and with it.

Rather, you are doing what you accuse religions of doing. You are forming your own gods and ways of life. Where instead of the soul, it's "energy" and instead of god, it's "science" and are marketing that in a very pretentious divine way I am not buying, that's for sure

I don't have 'god' or gods plural. I've already said that energy can't be contained.. their a different frequencies but are all connected.. I just 'feel' them.. but I don't consider it 'god'.

Nor does your imagination or dreams obey science. Nor does the universe obey science.

Where is your proof that the universe doesn't follow science?

Correction: All wars are fought for power and greed. All you are doing is playing the blaming game, and instead of taking responsibility, you are blaming some external entity. If I started playing, I could easily say, by science we have created WMD's and are poisoning the earth, hence science must be evil. Fortunately, I'm a little wiser than that.

Most wars throughout history have had a 'relgious' element.. and as I've already said before science has never been used as a moitive for war.. relgion has.

A motive can come from anything. If I not mistaken, one of the motives of this ugly war In iraw, was WMD - a creation of science. Another motive is "oil" needed as fuel for a lot of things created by science.

Yes.. AFTER president bush had included it in 'The axis of evil.' ..and after announcing that he is doing 'god's work'.

Does that mean you cannot find anything Jesus said that can justify war.

What?! Christians ..when they want t be 'nice' follow Jesus.. if they want to be nasty they over-ride Jesus' word by using the old testimant. If you remember I already answered this question and provided you the doctrine to support this from the OT [and new] in out last converstaion. Apparently you didn't read it.

I have actually experienced God.

How nice for you.. I suppose you are going to tell us you are His prophet or messenger now?

Everything is a theory and you have a faith in this theory. So how does that differ from creation theories?

My theory would change if I were presented with another one based of facts.. faith.. it wouldn't matter how many facts are presented people will still believe in even the bloody tooth fairy if they need to.
It differs from silly crestion theories because there is evidence of evolution.

Whichever way you slice, science as it is today is a religion.

Religion cetres are around a deity. Do I really have to paste dictionary defintions for you?

This is because this society is spiritually retarded. Everything, science, religion, the rugrats, will be abused and twisted for our, oh so cherishable ideals, of greed, hate, ignorance and selfishness.

This from one of your earlier posts:

Sometimes, to understand our values of love and peace, we need war. We need that war to defeat the darker side of our kind. To bring light to darkness.

Justifying death is not enlightened.. quite the opposite.

There so many ignorant, selfish, cold and mechanical people today, that are sucked in a blackhole of self-absorbtion, greed and hate. No one can save them. Some of them are beyond any hope of change. They are holding us back. So creation, has it's ways of harmonizing. Some may call this punishment for them. Or judgement day. Yeah, you could call it at that.

See.. without religion.. there would be no expendable 'unsaved', no judgement day and no 'divine glory' to feed your ego. Sounds like greed, vanity and self-absorbtion to me.

riley!

That post you just made was a very, very good post, I will keep an eye open for your future posts, my hat is of to you

Cheers:
Cactus

Why thankyou Cactus!

You don't seem thorny at all.. I'm comforted to know that at least someone understands where I'm coming from.

Not sure about the other six billion though..

Chill guys

Dont need to make this into a personal mud slinging contest/Flame war

Quote from Indigo Child

So, who is really to blame for the danger that looms today? Is it God? No. Is it religion? No. Is it us Indigos? No. It is humans. You are to blame for your own actions.

End

I agree that Humans are to blame, however as long as you have been born into a physical Humanic vessle i would class you as human due to that is the physical species you have been born into in a physical universe (however i can understand where they would be certain exceptions)

Also if a "Organic" or an A.I i guess (anything that can think for themselfs) can make their own desisions and relys on physical peramiters, vessles/planets ect (things that can be physicaly destroyed or manipulated) they will always be problems, they can be solved i believe but they will always be a reliability due to them being able to be "manipulated" and have a chain effect

The soul is different from the vessle as the vessle is the casing and people forget this (no offense to anyone who dosnt believe in a soul that is fine with me, as a soul is my own belief )

Also even tho they are a lot of self serving people (such as governments) i believe it is up to the people to solve these porblems and they governments as anyone can complain, but if no one is going to do anything they wont care

After all they are the representatives of Us (usualy chosen by us) even if we dont like how it turns out

If we make mistakes in our jobs we are disaplined for it, however we seem to let them get away with their mistakes even tho they have more "responcibility" than us

[edit on 23-11-2004 by Crash]

[edit on 23-11-2004 by Crash]

I think all that is needed is a brief response:

I'm fine with who I am.

I was not referring to you per "say" I was saying in general, beliefs in such materialist and negative concepts, which are driven by human weakneses, that drive the same immoral wars, moulds the person you are.
Also, believing you are fine as you are, is a universal belief in humans, and no, the world is not fine as it is.

I think therefore I am. My existance validates itself.

That really should be: I think therefore I think I am. Descartes was not thinking properly

However, again this does not invalidate what I said. You are thinking now, the next yocto second in the universe, you think not - so you believe.
Now you maybe fine with the irrelevance of your life in the universe, you maybe fine that your signifiance is no more than a vacuum cleaner per say.

However, most people are not, and it subconsciously manifests as destruction. I have talked many a troubled minds, and they often justify suicide or murder to me, by telling me life is irrelavant anyway. There are many people who deny the existence of god or an afterlife, as a safety mechanism, so that they do not have to hold themselves accountable later.

This is not what I said, this is what an atheist, whose a medical student, told me. I have a wise friend, whose a quasi atheist, but often turns to me and tells me, I don't want to be too sure, if I was wrong, I might screw myself later - and it makes me laugh.

So, perhaps you should take a lesson onboard from my friends, if you are modest and humble enough to do so. Don't be so sure. Meanwhile, in the case of "believers" it does not apply, because whatever the truth is, they still win. I've covered this argument extensively in the "Alien or God" thread.

As far as we are concerned, as humans beings, with no idea of who we are, where have we come from; the book is pretty much wide open.

Machines are not capable of reflection and philosophy. We don't need to believe in 'god' to make us special.. it's a choice. And I don't need 'god' to qualify my existance. I have that security within myself.

You have not been asked to believe in God. You have been asked to believe in yourself. And machines are capable of reflection and philosophy, if you design it to do such. You are being machined when you are educated to think in particular ways.

You are a machine, as long as you let yourself be controlled by your conditioning, circumstances and your brain.

It affects the subconscious mind of an individual, when he is shown in the same way as a machine, because his concept of a machine, is something you can turn on and off. That is what is taught in education.

Again, turning a machine off, makes it much more simple to turn a human off. I am sorry that you don't see what's wrong with that concept.

Opposed to relgions which justify death with righeteusness anyway.. or denograte the value of life with 'they were unsaveable anyway'? I care
about life.. self preservation includes self preservation of the species. The two don't rule out eachother.. they are dependant on eachother.

I, and another member, Lucid Lunacy have told you before, that religion is not just the "christian religion" there is no justifcation for murder in spirituality. However, there is justification for murder in science.

Actually they were culled not only for their race but for their religion. If they were dead it meant germans could be 'god's' chosen.

That is the propoganda that was used, because as said to you earlier, religion can galvanize the peoples by entraining them onto a collective emotion or mindset, and this is done by exploiting and manipulating their emotions with either jingoism or religion. If you look within, you will find that this was just political propaganda to justify Hitlers depopulating initiatives, using the jews as a scape goat. The Jews were only 1/3rd of the total people Hitler killed.

You love to hate religion, so you blame it on all on them, and remain oblivious, intentionally or otherwise, to the root cause. Which is no different from a terrorist who loves to hate his enemy. Forgive me for the pun, but that is not very spiritual of you.

I already said I believe in 'energy' if I medidate I am connecting/evolveing awareness of and with it.

You, and the rest of the world believes in energy. I think the term you are looking for, is you have metaphysical beliefs in a universal force. Rather than "spiritual" which is based on the existence of a soul.

I don't have 'god' or gods plural. I've already said that energy can't be contained.. their a different frequencies but are all connected.. I just 'feel' them.. but I don't consider it 'god'.

I think is a good starting point, that you feel the force. However, your denial and preclusion of certain explanations, is not helping you understand it. All that is in the way; is your own ignoance AND arrogance.

Where is your proof that the universe doesn't follow science?

You ARE and there IS

Science is based on logic, and whatever approach you adopt, you will create a paradox of the most fundamental truths of the universe, it's existence. I have covered this already with you in the other topic.

Most wars throughout history have had a 'relgious' element.. and as I've already said before science has never been used as a moitive for war.. relgion has.

Wrong. Already covered; a political element, not a religious element. As for science never being used as a motive for war. I've already said it, and you've responded to it - Iraq: oil and WMD. Pay attention.

Yes.. AFTER president bush had included it in 'The axis of evil.' ..and after announcing that he is doing 'god's work'.

How scientific is it when you believe in political propaganda blindly? That sounds more like the blind faith of Christianity. I am not surprised that a lot of what you hate is reflected by you.

What?! Christians ..when they want t be 'nice' follow Jesus.. if they want to be nasty they over-ride Jesus' word by using the old testimant. If you remember I already answered this question and provided you the doctrine to support this from the OT [and new] in out last converstaion. Apparently you didn't read it.

No I read it. You see Christianity is based on the teachings of Christ, and that is what I recognize, because I recognize Christ to be a very elevated spiritual person, whose teachings I espouse.

You see, whenever you talk about god, you always make an association to religions, mostly Christianity, and then proceed to use this as a justification to dismiss any god-centered doctrines. Which is the height of ignorance, mind you.

Is that not what you are doing here, because I am suggesting a god-centered consciousness for humanity to advance. I espouse the values of Jesus, so tell me, what is wrong with his teachings? For that is the centre of Christianity.

How nice for you.. I suppose you are going to tell us you are His prophet or messenger now?

Not if you are going to tell me if you are a prophet or a messenger, because you experienced "energy" I have experienced God, only because he is a part of me, and it is a wonderful and fulfilling experience, where I suddenly felt connected to all there is, and felt such immense beauty, love perfection and tears of joy were flowing out of my eyes. In fact it felt like the whole universe was a melody. It lasted only few minutes, happened spontaenously, but I felt touched. That whole day everything was going right for me, the laws of probability were literally bending their way, wherever I walked. I felt that God's light was with me that day. I could sense the brilliance of his light in everything I was doing, from the smile on my face, and from my self-assurance and blazing confidence.

Please, I do not want to hear what you think my experience was. I am just letting you know that I have experienced him, and as far as I am concerned, I know he exists and he is absolutely wonderful, and I hope that everyone could experience him. So it is not a "belief" for me - it's "knowing"

My theory would change if I were presented with another one based of facts.. faith.. it wouldn't matter how many facts are presented people will still believe in even the bloody tooth fairy if they need to.
It differs from silly crestion theories because there is evidence of evolution.

Did you need facts to believe in evolution? Nope, you were taught it in school. Yet, you need facts to believe in creation? I am sorry if I find that funny.

Further, you think creation theories are "silly" but you would rather believe that you were accidentally created from self-assembling dust. We have covered this as well in the other topic. I believe I set you a small task to do too. Have you done it yet?

Whichever way you slice, science as it is today is a religion.

Religion cetres are around a deity. Do I really have to paste dictionary defintions for you?

I would like to paste a dictionary definition for you, because it's obvious you have not looked yourself. Here is one of the definitions:

Religon: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Justifying death is not enlightened.. quite the opposite.

Death is an inevitable truth of the physical existence. In fact, he who can face death, knowing it is not the end, but the beginning of an end, is enlightened. However, you have misunderstood, and primaly because you are processing it through the same thought patterns that are predisposed to the notion that "Religion is evil"

Had you read properly, you would have seen, that I said that the world is nothing more than the manifestation of the collective consciousness, and that all events in it are our own manifestations. So, when our negativity reaches it's extremes, it leads to our destruction. This is a very fundamental law of creation: karma.

Nowhere did I justify murder of anyone. However, I am a human being, and if someone threatens my life, or the life of my loved one, then I will do what is prudent. It was never wrong to fight evil. It never will be. War is sometimes very necessary.

See.. without religion.. there would be no expendable 'unsaved', no judgement day and no 'divine glory' to feed your ego. Sounds like greed, vanity and self-absorbtion to me.

Religion is a man-made invention that offers it's own interpretations of creation. Creation preceeds it, and so do it's laws. This is not a judgement day imposed by god, this is a judgement day imposed by man himself, from his own actions and choices.

You amuse me. Do you think you will not reap what you sow? Do you not think the collective ignorance of society in allowing it's leaders to enslave them and wage wars and genocides all over the globe, is not going to be punished? Then you are more ignorant than I ever thought.

It's your judgement day, and you seem to think "it's all fine" and it is you who will judge yourself for your actions today. Every man has his judgement day, but continues to evade it, until one day when he is on his death bed, he can no longer run from it, and he has to face who he really is, and it is he that then decides his fate. Death can be the most horrible and painful experience of your life. For then, every mistake, every sin you commited, every delusion you harboured, will be replayed for you to see, and if you do not forgive yourself for your sins, you will perish in your own hell of eternal repent and relive the pain every moment of eternity.

Yet, for he that has lived a positive, peaceful and loving life. For he, whose real inner being, was glorious, for him death will be the most spiritual experience of his life, and he will flourish and prosper in his own heaven.

Nothing really changes, it always remains your subjective universe, and is moulded on who you are inside and what you believe. I know a serial killer who was part of a spiritual group I participated in, I did not know him personally though, but I was told about him. After killing so many people and serving time in his hell, he saved himself. He knew what he did was wrong, and he wanted to repent for it, so he started serving other people, helping others, showing them respect and peace and love. He is not the same person anymore. He is a more evolved soul than many people. When he dies, despite all his crimes, he is going to heaven, because that is the state of his mind today - and it is the mind that creates reality.

This is why they say god is all forgiving, in reality they are talking about you, because you are all forgiving, when you can do it, you dispell all your crimes and sins and are reborn as the light that you are.

So I tell anyone, don't condemn yourself to hell, for all you are going to do is regret it. Do you really want to be in pain and suffering for an eternity? Be a peaceful and loving human being, and do yourself a favour, and do us a favour. This does not only make spiritual sense, it makes common sense.

You do not need god, religion, Indigos, prophets, angels, messengers, to tell you this. This is common sense, that you seem to have lost.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Cultivating Your Indigo

I have recieved several U2U's asking me "what to do next" so I'm dedicating this response to answering that.

First and foremost, any innate gift, must be cultivated, otherwise it is useless for you. So you know you have the Indigo gift, now that you know, you begin a new journey of life to find and cultivate your Indigo.

I am doing this, and it may help you too:

1. Resolve all your emotional conflicts. You cannot build a stronger mind on a weak foundation. This may include previous issues of bullying, of ridicule, family problems, psychological dysfunctions like low self-esteem, social anxiety, sexual identity crisis, stress, bipolar.

You must learn to accept yourself, forgive yourself and love yourself. If you blame yourself for what you are today or blame anyone else, you will never make the realisation that you are an Indigo. All this time you have been a prisoner of your mind and circumstances, you were never in control. Now take control of your life.

2. Open your mind to the infinite. Read everything you can and learn about your universe without any judgement, and let your intuition be your guide to the truth. You will assemble a body of true knowledge. I recommend esoteric and spiritual literature.

Take all your beliefs that you have been conditioned with, mentally place them in a rusty box, lock it, throw away the key and then throw away the box. You are going to start anew and this time let your intuition be your guide to the true life knowledge.

I know someone who physically did this. He had many honours degrees, and one day he just set them alight, and this made him happy. I do not recommend you do this by the way.

3. Transform your lifestyle. Design a positive lifestyle for yourself: eat healthy and light(preferably more fruit and vegetable) and seriously consider vegeterianism(I will not impose)

Keep yourself as clean, healthy and as fit as you can, and keep your environments clean, particularly where you spend most of your time. I highly recommend you paint it with more brighter colours that will stimulate and uplift your moods.

Practice positive thinking. Turn of your television, all you will find on it is violence, ignorance, hate, greed, smut and war propaganda being glorified, and further it wastes your time. Rather, watch more positive films, particularly meaningful films with positive uplifting messages for society and that convey family values like "What Dreams May Come" or "AI" which are in my opinion some of the best and imaginative films to have ever been made.

Don't watch violence glorifying, substance impoverished, pretentious commercial garbage like any Tarantino fare, they are nothing but an exercise in self-indulgence and all they do is amplify negative values. This is not to say they do not have artistic or technical merits, they indeed do, but style should never be a substitute for positive substance.

In the same way do not listen to industrial manufactured music, that are nothing but noise, packaging, lousy dancers and horrible lyrics "my milkshake is better than yoursl" or "I want to lick you up or down" or "shake my booty" Do listen to more ambient natural sounds, uplifting and meaningful music and meditation music.

I personally love pure harmonic sound, no impurities, just pure resonant sound that soothes and compliments your own vibration.

Become more creative by doing positive creative things. This can be anything from painting, photography, filmmaking, music, writing and crafts and art. I personally do a lot of writing and film.

A positive life style will awaken your positive consciousness, your Indigo.

4. Take the red pill. We all have goals and dreams which often are weighed down and buried by the chores, social responsibilities, commitments and our needs for entertainment and pleasure, this makes us complacent, lazy, selfish and retards our consciousness. Yes, we do need some socialization, some work and some entertainment, but do not let these temptations become your life, for they are blackholes that suck you in deeper unti you cannot escape. Ask yourself, after a meditation, who do you want to be, what are your dreams. Then devise a plan of action, that becomes your mission in life, and then follow it till you actualise your dreams.

5. Service to others. Try to become more compassionate and loving, and this is not something you can just conjour with a thought, you need to do karma. Physically go out there, and help those who are unfortunate and need your help and do it from your heart and as a selfless act.
Help the poor, the animals and the environment. Giving 10% of your earnings is a good gesture, using 10% of your earnings to personally go out there and help them, is a better gesture, and using 10% of yourself to go out there and help them help themselves, is a divine gesture.

This quality is the most difficult one to attain, especially for an Indigo, who generally dislikes most people or does not want to associate with them. However, the fruits of your efforts and actions will be worth every bit of your struggle. You cannot go through life, and I've learnt this the hard way, ignoring the world and it's people.

6. Look within yourself. Devise a programme for your inner development, a time table if you may, for your daily meditations, visualizations, prayers/affirmations, mental, concentration, intuition and psychic and exercises, and finally a slot for reading life, world and spiritual literature.

What you are doing with the above outline is shifting your life from self-centeredness to god-centeredness, by actualizing your self, your higher self and your god-consciousnes, by practicing universal god values, which will lead to awakening your Indigo. This will not happen overnight, it is a struggle, that for many spans several life times, but it will bear the sweetest fruits.

I also would like to mention to you, because you are living in end-times right now, that your Indigo realization could happen suddenly, when it all starts. As I've said Indigos are like spiritual warriors, and we are here to fight the evil that has darkened our world. You may find that all of a sudden someone inside you is awakened, as if activated by something. Good luck.

For me personally, I have a lot of emotional conflicts to settle before I can build a stronger mind and need to develop my concentration and will power. So I have a long way to go yet. I am still in the phase of finding myself and lifting that finger to act. I've lived through 23 years(I am 25) of constant trauma, in the last year, after releasing from the prison of my own mind, I am beginning to find myself. I can only do this at my own pace. Everyone grows at their own pace.

I hope this was helpful.



[edit on 25-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Indigos are like spiritual warriors, and we are here to fight the evil that has darkened our world

In what way are Indigos spiritual warriors? How do they fight evil?

I think it is more like the fight ignorance. also regarding the link on the first post I got all of them except

May be electrically sensitive such as watches not working and street lights going out as you move under them, electrical equipment malfunctioning and lights blowing out.

oh well

also one more thing lots of good posts this could have gone in the debate forum

I've just finished reading this whole post. It only caught my attention today. I can't actually belive what i've read, I think i'm still in shock!!

My whole life i've felt as if I didn't fit in anywhere. I always felt there was a splinter in my mind, a feeling that this world full of hate and pain I live in can't be real. It's taken me almost 23 years to find myself (i'm 23) and now I have confirmation that I am not alone in the feeling that I have about that I have incarnated in this physical world to help to make it a better place. The past 23 years have been like an uphill struggle. In the process i've questioned almost everything, especially my own sanity! But through it all my inner voice was always guiding me. The infinite spirit resides in everything. Realise this and you shall be immortal!!

I AM AN INDIGO CHILD!!

Peace and One Love to all, especially to all my Indigo Brothers and Sisters!

I.C: Thank You for this post!!! I desperatley want to communicate to you but have not the sufficent "currency" (20 posts) in order to do so. As soon as I do, I will be in contact!

Okay, so I read that website, and according to it, I'm a full fledged Indigo.

*snorts*

Sorry, I'm going to do what it says I'm most likely to do, and rebel. This thing reeks of bull testicles.

Don't get me wrong, I read that full thing, I have an IQ of 148, I have depression, blah blah blah...

But that website is wrong, this isn't a recent occurence, it's been going on for a looong time.

Plus the name... Indigo Child


Wow... that's hilarious... sounds like it originated from a cult or something.


BTW: There's another name for this than you mentioned. It's called BEING AN INTROVERT!!!! Look it up.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Mbuhir]

Man, please people if you only speculate that your an Indigo, because your life kind of relates to some of the people who claim their Indigo then you're probably lying to yourself, and should just work your way to be an indigo. I mean i think Indigo is a new aura or charka color, and if im right, you can change your charka or aura.

I mean I'm not a total skeptic of indigo children, but to claim your one without evidence just sheer BS, i mean wow I'M DEPRESS, I THINK I'M AN INDIGO. From what I heard, indigo children are pretty happy little buggers, filled with LOVE and JOY (lol I'm serious too), but i dont know, i might be wrong. And come on your not a child once your over that age of 50, 40, 30, 20, or even 11. Psh once you reach puberty you're a preteen, not a child.

Anyways I think if you want to know If your a real Indigo Children or born an Indigo I suggest you go see a professional psychic or specialist, and ask them to look at your aura or charka, whatever the one is, instead of once again comparing your crappy life to others people life, and saying hey im an INDIGO.......psh...

and know for all of those wannabe...

DID I JUST HEAR THE BELL, CUZ SOMEONE JUST GOT SCHOOLED!!!! lol, my friend made it up, i thought it was pretty funny, so i used it.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by skyblueff0]

[edit on 3-3-2005 by skyblueff0]

Geez. there sure is alot here. hehe.

I m not even gonna go esearching for my post again I need to get to twenty posts so I can start talkin to people.