I think all that is needed is a brief response:
I'm fine with who I am.
I was not referring to you per "say" I was saying in general, beliefs in such materialist and negative concepts, which are driven by human
weakneses, that drive the same immoral wars, moulds the person you are.
Also, believing you are fine as you are, is a universal belief in humans, and no, the world is not fine as it is.
I think therefore I am. My existance validates itself.
That really should be: I think therefore I think I am. Descartes was not thinking properly
However, again this does not invalidate what I said. You are thinking now, the next yocto second in the universe, you think not - so you believe.
Now you maybe fine with the irrelevance of your life in the universe, you maybe fine that your signifiance is no more than a vacuum cleaner per
However, most people are not, and it subconsciously manifests as destruction. I have talked many a troubled minds, and they often justify suicide or
murder to me, by telling me life is irrelavant anyway. There are many people who deny the existence of god or an afterlife, as a safety mechanism, so
that they do not have to hold themselves accountable later.
This is not what I said, this is what an atheist, whose a medical student, told me. I have a wise friend, whose a quasi atheist, but often turns to me
and tells me, I don't want to be too sure, if I was wrong, I might screw myself later - and it makes me laugh.
So, perhaps you should take a lesson onboard from my friends, if you are modest and humble enough to do so. Don't be so sure. Meanwhile, in the case
of "believers" it does not apply, because whatever the truth is, they still win. I've covered this argument extensively in the "Alien or God"
As far as we are concerned, as humans beings, with no idea of who we are, where have we come from; the book is pretty much wide open.
Machines are not capable of reflection and philosophy. We don't need to believe in 'god' to make us special.. it's a choice. And I don't
need 'god' to qualify my existance. I have that security within myself.
You have not been asked to believe in God. You have been asked to believe in yourself. And machines are capable of reflection and philosophy, if you
design it to do such. You are being machined when you are educated to think in particular ways.
You are a machine, as long as you let yourself be controlled by your conditioning, circumstances and your brain.
It affects the subconscious mind of an individual, when he is shown in the same way as a machine, because his concept of a machine, is something you
can turn on and off. That is what is taught in education.
Again, turning a machine off, makes it much more simple to turn a human off. I am sorry that you don't see what's wrong with that concept.
Opposed to relgions which justify death with righeteusness anyway.. or denograte the value of life with 'they were unsaveable anyway'? I care
about life.. self preservation includes self preservation of the species. The two don't rule out eachother.. they are dependant on eachother.
I, and another member, Lucid Lunacy have told you before, that religion is not just the "christian religion" there is no justifcation for murder in
spirituality. However, there is justification for murder in science.
Actually they were culled not only for their race but for their religion. If they were dead it meant germans could be 'god's' chosen.
That is the propoganda that was used, because as said to you earlier, religion can galvanize the peoples by entraining them onto a collective emotion
or mindset, and this is done by exploiting and manipulating their emotions with either jingoism or religion. If you look within, you will find that
this was just political propaganda to justify Hitlers depopulating initiatives, using the jews as a scape goat. The Jews were only 1/3rd of the total
people Hitler killed.
You love to hate religion, so you blame it on all on them, and remain oblivious, intentionally or otherwise, to the root cause. Which is no different
from a terrorist who loves to hate his enemy. Forgive me for the pun, but that is not very spiritual of you.
I already said I believe in 'energy' if I medidate I am connecting/evolveing awareness of and with it.
You, and the rest of the world believes in energy. I think the term you are looking for, is you have metaphysical beliefs in a universal force. Rather
than "spiritual" which is based on the existence of a soul.
I don't have 'god' or gods plural. I've already said that energy can't be contained.. their a different frequencies but are all
connected.. I just 'feel' them.. but I don't consider it 'god'.
I think is a good starting point, that you feel the force. However, your denial and preclusion of certain explanations, is not helping you understand
it. All that is in the way; is your own ignoance AND arrogance.
Where is your proof that the universe doesn't follow science?
You ARE and there IS
Science is based on logic, and whatever approach you adopt, you will create a paradox of the most fundamental truths of the universe, it's existence.
I have covered this already with you in the other topic.
Most wars throughout history have had a 'relgious' element.. and as I've already said before science has never been used as a moitive
for war.. relgion has.
Wrong. Already covered; a political element, not a religious element. As for science never being used as a motive for war. I've already said it, and
you've responded to it - Iraq: oil and WMD. Pay attention.
Yes.. AFTER president bush had included it in 'The axis of evil.' ..and after announcing that he is doing 'god's work'.
How scientific is it when you believe in political propaganda blindly? That sounds more like the blind faith of Christianity. I am not surprised that
a lot of what you hate is reflected by you.
What?! Christians ..when they want t be 'nice' follow Jesus.. if they want to be nasty they over-ride Jesus' word by using the old
testimant. If you remember I already answered this question and provided you the doctrine to support this from the OT [and new] in out last
converstaion. Apparently you didn't read it.
No I read it. You see Christ
ianity is based on the teachings of Christ, and that is what I recognize, because I recognize Christ to be a very
elevated spiritual person, whose teachings I espouse.
You see, whenever you talk about god, you always make an association to religions, mostly Christianity, and then proceed to use this as a
justification to dismiss any god-centered doctrines. Which is the height of ignorance, mind you.
Is that not what you are doing here, because I am suggesting a god-centered consciousness for humanity to advance. I espouse the values of Jesus, so
tell me, what is wrong with his teachings? For that is the centre of Christianity.
How nice for you.. I suppose you are going to tell us you are His prophet or messenger now?
Not if you are going to tell me if you are a prophet or a messenger, because you experienced "energy" I have experienced God, only because he is a
part of me, and it is a wonderful and fulfilling experience, where I suddenly felt connected to all there is, and felt such immense beauty, love
perfection and tears of joy were flowing out of my eyes. In fact it felt like the whole universe was a melody. It lasted only few minutes, happened
spontaenously, but I felt touched. That whole day everything was going right for me, the laws of probability were literally bending their way,
wherever I walked. I felt that God's light was with me that day. I could sense the brilliance of his light in everything I was doing, from the smile
on my face, and from my self-assurance and blazing confidence.
Please, I do not want to hear what you think my experience was. I am just letting you know that I have experienced him, and as far as I am concerned,
I know he exists and he is absolutely wonderful, and I hope that everyone could experience him. So it is not a "belief" for me - it's
My theory would change if I were presented with another one based of facts.. faith.. it wouldn't matter how many facts are presented
people will still believe in even the bloody tooth fairy if they need to.
It differs from silly crestion theories because there is evidence of evolution.
Did you need facts to believe in evolution? Nope, you were taught it in school. Yet, you need facts to believe in creation? I am sorry if I find that
Further, you think creation theories are "silly" but you would rather believe that you were accidentally created from self-assembling dust. We have
covered this as well in the other topic. I believe I set you a small task to do too. Have you done it yet?
Whichever way you slice, science as it is today is a religion.
Religion cetres are around a deity. Do I really have to paste dictionary defintions for you?
I would like to paste a dictionary definition for you, because it's obvious you have not looked yourself. Here is one of the definitions:
Religon: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Justifying death is not enlightened.. quite the opposite.
Death is an inevitable truth of the physical existence. In fact, he who can face death, knowing it is not the end, but the beginning of an end, is
enlightened. However, you have misunderstood, and primaly because you are processing it through the same thought patterns that are predisposed to the
notion that "Religion is evil"
Had you read properly, you would have seen, that I said that the world is nothing more than the manifestation of the collective consciousness, and
that all events in it are our own manifestations. So, when our negativity reaches it's extremes, it leads to our destruction. This is a very
fundamental law of creation: karma.
Nowhere did I justify murder of anyone. However, I am a human being, and if someone threatens my life, or the life of my loved one, then I will do
what is prudent. It was never wrong to fight evil. It never will be. War is sometimes very necessary.
See.. without religion.. there would be no expendable 'unsaved', no judgement day and no 'divine glory' to feed your ego. Sounds like
greed, vanity and self-absorbtion to me.
Religion is a man-made invention that offers it's own interpretations of creation. Creation preceeds it, and so do it's laws. This is not a
judgement day imposed by god, this is a judgement day imposed by man himself, from his own actions and choices.
You amuse me. Do you think you will not reap what you sow? Do you not think the collective ignorance of society in allowing it's leaders to enslave
them and wage wars and genocides all over the globe, is not going to be punished? Then you are more ignorant than I ever thought.
It's your judgement day, and you seem to think "it's all fine" and it is you who will judge yourself for your actions today. Every man has his
judgement day, but continues to evade it, until one day when he is on his death bed, he can no longer run from it, and he has to face who he really
is, and it is he that then decides his fate. Death can be the most horrible and painful experience of your life. For then, every mistake, every sin
you commited, every delusion you harboured, will be replayed for you to see, and if you do not forgive yourself for your sins, you will perish in your
own hell of eternal repent and relive the pain every moment of eternity.
Yet, for he that has lived a positive, peaceful and loving life. For he, whose real inner being, was glorious, for him death will be the most
spiritual experience of his life, and he will flourish and prosper in his own heaven.
Nothing really changes, it always remains your subjective universe, and is moulded on who you are inside and what you believe. I know a serial killer
who was part of a spiritual group I participated in, I did not know him personally though, but I was told about him. After killing so many people and
serving time in his hell, he saved himself. He knew what he did was wrong, and he wanted to repent for it, so he started serving other people, helping
others, showing them respect and peace and love. He is not the same person anymore. He is a more evolved soul than many people. When he dies, despite
all his crimes, he is going to heaven, because that is the state of his mind today - and it is the mind that creates reality.
This is why they say god is all forgiving, in reality they are talking about you, because you are all forgiving, when you can do it, you dispell all
your crimes and sins and are reborn as the light that you are.
So I tell anyone, don't condemn yourself to hell, for all you are going to do is regret it. Do you really want to be in pain and suffering for an
eternity? Be a peaceful and loving human being, and do yourself a favour, and do us a favour. This does not only make spiritual sense, it makes common
You do not need god, religion, Indigos, prophets, angels, messengers, to tell you this. This is common sense, that you seem to have lost.
[edit on 24-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]