Was ancient man schizophrenic? Voice of God and Jayne's "bicameral mind"

reply to post by Metaphysique


A beautiful reply.

KPB

To me this is about being able to use the sensory organs that exists in these biological machines that we are temporarily using as a vessel/vehicle to perceive the unknown outside of the Platos cave.

One way to experience and know the unknown is to connect to the unknown with manipulation of chakras (or what every you want to call the 7 modulators in your body that you can manipulate from this side). From my point of view this is what is described in the bible (revelation) as the 7 seven lamps of fire burning and 7 spirits of god. Some times god activate the crown and third eye on a person who is in need of help and they can literally feel the love physically.

reply to post by Logarock


reply to post by gardener

Logarock

gardener
Would make sense Abrahamic religions claim a God talks to them (in what language)? And entrusts them of all billion people on the world, to deliver messages for all Mankind.

Two things. It goes way past hearing voices to include face to face conversation. Need to understand that if we are going to get a clear picture here.

As well, considering the history time frame of the Hebrews, very rare were the individuals that claimed any sort of conversation with God or His angels.

actually 3 things
god/the gods/angels/demons DO NOT SPEAK USING WORDS

"They Talk with Emotional-Aggregates!"

Pictures/Feelings

Wherein the "Word" IS the Thing.

Pre- Babel Sprech [Glossolalia] is only naturally spoken by babies nowadays and when we Dream.
and Initiated Shamans who've learned The Language of Fire/Twilight Tongue.

I would offer that just perhaps there is a sort of collective consciousness that people used to interact with more consistently than we do today. Much evidence suggesting this is the case.

reply to post by poet1b


" but for some reason, went silent long ago. "
well rumour has it ,they nailed him to a cross.
so,,,
well at least we as a species can remember,,being the closest thing too an actual GOD.


which i guess by corelation makes Jesus Ben Jospheph,,aka Christ King of the Jews,,/,Prince of Peace,etc,,,stark raving loony.

JayinAR
I would offer that just perhaps there is a sort of collective consciousness that people used to interact with more consistently than we do today. Much evidence suggesting this is the case.

that too, as "everything is connected"
consider the fact that we all have a common ancestor[s]

reply to post by winofiend


you're getting warmer...
the ancient controller was Internal and natural

The modern External and Imposed


Which would you rather follow?

...and the God of Winofiend Spake thus: Go Minister as a Sacred clown to the People.

Yet Wino, doubted, especially regarding himself, and replied: "but Lord I will be accused of Trollery..."

"What carest thou, about the opinion of the Masses, it is to the Remnant that though will Minister"

get the picture?

reply to post by Metaphysique


Hm. I can vouch for the first part of what you are saying
as being correct. I have nothing to say about fire or
twilight speech.

Of coure there is is a 'place' where subject and object
fall utterly away.. then there is direct knowing and
no speech is required at all.

And contrary to popular belief there is no loss of
identity and no harm comes to the shaman either,
unless they foolishly go to that place, with a hole
in their heart.. which many are prone to do..

Then that doesn't turn out at all well... a perfectly
behaved spirit or 'god' can turn nasty in an instant
when fed streams they are not supposed to be
fed. Despite all their grandeur and majesty..
they too are liable to be infected wtih 'lower world
memes', if one brings those into their presence.

KPB

Metaphysique
reply to post by Logarock

 

reply to post by gardener

 

Logarock

gardener
Would make sense Abrahamic religions claim a God talks to them (in what language)? And entrusts them of all billion people on the world, to deliver messages for all Mankind.

Two things. It goes way past hearing voices to include face to face conversation. Need to understand that if we are going to get a clear picture here.

As well, considering the history time frame of the Hebrews, very rare were the individuals that claimed any sort of conversation with God or His angels.

actually 3 things
god/the gods/angels/demons DO NOT SPEAK USING WORDS

"They Talk with Emotional-Aggregates!"

Pictures/Feelings

Wherein the "Word" IS the Thing.

Pre- Babel Sprech [Glossolalia] is only naturally spoken by babies nowadays and when we Dream.
and Initiated Shamans who've learned The Language of Fire/Twilight Tongue.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I didn't find his ideas compelling. If one reads Sumerian literature one sees a 'human' behind the words (IMHO). The Illiad comes late to human literature it was written down around 750 BC and may have been based on an actual war fought around 1200-1300 BC, there was writing well before that.

Whatever the case may be, there's certainly some evidence for the ongoing physical evolution of the human brain in comparison to even relatively recent ancestors.

For one, it would seem our brains are smaller:
Live Science
Sciencemag News

Whether this makes us more, or less intelligent, or how it affects us is still a question of debate.

AliceBleachWhite

Whatever the case may be, there's certainly some evidence for the ongoing physical evolution of the human brain in comparison to even relatively recent ancestors.

For one, it would seem our brains are smaller:
Live Science
Sciencemag News

Whether this makes us more, or less intelligent, or how it affects us is still a question of debate.

That is true but I think the changes we see in behaviour are based more on our education and organization of information. People from HG, Pastoralist and fishermen from less technically advance groups do 'see' the world differently and react accordingly. Some see the world as "a demon haunted world' to quote Sagan. Westerners see it differently now - well some do, not all. It is good to look at the records of cultural anthropologists and see just how different tribal views are of the world Even today you can find some very skewed - from 'our' point of view, modern people in this modern world.

reply to post by Hanslune


which basically translates too,,,"stay out of the big City,,its a bad place",,,,,,,,,through out history.

from an open fields,,fresh,,honest days physical labour,, with the fruits of growth, too show for it.,,

kind of perspective.

Could be God or Satan, angels or demons, to being bi-polar moods swings in whatever sense. It would depend on the severity, or how many screws that person has lost.

Plus many ancient civilizations were into herbology, which is pretty much drugs, albeit more natural in that sense. Phantastica a good example.

Need I say the third eye...

BobAthome
reply to post by Hanslune

 

which basically translates too,,,"stay out of the big City,,its a bad place",,,,,,,,,through out history.

from an open fields,,fresh,,honest days physical labour,, with the fruits of growth, too show for it.,,

kind of perspective.

Actually that translated to something like 90%
of ATS is pure nuts (including me from that
perspective). I loved Carl Sagan too..

KPB

reply to post by Hanslune


I agree its precisely in how we organize information.
Our brains arent required to recall as much information anymore. Computers and cell phones store everything for us and are recalled with a touch of a button.

What's interesting is cranial size is decreasing while overall size is increasing.

I don't think brain size correlates directly to intelligence.
Crows for instance are very intelligent and their brains are TINY.

Hanslune

That is true but I think the changes we see in behaviour are based more on our education and organization of information. People from HG, Pastoralist and fishermen from less technically advance groups do 'see' the world differently and react accordingly. Some see the world as "a demon haunted world' to quote Sagan. Westerners see it differently now - well some do, not all. It is good to look at the records of cultural anthropologists and see just how different tribal views are of the world Even today you can find some very skewed - from 'our' point of view, modern people in this modern world.

What you've described is more along the lines of the Nurture Argument.

Physically, neurologically, were we to take any modern human, regardless cultural origin and place them in tandem education with other children from other cultures, all learning the same at similar rates, we'd see no great variation or distinguishment beyond normally observed conditions in classrooms anywhere.

With our hardware shrinking, the question begs what cognitive adaptations for better and worse are at play.

Most of us have seen the chimpanzee short term memory superiority over human short term memory demonstrated in that one "Are you smarter than a chimpanzee" video.
Such demonstration is not only cognitive learned, but, neurological physical such, any and every one of us would be hard pressed regardless training to perform even marginally close the chimpanzee benchmark.

Granted, there's the autism argument too that can come into play where some Autistic subjects might demonstrate similar flash memory, but, here again, we come to the question of hardware and software.

The mind is a lot like a sword or a muscle, needs to be sharpened, or exercised. Or even tuning a musical instrument through such regiments or structures.

Our problem with our brains, is complacent. We think to much about various things.

Young Grass Hopper need discipline, really.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


"and place them in tandem education with other children from other cultures, all learning "

ya,,, "they",,really did not like that idea,,much.

Norway killings: The laughing gunman



by the way,, is he ?????

reply to post by BobAthome


I'm not really sure I get what you're on about there.

Many children in Western culture already experience this in learning alongside diverse other children from many various and far flung cultures.
There's certain stereotypes that occur, like Asian children being better at math, but, all in all, this is also a product of Nurture with emphasis in studies stressed in levels of importance different than some other households of differing cultural influence.

My primary illustration is that there is no real difference in modern humans from a neurological/physical perspective, and due no real marked difference, there's no real marked difference beyond the norm already in evidence in unicultural classrooms everywhere else.

Where the difference between our ancient ancestors lies, both neurologically and cognitively is a matter of debate, one aspect framed in the OP.
Neurologically/Physically, however, as illustrated and alluded to in my previous posts, there are evidences of decreased brain size in modern contemporary humans compared to our recent (~5000 years+) modern human ancestors.
We don't, yet, know what this means, and how it affects, or has affected us, but, as an illustration of differences in neurology/physical functioning, I referenced material from a study examining chimpanzee short term memory:


We humans can't compete with the short term memory superiority of chimpanzees, no matter our training.
It's an actual physical/neurological barrier.

As I framed, our brains are getting smaller, so, per comparison with studies in primatology which demonstrate these physical differences and capabilities (from the much smaller Chimpanzee brain), what might the differences between our ancestors with bigger brains be?
Can we do/think/envision/imagine/conceptualize things they couldn't, and/or vice-versa, and to what extent?

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Humans have co-evolved with both memes and with technology,
from nearly the very beginning. Granted at the time, 'technology'
may have just been a sharpened stick usable as a weapon.

There are those who say that humans are devolving, not evolving,
and I can see that point.

Are human brains shrinking because they can rely on technology
to confer survival advantage, rather than raw brain power?

I think so.

Humans may wind up being man/machine hybrids with very small
actual forebrains... the rest made up with by silicon.

I'm not terribly thrilled by this future...

KPB