Hitler and the Conquest of Britain, Ireland and America

reply to post by mirageman


That was a very good summary of what could have happened.

Actually there are two reports of Jewish women who were taken to Austria from the Channel Islands because the British police turned them over to the Nazis.

We should be thankful that what could have happened..didn't.

reply to post by mirageman


Very nice thread.

I would like to add, one small tidbit to discussion.

It almost happened, that Hitler died in airplane-accident which was controlled by his first officer, due to bad weather, low altitude and unknown territory. They almost crashed into very tall industrial chimney (Kaukopään Piippu), wingtip missed it only by ~10 meters or ~30feet.

The story is told by a finnish ace (Hand Wind), who was piloting one of those escorting finnish planes, which were ordered to "special mission" without other info.

Later it turned out that the special mission was to escort some messerschmits and one Focke Wulf Condor (Bomber). Adolf was in that bomber, piloted by his first officer.

I don't know, if many of you readers have ever heard this story. It is true.

There is also one video in YT of the same day, lots of pics and #, and theres funny thing in the video, the FW Condors wheel catched some flames during Baurs landing.

And if i recall correctly, in the video, theres also one SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET Mercedes that Hitler gave to Mannerheim on his birthday. Look on Mannerheims face is priceless. (and his gestures too)



Well i skimmed through this vid, it wasn't the one i was talking about, this vid is just some excerpts from the longer documentary. Too bad. Theres lot of interesting info about WW2 when you count Finland in.

That war was a #STORM. It is still very hard for me personally, to try understanding that particular war. USA was aiding and supplying Soviets, our grandfathers fought ruskies who had very nice American made stuff (like Airacobras). Red Army even had Shermans, altho afaik there were no Shermans fighting in Finland.

Even Britain declared war on Finland back then.

Stupid, stupid.

If England had fallen then the US would have no chance of attacking Germany no US bomber had the range no mass landing by sea would be possible and the war would have ground to a stalemate until either the Germans or the US developed the long range weapons to reignite the conflict.

Now it is a fact that the Germans were developing the means to attack the continental US and it is also a forgone conclusion that the Germans would have developed ICBMS first by a long way.

The USA would have faced a Nazi super state armed with the superior technology to attack American cities at will. The only possible option for the US would have been to develop longer range bombers to attack Europe with nuclear weapons but that was never going to work either logistically or morally.

In truth the US would have no option but to attempt to negotiate a peace deal with the Nazis until they were able to catch up technologically by developing their own ICBMs something the US didn’t manage until just before1960 even with the head start provided by captured Nazi engineers and their hardware.

I often read the comments by some of Americas sheep brained numbskulls blurting out comments such as “we saved your limey asses in the war” or “if it wasn’t for the good ol US of A you would all be speaking German now”. But the truth is America had save its own ass from the Nazi threat and it was the British determination to remain free that gave the US the last hope to do that its what I like to call British exceptionalism .

America had 3000 miles of the Atlantic between them and the Nazis but the British had only 23 miles of the English channel yet together our countries saved our own asses.

Imaginative thread. Story telling
as far as I know the third reich never surrendered.

Go figure

reply to post by brianporter


Wilmington, North Carolina reported German UBoots off their coast. That's pretty scary to think how close they were, but at the same time, the Nazi Party was operating in the United States. They had a large convention at Madison Square Garden in which their main speaker was Charles Lindbergh. I don't think Lindbergh was a Nazi, but he was well aware of their flying capabilities and was warning the government about it. But what is more interesting is that even though he was speaking to the Nazi Party, it was a German national who had been charged with kidnapping his baby.

What was the purpose for the Hindenberg coming to the United States in the first place? Why did a Nazi air ship come here? Were they simply showing off their big balloon? We will never really know, but it's kind of suspicious that Lindbergh speaks at a Nazi Convention and the Hindenberg comes here? Then a German national kidnaps his baby?

Maybe that's chronologically out of order, but all those of those were tied to Germany in some way.

Freeborn
Err....not for quite some time - 1066 was the last time Great Britain was successfully invaded, nearly a thousand years ago.

I think 1689 still counts

Germany could not have successfully invaded England - alternative history novels to the contrary.

Even had the RAF "withdrawn" behind London as they did have plans to do, it was the Royal Navy that would have cost Germany it's 350,000 strong invasion force - they may have lost a lot of ships doing it - but they would still have done it.

Let's look at some facts - in September 1940 Germany essentially had no surface navy - less than 2 dozen destroyers and torpedo boats, a handful of cruisers, Bismark was still on sea trials, Tirpitz wasn't launched yet, Scharnhorst was under repair from a torpedo hit but might have been useable, Gneisenau was available as was Admiral Scheer of the "Graf Spee" class cruisers. There were alos a couple of dozen submarines.

the RN had over 20 cruisers and 80 destroyers available, plus 6-8 battleships and 2-3 aircraft carriers, and over 60 submarines!

The German plan called for the invasion forces to anchor off the beaches for 3 days - 2 nights - during this time the British light forces would have massacred them!

also the RAF had something the LW did not have at this stage - an effective ant-shipping force in the form of Beaufort torpedo bombers - the LW successes against the RN in 1941 used techniques they had not developed yet, but the RAF would have had stationary merchant ship targets off the south coast to practice night torpedo attacks on!!

What's more the 2nd and 3rd waves of the invasion needed the same transports as the 1st wave......which would not have been available once sunk!

also the LW could not have maintained air superiority over England even if the RAF had "retreated". Much is made of the "pilot shortage" of the RAF where they were "down to" 1.5 pilots per spitfire and hurricane - but the LW never had MORE than 1.1 pilots for each 109!

RAF reserves of Spitfires and Hurricanes never fell below 600 - their production of over 400/month through this period was almost DOUBLE German production of 109's AND 110's at about 225/month.

consider the problems the RAF had with covering Dunkirk and channel convoys before the BOB - then apply those to the LW over England without radar......

And then there's the army - short of equipment for sure - but it was still there - about 15 divisions were in reasonable fighting trim, including New Zealanders, Canadians and Australians - and there were about another 20 divisions forming up, plus the home guard/resistance, etc. - they might not have stood much chance in open battlefields, but against a German force with no air cover, no supplies and no retreat they probably would have been more than enough.

So if you are postulating an alternative history you need to start way back about 1938 or 37 with some practical planning by the Germans - not just take it as read that Sealion would have succeeded!

Angelic Resurrection
Imaginative thread. Story telling
as far as I know the third reich never surrendered.

Go figure

The Reich President (Doenitz) ordered the surrender of the armed forces by Jodel, which effectively dissolved the authority of the German Govt of the time (commonly called the Flensberg govt or regime) and placed it in the hands of Allies.

the Flensburg Govt was dissolved by the Alies on 23 May, and on 5 June the allies declared that the 3rd Reich was terminated.

you may argue that therefore they did not ever surrender if you wish - but the fact is they did not exist, so could not have surrendered!

reply to post by seandean


Yesterday I thought ATS had sunk to a new low by someone defending the KKK

Now it seems ATS has sunk lower we have a hitler defender!

Take a bow Sir, excellent thread, I ejoyed reading many of the posts after aswell,.....now allow me to ad some fact and urban legend to the event involving Ireland for any of you who are interested.

The attack on the North Strand in Dublin killed 34 Irish civilians and wounded 90, prompting apologies from Nazi Germany and claims by the British that de Valera's neutral Ireland was at last paying the price for "sitting on the fence" during the war against the Third Reich. After the war, Germany paid compensation to the Irish Republic for what it described as a military error, while British intelligence officers suggested that the German aircraft - en route to a target in the United Kingdom - had been deliberately steered towards Dublin by RAF experts who had "bent" the Luftwaffe direction-finding radio beams.

But the bombing of Dublin remains one of the great mysteries. Did Berlin wish to punish de Valera for sending his fire brigades north to help Belfast after the April bombings in Northern Ireland? Did Germany wish to warn Ireland against sympathising too greatly with Belfast victims of the Blitz? Or were the Germans angry at Ireland's trade with Britain?

www.independent.co.uk...

My best friends father befriended a German man in while on a fishing trip in the Irish country side, this led to my friend and his father going to visit this gentleman in Bavaria for a holiday. It turned out this man was a former soldier in world war 2, my friend told me this man showed him a collection of knives he had, with one knife being one he "recieved" from a Polish soldier and another he "recieved" from a Russian soldier, anyway this ex-nazi soldier told my friends father that the general concensous in the Third Reich was of hospitible nature to Ireland and that the plan was to make Ireland the "Greenhouse of Europe".

So there ya go folks, enjoy.

reply to post by seandean


This is quite possibly the most... misguided, badly-informed and downright wrong post I've ever read. No. Go back to school and open a big papery thing called a 'book'. If you really think that Hitler went to war to protect the German minority in Poland then you have another think coming. He declared war on Poland because he wanted land. Oh and the Holocaust figure is unchanged. It's still at around six million men, women and children, senselessly murdered for the 'crime' of being Jewish. Good grief, this post is laughable.

reply to post by seandean

The world would be a better place today if we had negotiated with Hitler and defeated Stalin!

They were both quite despicable people in their own right.....but one thing is certain, ATS would be a damn sight better place without you spouting complete and utter bollocks like that.

reply to post by Freeborn



Plus without the NAZI's and Hilter we would not have got the ultimate vilian!

I mean thanks to Hitler we have got decades worth of Film and Vidio game material!

You couldnt have made up such a villian!

crazyewok
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Plus without the NAZI's and Hilter we would not have got the ultimate vilian!

I mean thanks to Hitler we have got decades worth of Film and Vidio game material!

You couldnt have made up such a villian!

We would also have missed out on this:



Which made my week

skalla

crazyewok
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Plus without the NAZI's and Hilter we would not have got the ultimate vilian!

I mean thanks to Hitler we have got decades worth of Film and Vidio game material!

You couldnt have made up such a villian!

We would also have missed out on this:

Which made my week

Now that would have been a program haha

Though I would have thought spock would have ended up in concentration camp

reply to post by Ranong


Thanks for that story Ranong. It was something I'd a very vague knowledge of but nothing more.

reply to post by crazyewok


Yes Hitler and those sharp dressed Nazis make very good movie villains and provide the basis for countless plots as you say for games as well. Even threads like this on the internet!

What is perhaps a little more subtle is that some of the methods the Nazis used to achieve their ends is still used today. The "pick on a minority" tactic is often used by businesses when they want to change working conditions or even shed staff. First they pick on one small group to achieve what they want whilst the remainder believe it doesn't affect them so carry on as normal. Until eventually it's their turn and then it's too late. Even governments do it. Our own are currently picking on the "benefit scroungers" who are really few and far between and the amount wasted on them is paled in insignificance by the tax dodging of the major corporations.

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by seandean

 

This is quite possibly the most... misguided, badly-informed and downright wrong post I've ever read. No. Go back to school and open a big papery thing called a 'book'. If you really think that Hitler went to war to protect the German minority in Poland then you have another think coming. He declared war on Poland because he wanted land. Oh and the Holocaust figure is unchanged. It's still at around six million men, women and children, senselessly murdered for the 'crime' of being Jewish. Good grief, this post is laughable.

Some people are so stupid that they fall for anything.

Hitler invaded Poland the day after he told Chamberlain he would stay out of Poland. He justified this because of the Germans in Czechoslovakia.

If you really want to read something disturbing Hitler's Table Talks is his own words, where he wants Britain to invade the United States. This is what he believed he could achieve.

While very imaginative and interesting as a work of fiction the prerequisites for such a scenario were nowhere near fruition. Even if Germany had achieved air superiority (which they nearly did but for a combination of volunteer pilots from around the world and the use of radar to co-ordinate fighter group intercepts along with Hitler's decision to begin bombing civilian centers in retaliation for a bombing of Berlin) the Royal Navy would have defended the isle with every ship they had which was a considerable navy for the time. The land defenses of England were also built in great depth and would have slowed even German armor to a crawl. England was rushing production of sticky bombs, land mines, grenades and every kind of explosive useful in defense and partisan attacks. Millions of old rifles from WW1 had been restored and were being passed out to home guard units.

It is true England had little in the way of an Army left to defend herself with. At one point there were less than 50 tanks to repel a German invasion. Building a fleet of landing craft would have taken months, perhaps as long as a year to create sufficient numbers to attempt a crossing of the Channel. The German navy was no match for England and even though she had ships of superior quality such as the Bismarck and Tirpitz her navy would have been outnumbered something on the order of 6 to 1, exclusive of submarines.

As for combined German/Japanese invasion of America such an idea is laughable. Even had the entire US navy been wiped out the logistics of delivering millions of troops to the US was an insurmountable task. Japan couldn't even occupy all of China and Southeast Asia. America would have stood on her own until her long range bombers, aircraft carriers and atomic bombs would have turned back any would be invaders. Most Americans back then not only owned firearms but could shoot as well. Admiral Yamamoto told the Japanese high command that an invasion of the US could not succeed because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".

America had the manpower, natural resources and industry to fight both Germany and Japan alone if need be. No doubt our casualties would have numbered in the millions as Russia bore the brunt of the German war machine. While it can be entertaining to muse on the "what if's?" of history the idea of Hitler defeating England and the US in turn would necessarily follow a much longer line of what if's to even make such a venture feasible.

Angelic Resurrection
Imaginative thread. Story telling
as far as I know the third reich never surrendered.

Go figure

The third Reich surrendered to Montgomery on Luneburg heath, date is somewhere on Google!

Kenneth Macksey wrote an interesting book on Hitlers invasion of England might have been like, ' invasion, the German invasion of England July 1940' arms and armour press 1980. no isbn number in the book.

I have a complete edition of the German army maps of France, coal mines, water works, electrical sub stations, roads, railways, airfields, docks, bridges, canals, etc, no wonder they beat the French (in six weeks). almost forgot even the geology of France!