Police attack nurse because she called her supervisor.

OccamsRazor04

Or maybe there is a legit reason why officers, despite them being the royal, armed demi-gods who are entitled and owed our fear and adoration

, are not supposed to go rolling up on psych patients without some sort of preparation specifically performed for them; patient sees group of armed, black uniformed men. Patient proceeds to go apesh**. Our Royal demi-gods had no choice but to smite another (unarmed) unruly subject. Maybe the nurse had this in mind, and proceeded accordingly.

I work in a psychiatric hospital, everything here is complete garbage.

As do/have I for the last 2 decades.

Wouldn't say it was complete garbage at all.
Definitely wouldn't have used the Demi-God dismissive reference to LEOs anyway...as they, well at least in our country, are just doing their jobs just as much as we who work in mental health systems/hospitals are.

But that said - we work hard at maintaining close working relationships with the Police, and we have Police Liaisons/Psychiatric Liaisons working between both our sectors to smooth engagements.

Police Officers needing to visit the Wards is not uncommon.
The Police could be doing a transport to the Ward due to the nature of the person and/or their committal situation.
Some of the people we may be working with may have been committed due to coming to attention of the Police, may have committed some form of crime etc while in a state of unwellness...many reasons.

The sight of a blue uniform however does tend to create disruption and at times quite a bit of animosity and heightened paranoia amongst a good many of those people we are working with.


So...our Wards/Units at least...do have some mutually agreed entry procedures between us and Police.
Just helps keep them and everyone else safe and the situation a bit easier to manage.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


"Sexually assaulted" was a mentally ill guy grabbing her butt.

As a former mental health worker, I was "sexually assaulted" hundreds of times in my time there. Never filed charges. Someone who is mentally ill doing that....just redirect them and hope the medicine kicks in soon.

Being in a mental hospital under court order means you are already in custody. You cannot be arrested again.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


which goes to show that a lot of 'em cops are severely lacking common sense.. i stopped believing in any justice done and see those cops as exalted high school bullies in uniform with guns and hand cuffs..

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Sorry, I will take a police reports' account of an altercation with a cargo ship of rock salt.

I think the possibility of the nurse refusing to let the officers arrest the patients JUST BECAUSE SHE CAN seems a bit unlikely.

What seems more likely is that once again, like it happens so often, the cops were itching for some action.

Did you really it was justifiable for the cop to attack the woman like that? You see how he beelined for with such a fast pace? He already had it in his mind when he was fiddling with the door that he was going to slam her ass on the floor, and violently dominate the woman like the pee brained supremacist he probably is.

You realty think they were merely doing there job?

reply to post by bigman88


And why does the fact the cop was wrong to use the force he used negate the fact the nurse most likely DID do what she is accused of.

One of us works in a hospital and sees cop/nurse interactions often. Hint, it's not you.

The nurse was wrong for doing what she did, the cops were wrong for that they did as well. They should have been civil while arresting her, shame on them.

I find what the nurse did more repulsive, as I said, what if YOUR wife/mother/sister was sexually assaulted and someone had a power trip and said NOPE you can't arrest him, I call the shots, and he's walking on this one? Disgusting.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

"Sexually assaulted" was a mentally ill guy grabbing her butt.

As a former mental health worker, I was "sexually assaulted" hundreds of times in my time there. Never filed charges. Someone who is mentally ill doing that....just redirect them and hope the medicine kicks in soon.

Being in a mental hospital under court order means you are already in custody. You cannot be arrested again.

False. You can be arrested. Now if you really are a mental health worker you know there is no one size fits all box for mental capacity. You have no idea why he was in there. Did he hear voices telling him to do it which lowers his culpability? Possibly. That is for judges and lawyers, not nurses on a power trip, to decide.

You don't get to rape a woman and get away with it because you are in a psychiatric hospital, doesn't fly.

alien

OccamsRazor04

Or maybe there is a legit reason why officers, despite them being the royal, armed demi-gods who are entitled and owed our fear and adoration

, are not supposed to go rolling up on psych patients without some sort of preparation specifically performed for them; patient sees group of armed, black uniformed men. Patient proceeds to go apesh**. Our Royal demi-gods had no choice but to smite another (unarmed) unruly subject. Maybe the nurse had this in mind, and proceeded accordingly.

I work in a psychiatric hospital, everything here is complete garbage.

As do/have I for the last 2 decades.

Wouldn't say it was complete garbage at all.
Definitely wouldn't have used the Demi-God dismissive reference to LEOs anyway...as they, well at least in our country, are just doing their jobs just as much as we who work in mental health systems/hospitals are.

But that said - we work hard at maintaining close working relationships with the Police, and we have Police Liaisons/Psychiatric Liaisons working between both our sectors to smooth engagements.

Police Officers needing to visit the Wards is not uncommon.
The Police could be doing a transport to the Ward due to the nature of the person and/or their committal situation.
Some of the people we may be working with may have been committed due to coming to attention of the Police, may have committed some form of crime etc while in a state of unwellness...many reasons.

The sight of a blue uniform however does tend to create disruption and at times quite a bit of animosity and heightened paranoia amongst a good many of those people we are working with.


So...our Wards/Units at least...do have some mutually agreed entry procedures between us and Police.
Just helps keep them and everyone else safe and the situation a bit easier to manage.

edit on 28-10-2013 by alien because: (no reason given)

Yes, which is NOT AT ALL what the person I replied to said. What they said is complete and utter garbage. Nurses and LEO working together and forming a plan of action so that BOTH parties do their job with minimizing patient reaction/trauma is acceptable. Claiming no you can not enter at all because I say so is not acceptable, even if the reason was because it can cause disruptions.

Can you deny an admission where LEO bring a patient in because the sight of LEO will cause disruption? No. What about a patient who is being transferred to court by LEO, same thing. Working together is fine, denying LEO admission is not, and is complete garbage.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


If you continue calling a butt grab "rape", then I have no choice but to ignore you. FFS man, at least be honest when discussing.

If you are committed to a mental hospital, you are a ward of the county. You are in custody. You cannot be arrested twice.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Nah I get that...and agree with you there.
I was just referring to the disruption it can - and on our Wards does - cause when a blue uniform or two rock up.

As a Psych Nurse by trade, to be honest (though probably sounds too harsh) a bit of me is struggling somewhat to have sympathy for this fellow nurse.
Sure there would have been a better way for the Police to handle that - but so too the nurse.
Professional courtesy goes a long way.

The Nurse could have perhaps isolated the suspect and got the Police in to wait for the suspect. ..all manner of ways that could have gone down which likely/hopefully wouldn't have resulted in that.
Who knows...its all assumptions and hindsight being 20/20 and all that...


That's the other thing that gets me...of course keeping in mind I/we aren't aware of all the ins and outs of that situation. ..but as a Psych Nurse you are trained to deal calmly with heightened distressed situations.
The very nature of your profession requires you to be well-versed and proficient in deescalation techniques.
You are trained to respond and act in a professional manner regardless of what the context may be.

Again I'm in no way attempting to excuse or justify the outcome...just saying I would have expected that Nurse to also have handled and engaged with those Officers a bit better...again regardless of how less than professional they themselves may have been.
Thats certainly the expectation I have upon the nursing team I manage at work.


Whether the persons wearing a uniform or a hospital gown...shouldn't really effect how you conduct yourself in the face of possible aggression as thats kinda the context you work in on the Wards.


Just my 2c anyway for whatever it may or may not be worth.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

If you are committed to a mental hospital, you are a ward of the county. You are in custody. You cannot be arrested twice.

That's probably the most basic thing that just puzzles the crap out of me here.

If someone gets buttraped in the county slam, the staties don't run in, beat down the prison guards and arrest the raper. This guy's already in custody. How do you arrest someone that's already in a facility where he's a ward of the state to begin with?

www.federalhasson.com... here is a link to the lawyer defending her. does not look like a typical ambulance chaser so i guess we will have to wait for this to go to trial to see who ends up winning this one.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


If the nurse did halt the cop from arresting the perv patient just cuz she wanted to, then I would acknowledge that. I really would; I don't like most cops, but only because most of them nowadays are needlessly mean and aggressive. A simple interaction elicits profanity and chest puffing from these guys, even the female cops. I've dealt with it. If they are not agro, they can be nice, but won't bother even trying to calm their agro partner down, like it's part of the job to be mean and aggressive. If the nurse was acting like that, she too will get my contempt, just as much as any cop.

But as I said before, I find it very hard to believe that the nurse simply did not want the cop to arrest the patient JUST CUZ SHE GOT DA POWA. I think it more likely that the nurse just wanted to call and make sure that it was okay for the cops to proceed towards the patient. You know why I think this? Because cops LIE. They shoot you or your dog dead for little to no reason, and guess what happens? They will absolutely customize the story so that they had a legit reason for it. But then the video footage from the camera that was snuggled away in the corner that shows the victim making NOT ONE MOVE surfaces, and all of a sudden the department must do an internal investigation, while the cop chills out at home while still collecting his checks.

So when they claim that the lady did not want to let the cops through to the perv just because? I don't know, it's not smart to take there word, you and everyone should know this by now...

And once again, why didn't they just simply wait to here what the supervisor on the phone had to say? Why didn't they follow the officer on the phone's lead, and CHILL THE FRIG OUT? The fact that that only one of them took it to a physical level was an arbitrary call; he didn't have to, he WANTED to. The others were like "0_0, really? Well alright, whatever..." and bam, you have 4 large ass men on a single woman.

Even if the woman was being difficult for no reason, do you seriously think it was called for to INITIATE AN PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION? Now remember that we know how the police departments assign officers to get arrests any way they can, and that means sometimes provoking a normally compliant person to resist, which gives them justifiable cause to step it up another level. Look at the video. The cop heads STRAIGHT FOR HER, and then GRABS HER. Did she attack the cop? Was she a danger to them or anybody else that she needed to be taken to the ground?

That's it, they won. Even the people are on the side of their oppressors. But they will lose in the end...

defcon5

Bedlam
A judge might be able to write a withdrawal of care order if the patient has no family and is incompetent, because a layperson kin to the patient can do the same.

Not always true, look at what happened with the girl whose family and husband disagreed.

Bedlam
A judge cannot order an inmate to be given 100mg of Trazodone QHS prn insomnia. Because that's not in his scope.

They can if its someone that is under arrest. I don't legally know the details, but it does happen. I don't know if they consult with a physician, or they have judges who are also physicians, but it happens.

Bedlam
Case in point - Lisa Hofstra. She was ordered by a cop to perform a blood test on a guy they dragged into an ED in Chicago, IIRC. She replied she could not do so without the man being admitted, and could not do so without a physician's order to draw the blood at any rate. So the guy arrested her for obstruction, and the city dropped the charges as being unlawful and paid out $78k. I would not have settled, personally.

'
the problem here is that the officer didn't have a judges warrant, if he did then she would have had to comply. They can force you to have a blood draw based on a judges warrant, that is how DWI roadblocks in “no refusal” states work.

I never despute an Mods comments, as I do respect authority [even if that respect is not always deserved~or even real on my part]. However, in reading through this thread I have crossed so very much poor information and some of which is simply out & out wrong.

Withdrawaling of blood is not even close to being the same as administering medications. Taking blood at roadstops is relatively new and cannot be compared to the issuance of blood, or in this case, medications.

Medications have to be 'ordered' by a qualified physician, as do any Rx. A police officer or even a judge cannot order a person to be given any medication without legal prescription, as this would be illegal under the law.

In any hospital [or even nursing facility] there are proper procedures and protocols set in place to protect the patient, staff, and visitors. Why would it be alright for the police to follow their protocols, but not alright for staff at the vacility to follow theirs (?) And the police would know this.

Comparing the Shriever(sp) case to this is apples & oranges, as we have no family members here in disagreement, the pt. in question is not on life support, and her case set a new precident. All of which makes no difference at all when discussing the arguement at hand.

There seems to be a lot of opinions in this thread, which is fine and pretty much all mine is too, but some are stating an awful lot as if it were fact, when much of that is not the case at all.

Regardless of how this turn/s/ed out, the police here did abuse their authority [at least in the beginning]. We didn't see what happened afterwards, and what was written in the police report cannot simply be accepted as complete truth-not after seeing how the force was witnessed in the video.

We can disagree here and that's fine with me, but we can't honestly disagree with the fact that the abuse of power by LEOs across the country is more widespread and only getting worse with time.

American law-enforcement, as viewed from the civilised world:

"Yee-Haw!" BLAM!! BLAM!! BLAM!! "Stop or I'll shoot!" BLAM!! BLAM!! BLAM!!

BO XIAN
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I keep trying to construe some sort of mechanism turning all this loose.

The only one that makes sense to me is a kind of spiritual demonic triggering mechanism . . . a general increase in lawlessness for this END TIMES era.

One could fantasize a NWO globalist oligarchy cue-in for the police forces but I'd think that would have been leaked long ago and I haven't read of such.

Why soooooo much of such . . .

Perhaps it's 'merely' because they sense consciously or unconsciously what the globalists are sanctioning, urging, setting up . . . and are 'going there' sooner than wholesale mandated?

I don't know.

Very curious. There HAS to be SOME sort of mechanism fostering such a massive increase in such cases, imho.

\
your more right than you know, trust me, it's hard to disconnect it. But it's possible.

reply to post by truthermantwo


Thanks for your kind reply.

Can you elaborate, PLEASE!

Cryptically or at length--please elaborate!