Salvation for Dummies - The hypocrisy of the Self-Righteous Christian

reply to post by Joecroft

And you still haven’t answered my question as to whether you have received the Holy Spirit…> In fact, you haven’t answered any of my questions, and yet you expect me to keep answering all of yours….

You perceive this because you have not listened to what has been said. None of us have received the Spirit if we are still baptized in the flesh. Unless you are a Spirit yourself, you are still a mix of beast and divine here in the wilderness. You are a sheep be moved by a Shepherd.

AMN in Hebrew is TRUE.

AMN in Greek and Latin is Lamb
AMNi is River of Life (Jordan)
AMNio is a bowl catching the blood of the lamb
AMNion is the sac covering the baby in the womb
AMNiotic Fluid is the water of the womb
AMNesia is when you forget (VEIL over the Temple)
AMNesty is when God forgets your sin and transgression
dAMNation is when you Lamb is taken.

You are a Lamb. Christ was the Lamb of God. He is the Firstfruits. We are the ones who were asleep in the dust. We have risen to new life in baptism. Spirit Baptism is next on our list.

Isaiah 26

19 Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise.
You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a dew of light,
and the earth will give birth to the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
and shut your doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until the fury has passed by.
21 For behold, the Lord is coming out from his place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity,
and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it,
and will no more cover its slain.

Deny ignorance by ending the process of ignoring.

Truth is Aleph Mem Tav.

Aleph is Alpha and Tav is the last letter of Hebrew. Mem is in the middle and means water (AMNI).

Revelation 1

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail[c] on account of him. Even so. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

AMEN is AMN in Hebrew. It means TRUE. TRUTH is Aleph Mem Tav. Alpha and Omega with water in the middle. The water is baptism. It is not over until the Tav arrives. That is Christ (Two crossed sticks). Look up the meaning of Aleph Tav in the Bible.



I am showing you what you need to see. Get past pride and your eyes will open.

reply to post by Joecroft

So what your stating here, is that Christ has to appear again (The Second coming ) before anyone can fully receive the Holy Spirit...is that right…?

I have said nothing apart from scripture to back me up.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Are you waiting for the second coming? What is he bringing? When did Christ receive the Holy Spirit? When the Father said he was pleased at Christ's baptism. The dove descended.

What are you waiting to hear?

Matthew 25

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

If you don't recall what happens before this, read Matthew 24. The signs of the times happen. That is today, then Matthew 25 happens. Until you hear, "Well Done," then you are still in sin. This is the same a Jesus. After baptism. Baptism is symbolism for immersion into the waters of life, where you are NOW.

reply to post by Joecroft

First of all, I don’t believe God is wrathful at all, and that Isaiah, although a great prophet, was tying in his beliefs, with traditions of men, from the past, regarding beliefs on Gods character etc…

Also, I believe in a just judgment from God, and that Baptism is required to avoid it, so I am kind of in agreement with you on that. But I completely differ with you, on the specifics.

But regardless of how I see the details of judgment, it’s a completely separate issue, from what your saying, about having to be resurrected first, before one can receive the Holy Spirit, which is what where discussing….and is the main aspect, that I disagree with you on.


- JC

You show here that you do not believe the word of God to be true. You are picking and choosing which parts you think are of men and which are of God. This is why you are blinded to what I am saying.

It's all true.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Is Romans 13 true?

Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

Did God institute the governing authorities of today? Are the authorities today agents of good? If they are agents of God who do good, then why do they do so many bad things at the expense of you and I?

What about this one?

Hebrews 13
17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Do you have confidence in the leaders today?

Everything in the bible is NOT true, it's ignorant to believe so.

This is the kind of stuff the leaders today WANT you to think. What a coincidence that it's in a book put together by Roman leaders almost 2,000 years ago.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

If you don't recall what happens before this, read Matthew 24. The signs of the times happen. That is today, then Matthew 25 happens. Until you hear, "Well Done," then you are still in sin. This is the same a Jesus. After baptism. Baptism is symbolism for immersion into the waters of life, where you are NOW.

We've already emerged from the waters though, we have emerged from our mother's amniotic fluid through birth, a.k.a. we have been "born again".

You have lost sight of the Holy Spirit, it is not in a book put together and edited by powerful Roman aristocrats, it's within you.

I believe in the teachings of Our Lord and that He is God. All the mystical/miraculous points to Christ.

Peter Kreeft use to be Protestant, he discovered the faith and converted. Everyone can, read catholic
writings, the lives of the saints, the Catechism...

+ + +

"Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe."

Peter Kreeft

Joecroft
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Originally posted by
I can clearly tell you that I am a follower of Christ, but my sin is always before me. The hunger to do wrong is still there, yet I have a hope that my future baptism into a new life will be free from this.

I’m confused by your last sentence…Do you mean, you have not yet received the Holy Spirit, and become born again?

- JC

There is a wisdom in Enoch's words here because we live in the constant state of aspiring towards emancipation from this toil and prison. We can receive 'Grace' and the Holy Spirit's guidance but we continue to live in this dark fallen state constantly fighting 'the good fight'. I think that the future baptism is when the chains are finally broken from this present enslavement.

There are bonds that we as yet do not understand and I believe that Jesus tried to warn us and lead us through the present darkness. In this way all I can say is that the current 'baptism' does not free us from such but is the beginning in what is the severing of this world and it's 'rulers'. These 'gods' have mastered human entrapment down to the soul if it were not for the One True Emissary Jesus.

Love is the key and the true baptism to free our souls perhaps comes at the end of the road for us when we discover the true words of Jesus in what is a life of Love and Service.

Earth, Water, Fire and Air are all baptisms that our souls require just as the elements comprise this world's creation and what comprises our reality here. The mysteries abound but the spark of Light within us is our Key out of the darkness and lies. Darkness cannot abide in Light. Think of baptism as the light breaking through the current darkness that enslaves our flesh bodies and souls. There is not one baptism but the equal measure of what this world has been created of and from. Perhaps the last baptism, the last element inside our being stands at the end of our journey and represents the true conquest out of this warring matrix for what is the true 'freedom' outside this prison.

Being 'Born Again' is merely the beginning in the battle of our Spirits for the fight in true freedom but nothing is what it seems in this world that is under the rulership of the 70 sons of El.

The hunger to do wrong as Enoch states is ingrained through the genetic manipulation inside our DNA and that is what we fight against. We fight against what was our originally created state with the connection to our Creator vs that which has been genetically adulterated cutting off the original bridge and Creation inside a world conquered by a race who stole our identity, memory and authority.

Being Born Again - is the first step in understanding that we are not of corruptible seed but rather of incorruptible lineage. This is the beginning of us taking our power back. Then there is the remainder of our lives fighting the very corruption that is the world and our manipulated nature's.

AfterInfinity
We are our own salvation. If you want to be saved, you need only look in a mirror to find the key. You don't need Jesus anymore than you need your mother to hold your hand.

edit on 25-10-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

This is a lie and a false teaching. To those who follow this line of teaching will end up in hell. Ignore this one and his lies.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I know you really like the loaf analogy, but I brought this point up in another thread and you ended up ignoring it.

If Jesus is the loaf, and we are slices of the loaf, and mold is sin, how is the loaf any good when all the slices have mold on them? If all the slices (us) sin, then the loaf is no good because it is moldy all the way through.

Do you choose to eat a moldy loaf of bread?

edit on 26-10-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Your analogies are twisted to fit your needs and beliefs.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


No, my analogy applies to Christian doctrine. Jesus is said to be the loaf and we are the slices of the loaf. If we are full of sin and are slices of the loaf, how is the loaf itself sin free?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

No, my analogy applies to Christian doctrine. Jesus is said to be the loaf and we are the slices of the loaf. If we are full of sin and are slices of the loaf, how is the loaf itself sin free?

Where in the bible did Jesus say he was the loaf and we are slices of the loaf?

Nowhere in my bible can I find this saying, so from whom are you quoting?

reply to post by Fraudfinder

1 Corinthians 10
16 When we bless the cup at the Lord’s Table, aren’t we sharing in the blood of Christ? And when we break the bread, aren’t we sharing in the body of Christ? 17 And though we are many, we all eat from one loaf of bread, showing that we are one body.

Jesus is the loaf, we are slices of the loaf because we share the same body or loaf, that of Jesus himself.

If we are slices of the loaf and we are full of sin, how is the loaf itself sin free?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

1 Corinthians 10
16 When we bless the cup at the Lord’s Table, aren’t we sharing in the blood of Christ? And when we break the bread, aren’t we sharing in the body of Christ? 17 And though we are many, we all eat from one loaf of bread, showing that we are one body.

Jesus is the loaf, we are slices of the loaf because we share the same body or loaf, that of Jesus himself.

If we are slices of the loaf and we are full of sin, how is the loaf itself sin free?

This parable you mention above has NOTHING to do with sin or the nature of sin. He is talking with his Apostles at the last supper. Do you know what this parable discussion means?

Do you know that we are to continue this practice amongst ourselves? ONLY those that belong to Christ.

This is exactly what I am talking about when you start quoting scriptures.

Twisting scriptures to make your point.

You missed the mark.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


Yet Paul says we are all part of the same body and loaf, that of Jesus. If Christians share their body with Jesus, how is Jesus sin free? All Christians claim to be sinners.

Are you saying that Paul didn't really mean we share the body of Jesus? I'm not twisting anything, I'm just making a point, that a loaf of bread full of slices of sin cannot be sin free.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

Yet Paul says we are all part of the same body and loaf, that of Jesus. If Christians share their body with Jesus, how is Jesus sin free? All Christians claim to be sinners.

Are you saying that Paul didn't really mean we share the body of Jesus? I'm not twisting anything, I'm just making a point, that a loaf of bread full of slices of sin cannot be sin free.

Not all of us..... that is incorrect. Jesus was talking to his Apostles.

Paul is talking to his brothers and sisters in Christ.

At no time there is no mention of sin.

Jesus has accepted some sinners ........ NOT ALL SINNERS

Jesus accepts those who receive him and his teachings - a new covenant - a covenant between him and those who choose to follow him.

The bread and wine is symbolic to his new covenant that he made with his followers.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


But every single human being that has ever existed has been a sinner correct? So even those who are of the body of Christ are sinners correct?

If believers are slices within Jesus' loaf and each individual slice contains sin (because all men are sinners), then how can the loaf itself be sin free as Jesus is said to be? All the slices that make up his loaf are sinners, so he himself must be full of sin as well.

You can ignore the contradiction by saying sin isn't mentioned in that particular passage but sin is a given in Christian doctrine and permeates every part of Christianity. Sin is never out of the picture even if it isn't mentioned. Christian doctrine implies it every step of the way, so us being slices of a sin free loaf doesn't make sense if we are all sinners. The loaf itself is not sin free if all the slices that make up the loaf are full of sin.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

But every single human being that has ever existed has been a sinner correct? So even those who are of the body of Christ are sinners correct?

If believers are slices within Jesus' loaf and each individual slice contains sin (because all men are sinners), then how can the loaf itself be sin free as Jesus is said to be? All the slices that make up his loaf are sinners, so he himself must be full of sin as well.

You can ignore the contradiction by saying sin isn't mentioned in that particular passage but sin is a given in Christian doctrine and permeates every part of Christianity. Sin is never out of the picture even if it isn't mentioned. Christian doctrine implies it every step of the way, so us being slices of a sin free loaf doesn't make sense if we are all sinners. The loaf itself is not sin free if all the slices that make up the loaf are full of sin.

edit on 1-12-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Again not true. Jesus was a human being and he did not sin.

Those who believe and follow Jesus - their sins are washed away with his blood and these sins are not only forgiven but forgotten.

Sin is first mentioned in Genesis - the Old Testament so sin is not a Christian doctrine.

The Christian doctrine is not about sin but about Jesus. God who became flesh and died for those who choose to follow him. This is the short short version but grasps the importance of the teaching.

reply to post by EnochWasRight



Sorry for the delay…

Joecroft
But receiving the Holy Spirit, is something which happens in this life time, where as the, resurrection of the body comes later. (see my post further down)

Also Jesus says nothing about the receiving the Holy Spirit, requiring a resurrected body first. So I’m not even sure, why your putting the 2 together, in that manner…???

EnochwasRight
I have shown you this already. What did I show you on this topic? The resurrection started when the dead who were asleep in the grave woke up and rose to new life. This is being born again.

But this simply can’t be true…Because Jesus states that one must be “born again” in order to get there! And be able to enter in etc…

Which in simple terms, means that being “born again” can NOT equal being resurrected, because Jesus states that this being “born again” is the condition/state/prerequisites, by which one is able to enter in!

Again, it really all goes back to you believing that being “born again” is meant to be taken literally, which IMO just doesn’t fit the rest of the verses…

And the majority of Christians, who shared their opinions on my thread, are in agreement with this standard interpretation, with the sole exception, of yourself of course…

Joecroft
What do you mean by “when faith becomes fact”…? And how is it not yet present….please explain…?

EnochwasRight
At present, we have evidence for God, but we have not seen God face to face. In other words, we have not met the Father or Son.

Joecroft
Faith becomes fact, on the day you receive the Holy Spirit IMO…

EnochwasRight
You are correct. That day has not come yet.

You meet with God on that DAY you receive the Holy Spirit. (John 14:20)

The Father and the Son are the Holy Spirit IMO.

EnochwasRight
AMEN is AMN in Hebrew. It means TRUE. TRUTH is Aleph Mem Tav. Alpha and Omega with water in the middle. The water is baptism. It is not over until the Tav arrives. That is Christ (Two crossed sticks). Look up the meaning of Aleph Tav in the Bible.

The water (Mem) aspect, is what is experienced when you receive the Holy Spirit.

But the tav arrives, as Christ is part of the Holy Spirit, as is the Father, which is why when you receive it, it is completed…

EnochwasRight
I am showing you what you need to see. Get past pride and your eyes will open.

Pride isn’t the issue here, I’m the least prideful person you have probably ever encountered. The truth is that your clearly in a minority position, regarding your view on this.

So accusing myself of pride, when I’m standing with the majority Christian perspective on this topic, is just way off the mark…

Joecroft
And you still haven’t answered my question as to whether you have received the Holy Spirit…> In fact, you haven’t answered any of my questions, and yet you expect me to keep answering all of yours….

EnochwasRight
You perceive this because you have not listened to what has been said. None of us have received the Spirit if we are still baptized in the flesh. Unless you are a Spirit yourself, you are still a mix of beast and divine here in the wilderness.

Your phrase I highlighted above, is probably the very reason why you have not receive Holy Spirit yet, because of phrases like “None can receive the Spirit while we are still baptized in the flesh”…

There is no such thing, as baptized in the Flesh! There is only baptism in the Spirit, and this takes place while your walking around in this body, and in this lifetime…

You perceive what you think, because you have not listened to what Jesus has said…

John 14:15-18
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

John 14:23
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them

John 7:38-39
38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

ALL of the above verses are talking about the receiving the Holy Spirit, which is received while walking around in the flesh, in the here and now. The verses speak for themselves…

EnochwasRight
You are a sheep be moved by a Shepherd.

Do not be moved by my words, unless you find some truth in them.

Be instead moved by Jesus words, and the truth you can find within them…


- JC

reply to post by Fraudfinder


Yes sin is a Christian doctrine, the OT is part of the Christian bible and Christians are taught that they are sinners from birth, which is what Jesus came and died for, to save them from sin. How can you say sin isn't Christian doctrine when Paul stated that Adam brought sin into the world and that we are all sinners?

You're really grasping at straws now.