The majority thinks Christians are judgemental and stupid

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

But when you don't understand something, you refer to Paul. You just said so in your last post. You walk blindly in the shadow of death while following a man named Paul when you don't understand who says not to walk by sight.

Blind leading the blind.

No, I was merely stating what Paul was stating....That even though I may not understand now, one day I WILL fully understand. That is not Paul leading me. That's just me saying, yeah Paul, I can't wait til I can understand all this crazy stuff too!

A2D

windword


So, you're saying that you have to believe in God first, then you can follow his commandments, to love and to forgive. What if I can't force myself to believe?

Belief is not forced friend. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened. There is no force involved.

A2D

but yeah, if you don't believe in God then you don't love Him therefore you're not following his commands....you may be following all the other ones, but you're not loving and honoring God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind....which is btw, the greatest commandment of all....

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Speaking of perfect love:

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Christianity teaches to fear God. If you fear God then you are not made perfect in love.

1 John 4
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

If God is perfect love then why does he deal out eternal punishment in hell for not believing? Perfect love is supposed to drive out fear, and fear has to do with punishment (hell).

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


You believe something you do not understand. That is called blind faith, whether you acknowledge it or not.

I'm thinking that your immortal soul must have been in serious jeopardy to warrant a visitation of that caliber OP!A minor miracle,no?Of course the atheists poo-poo it.Like they've done with the miracles performed by Christ when mortal.Or Fatima,Lourdes,the stereotypical people that fell from several story building's and somehow lived or the small mothers who managed to lift cars off people.I feel the spirit of anti-Christ and his soon to be damned control ALL governments,the UN,Hollywood,essentially all mass media,police and courts.Yes the persecution of the Christians is a main element of Christian prophecy.This slaughter we begin in earnest when AC assumes control.There will be no denying Satan's reality then,I promise you.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Speaking of perfect love:

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Christianity teaches to fear God. If you fear God then you are not made perfect in love.

1 John 4
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

If God is perfect love then why does he deal out eternal punishment in hell for not believing? Perfect love is supposed to drive out fear, and fear has to do with punishment (hell).

Again, let's call it justice, not punishment. Justice has nothing to do with fear. Justice has everything to do with love.

The fear of God is irrational, yes. But what we miss is that we Fear the WRATH of God...We FEAR being a disappointment to Him...That's why when we hear "God-fearing man" we think, okay this guy honors God and keeps His commands....He's trustworthy...He's a good man...

Perfect love DOES INDEED drive out fear.

My dad was a loving man...but man did I fear him. How does it work? Well it works like this....We FEAR God, because He is a threat to our EGO. When we say we fear God, it literally means we honor Him.

But what about the love? Well love drives out a different kind of fear. Love wouldn't drive out HONOR would it? Nope. If I love God, I will HONOR Him, or FEAR Him. Perfect love drives out ACTUAL FEAR.

When you know you're loved by the creator of the Universe....there's absolutely nothing to be scared of.
So, yeah, definitely 2 different kinds of fear we need to pick up on in these verses....

A2D

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

You believe something you do not understand. That is called blind faith, whether you acknowledge it or not.

You know, leaves harness more of the sun's energy than scientists can explain...They don't understand how the leaves can absorb that much energy...BUT THEY BELIEVE IT. Blind faith scientists I guess....

A2D

(like I said in my previous post, I have reasons for my belief and therefore it is not BLIND....Just like the scientists have reason to believe there's a damn hurricane on Saturn but don't understand WHY...)

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


No... it is punishment. You can't go changing words around to make them mean something you want them to, that's not how it works. Perfect love drives out punishment, your god deals punishment, so he cannot be perfect love. It's basic logic.

The bible contradicts Christian doctrine, you just refuse to see it for fear of punishment, meaning you also are not made perfect in love. If you are not made perfect in love, you do not know the true God.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Yet those scientists have evidence that those leaves harness that energy, scientists have pictures and data to prove that there is a hurricane on (I believe you meant) Jupiter.

You're comparing apple's to oranges here, there is absolutely zero evidence whatsoever that Jesus died for our sins and that believing that ridiculousness saves you from eternal punishment. Zero, zilch, nada, none.

Scientists can see and document those leaves and that hurricane, there is no documenting or seeing Jesus saving us from sin and sending us to heaven. You have blind faith in something that can never ever ever be proven. Well... unless you die of course, which is awfully convenient for those donation plates being passed around at church.

What are your reasons for believing? Scientists have hard evidence of the energy those leaves collect and that hurricane on Jupiter. Where is your hard evidence? If you have none, it is blind faith, plain and simple.

Do you walk by faith and not by sight as Paul tells you to? Then you are blind being led by the blind. Jesus never said to do that did he? So you are being led by Paul's teachings in that situation, whether you want to see it or not.

undo

Tetrarch42
Quick question for those so inclined, is apostasy considered an unforgivable sin? Can I go to Heaven if I not only dislike the God and Jesus in the Bible, but do not even believe they exist?

thats a really good question. no one here but you can make that judgement call. that's why the entire subject is so personal. you have to decide if you want to "go to Heaven" . you might find it interesting to know that jesus said heaven is right where you are, right now. thus, it must be existing simultaneously in a dimension just slightly out of phase with our own.

Doesn't God establish the rules for how one reaches heaven? Could a murderer just decide they want to go to heaven and go?

When did Jesus say the here and now is heaven?

What's wrong with thinking they're stupid? They believe something that has no evidence and has been proved wrong countless times.

They also think people who don't believe the same as them are going to burn in hellfire for all eternity, which is pretty damn judgemental.

EnochWasRight
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

After spending 51 years seeing Christians as judgmental rather obtuse cultists I can now see something is misleading mankind. We are not so much judgmental, we just do not want that evil to be near us. Christians have tried very hard to get others to see the light but that seemed to mostly fail.

I see the campaign against the Christians now, its a full court press. A lot of Christians have been misled too and have been a bad example at times. Old scratch is not called the great deceiver for nothing, he is slicker than a New York advertising firm. If its slick, its not of goodness. I see the world becoming "slick" via Hollywood.

Something is not right in the world, something dark is here. With the prick of my thumbs something wicked this way comes. A lot of Christians are waking up and are not pointing there fingers anymore. Judge not...

I think your point here is valid, but it can be seen more clearly if you take sin into consideration. When a Christian like you or me proclaims salvation from Christ, we are not demonstrating this salvation as freedom from sin. We are not free from sin any more than an Atheist. We are set free from sin at a later date. The only thing we have is a hope of this salvation.

To the unbeliever, this looks like hypocrisy. We are claiming something we cannot demonstrate, which is mastery over sin and death. As Christians, we will continue to sin and we will all die. There is NO difference other than our hope, which is in the one that has overcome. We cannot overcome ourselves, and this shows us to be equal to everyone else on this Earth.

If you read a recent thread I did, you will see the point here: Righteousness, Self-Righteousness and Wickedness.

I can clearly tell you that I am a follower of Christ, but my sin is always before me. The hunger to do wrong is still there, yet I have a hope that my future baptism into a new life will be free from this. Becoming a Christian does not bring salvation in this life. Yes, it brings a more fruitful life. There is no doubt that we are changed when we start the process of walking away from our sin. We are changed, but not finished with the process. It brings a future hope of salvation as the promise of removing the curse. Until then, we are simply walking away while others are walking into the pit further.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

We are waiting. Salvation comes at a later date. Until then, you must be born again. Baptism is the involution of the soul into the material world for the purpose of repenting. We are ALL here for this purpose. It's a work in progress. When a Christian claims a changed life, it is true, yet sin remains.

Those who condemn Christians as hypocrites do not see the facts. Christians are proclaiming the truth, yet we are ALL out of context to that truth. Only truth can condemn the soul. A Christian cannot judge or condemn anyone apart from self-righteousness, which is itself wickedness.

We are commanded to judge not. Simply proclaim the truth that is our hope for the future.

edit on 25-10-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

It is good you proclaim yourself as a Christian. I would like to add that you can free yourself from habitual sins, overcome negative thoughts, irrational feelings etc.... you are in bondage to your sins.

I recommend you read, The Bondage Breaker and Victory over Darkness both written by Neil T. Anderson. It will help you in breaking the bonds. A wealth of information in setting you free.

God bless you.

Tetrarch42

undo

Tetrarch42
Quick question for those so inclined, is apostasy considered an unforgivable sin? Can I go to Heaven if I not only dislike the God and Jesus in the Bible, but do not even believe they exist?

thats a really good question. no one here but you can make that judgement call. that's why the entire subject is so personal. you have to decide if you want to "go to Heaven" . you might find it interesting to know that jesus said heaven is right where you are, right now. thus, it must be existing simultaneously in a dimension just slightly out of phase with our own.

Doesn't God establish the rules for how one reaches heaven? Could a murderer just decide they want to go to heaven and go?

When did Jesus say the here and now is heaven?

correct me if i'm wrong but our consciousness creates 3d reality from a wave of potentials. you understand, that means we are creating reality. otherwise, reality only exists as potential that hasn't yet been realized.



this ability was imparted to us by our god because, spiritual speaking, we were copied in the image of our elohim (gods). so what god were you copied in the image of, initially?
according to jesus, we are gods, existing in a temporary flesh container that can access the "spiritual domain". so my theory is that we are quantumly entangled with our own perfected god bodies, which exist in a different dimensional phase than this one we are currently in.

however, the rules of engagement if you will, require you actually want to go there and believe its possible. theoretically, our flesh hampers this realization, but the text indicates that faith is the primary means of realization. you have to believe it before you can access it. for example, your consciousness requires you to make a choice, and upon making it, your faith creates it via your consciousness.

as far as the heaven is among you thing, google it. as an act of faith. hehe

reply to post by Agree2Disagree
\

Belief is not forced friend. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened. There is no force involved.

What if I did SEEK and I did knock, but the revelations that I received led me to believe that the god of the Bible is NOT "GOD"?

reply to post by windword


I am not Catholic for one thing, for another I do not think a child taking fruit from someone else's tree is a sin. I think God meant for us all to be fed and children are an innocent. I do not believe in Catholic doctrine nor mainstream Christian for that matter.

I do follow The Way of Christ though.

There are layers upon layers of dimensions, one Christ called heaven is not somewhere else it is here layered with this one. So is what the Christians refer to as hell. I don't think you go there forever for sin, but you can if you never learn enough to go to the positive dimensional realms.

Angels come from these dimensions, fallen angels come from the darker dimensions.

Look at the Alien Abduction phenomenon. They seem to appear from nowhere and disappear into nowhere. They are almost always orbs of light. We never see the traffic coming from space because they are here but in a different phase.

windword
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

\

Belief is not forced friend. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened. There is no force involved.

What if I did SEEK and I did knock, but the revelations that I received led me to believe that the god of the Bible is NOT "GOD"?

GOD can see what is in each man's heart. A man who does not not repent will not be shown the way to God.

Now surely there is a lot of wrong that has been done but the other danger we have is that we are taking things from one extreme to another. And that is not judging at all.
The Bible doesn't tell us not to judge period, it tells us not to judge in certain contexts.

If you're familiar with the Bible you'll recall where it says you'll know them by their fruits, where it tells us to test every spirit, compare every teaching/doctrine with the scripture, correct one another and so on.
Things such as these are now labelled as being judgmental but is there any of us here who'll take advice from someone who doesn't follow it? I don't think so, but why is that being judgmental as well?

What is happening these days is such things that Christianity expects us to do are now being dismissed as judging. The wrong kind of judging, the only message i seem to get out of it is 'leave me to what i want, mind your own business' But it is our business. We are one body and so ones wrong doing will mislead others and cause them to fall so it must be corrected.

How do you reconcile the two? The way I see it, it's not a matter of either or.
That other verse about a plank in ones eye was about hypocrisy, that is, you should not be guilty of the same thing that you're correcting your brother. Otherwise you'll just get the classic 'you're the last person to tell me about...' kind of response. But you'll never hear the rest of that verse whenever this example is brought up.

So what's happening now days in the church is that leaders and other christian role models we look up to are doing things that are not biblical and no ones supposed to say anything about it. You just get labelled judgmental instead, and they keep on misleading the sheep. When it comes to solving differences, the bible says if something wrong is done in private then correct it as such but if it be in public then the correction should also be in public for the sake of those others, the young ones in the faith that might be misled by the wrong. And what has happened for some people is that they were dismissed as haters. Others threatened with a law suit.

In the end, you have lots of Christians or used to be Christians just staying at home because it's just not church any more. Many times there is nothing in there that will change them and they just see the world in the church. All you have is people getting what they want to hear, which on it's own is not bad but the problem is they don't get the other half of it, the part they don't want to hear but have to hear. So they flock does not get their proper nourishment, becomes weak and dies. A dead church.

Please realize that church leaders are also expected to guard the flock from danger and that means safe guarding the believers from influences that will cause division, confusion and so on. The wolf in sheep's skin or just the plain old wolf in broad day light. They're getting bold. The sad part is that doing this will bring the broad brush in your direction.

There are things that are not acceptable in the Bible and we as Christians should not try to embrace those practices in the name of loving thy neighbor. It doesn't matter that they call it hate or whatever. There are even hate crimes these days. Jesus came to change people and being christian means your life has to change as well. You're not going to come in with everything that you were and keep them with you. You have to let go, there's a price to pay, there're things you must give up. Not everything will go at once, but they will go.

I believe a society of any kind religious, social, political etc are held together by rules.
Where anything and everything is acceptable, the society breaks down. What's the point of disobeying a rule of a society and claiming to be a part of it? the only thing can be to turn it into what you want it to be, or perhaps just destroy it from within.

undo

Tetrarch42

undo

Tetrarch42
Quick question for those so inclined, is apostasy considered an unforgivable sin? Can I go to Heaven if I not only dislike the God and Jesus in the Bible, but do not even believe they exist?

thats a really good question. no one here but you can make that judgement call. that's why the entire subject is so personal. you have to decide if you want to "go to Heaven" . you might find it interesting to know that jesus said heaven is right where you are, right now. thus, it must be existing simultaneously in a dimension just slightly out of phase with our own.

Doesn't God establish the rules for how one reaches heaven? Could a murderer just decide they want to go to heaven and go?

When did Jesus say the here and now is heaven?

correct me if i'm wrong but our consciousness creates 3d reality from a wave of potentials. you understand, that means we are creating reality. otherwise, reality only exists as potential that hasn't yet been realized.

this ability was imparted to us by our god because, spiritual speaking, we were copied in the image of our elohim (gods). so what god were you copied in the image of, initially?
according to jesus, we are gods, existing in a temporary flesh container that can access the "spiritual domain". so my theory is that we are quantumly entangled with our own perfected god bodies, which exist in a different dimensional phase than this one we are currently in.

however, the rules of engagement if you will, require you actually want to go there and believe its possible. theoretically, our flesh hampers this realization, but the text indicates that faith is the primary means of realization. you have to believe it before you can access it. for example, your consciousness requires you to make a choice, and upon making it, your faith creates it via your consciousness.

as far as the heaven is among you thing, google it. as an act of faith. hehe

A couple of questions.

How do you prove that "our consciousness creates 3d reality from a wave of potentials"? I don't know why you place this emphasis on "potentials", what do you mean by potentials and how do you know the universe isn;t deterministic? In any case, this just seems like you're rephrasing an argument for free will.

Can you demonstrate that two entities in two different dimensions can be quantumly entangled?

In terms of "require you actually want to go there and believe its possible". Well, that doesn't work very well because belief is not governed by will. I couldn't be convinced that God exists any more than I could be convinced that water is dry or that clear skies are the colour green.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

No... it is punishment. You can't go changing words around to make them mean something you want them to, that's not how it works. Perfect love drives out punishment, your god deals punishment, so he cannot be perfect love. It's basic logic.

The bible contradicts Christian doctrine, you just refuse to see it for fear of punishment, meaning you also are not made perfect in love. If you are not made perfect in love, you do not know the true God.

I can't change words? Why not? You do. You have changed "eternal damnation" into "punishment" why can't I change it into "justice"? and Perfect love does not drive out PUNISHMENT it drives out FEAR. You have changed words again...but yet I'm not supposed to do it. Double standard anyone?

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


What does his judgement have to do with? Punishment for not believing. Sure, call it judgement if you want, but it doesn't take away the fact that the judgement deals with punishment.

Fear has to do with punishment, so if perfect love drives out fear, it also drives out the punishment as well. Your God deals judgement/punishment, meaning he does not drive out fear, meaning he cannot be perfect love.