Your Money Is No Good Here: How Our Upside Down Flag Caused Local Business Owner to Turn Us Away!

reply to post by MOMof3


You had given me hope the other day, hope that there were people out there who truly cared about the state this nation has become, and hope that together, we could change it all.

It was for this purpose that I was swallowing my grief and standing this morning. I got in the shower for the first time since my daughter died, and said, 'we the people' can do this. And I started working on a thread, one that I thought we could all agree to in large part.. a plan which would work for everyone.

It would've given everyone what they said wanted;

1) an ultimatum of time for our elected officials to start changing things or next election we as a nation would stand together in the polls and vote them all out. ie; a non-violent protest that would make a serious difference.

It was an plan with something for everyone to do, even those who cannot get out much, ie: a petition to circulate and a word to get out and spread across this nation.

A way for a war inside these borders between brothers to be averted, only to be used as a last resort.

You had given me hope for that, and today I was working diligently upon a working plan. To be presented when it was correct and complete with possibly only a few changes to be made, as we all, together, saw fit.

But now I saw this... someone came in and played the race card and here you are willing to live in a socialist state rather than a free country with truly representative elected officials. I said before, and I will say it again, this is how they got away with it... everyone says "OMG I cant be seen as a racist" and off they go getting away with their socialist agenda.

This is not about Obama, this started long before, but through Obama, they are getting away with the implementation of the worst of their programs. How? They play the race card.

My best friend is a very large black man. I live in the middle of a very black community. No one can call me racist. But I do know the damn truth, and people like you just don't give a crap about the crisis that this country is in....You and those like you, are the reason for it.

reply to post by SilentKillah

See as I'm a black man, I'm afraid that if Martin Luther King had done something like hang a flag upside down and had signs saying Impeach Kennedy, I'd be using a black only bathroom and shopping at colored stores today. He would have been labeled crazy and not gained the popularity to accomplish the tasks that he was able to.

It's unreasonable to consider that these people are in dire distress or duress when they obviously are sitting at computer screens and can afford internet to even post in these forums. They are not captured, tortured, or even stuck on a rooftop as water is 10 feet high. That is a reason to turn your flag upside down. I guess these people can't even remember to story of the boy who cried wolf.

This symbol is an insult to me as a veteran and my military comrads. I too would refuse business and/or disassociate myself from a person that tried to justify this by a non-existent hardship.

See now here is a problem. You have brought the subject of race into this. They did not say anything about what color the dealer was have they? You are dragging this off topic.
Now If a white colored person did what was done to the OP If the OP was not white as well they would be called a racist and it would be illegal to refuse to sell to them right? See the double standard there?

Also Jumping to conclusions on the state of people who protest this way is also very bad to do. Some people go to the library because they cannot aford a computer themselves. That is free internet at the library.

Also I know some military people who would disagree with you on the upside down flag as a insult. SO please speak for yourself instead of tossing them all in one pile.

I have to ask just because Obama is african american do you think he can do no wrong? It seems like that is what you are saying in your reply on the page.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Dont you think the tea party and republicans are playing their poker hand the wrong way? I mean they look desperate lately and dont even accomplish anything. They could accept that obama won, take the good with the bad, and wait till next year this time to vote as many senators and representatives out as they wish.

Voting does mean something. I dont believe the vote count is rigged. This isnt ethiopia yet. Its just that people vote according to their mainstream beliefs influenced by msm. There are many candidates and parties to choose from IF they want to.

By the way, I am sorry for the lose of your daughter. Its never easy for the family and relatives.

Oops.

Wrong thread.

AlienScience

Exactly.

They claim they are in distress because Obama is President...it's just one more ridiculous act in a long string of ridiculous acts by the Obama haters. We have had..."He's a socialist", "He's a communist", "He's a Fascists", "He's gay", "He's the anti-Christ", "He's a Muslim", "He's a Kenyan", "He's a terrorist", "He's a dictator"...along with all the idiotic acts people have done such as the failed motorcycle rally, the failed trucker protest, the tri-corner hats, the gadsend flag, "Nobama" stickers...and now this...an upside down flag.

The only distress these people are in is that I think they have finally figured out that they are a small dying minority that no longer hold much influence over this country. They are old, they are outdated, and they are in the minority in their antiquated thinking.

The good thing is that this is just their final death screams...and that is why they are so bitter and desperate.

You're probably right.

The future does appear to belong to the proletariat... or at least those who control them, as I've witnessed here. The proletariat will, as they always do, think THEY are in the driver's seat... which is hilarious, watching the cognitive dissonance of them thinking they are directing any damned thing for themselves at all, while simultaneously towing the Party line, given to them by their handlers, and promoting someone else's agenda.

I AM old, I AM outdated, used up and ready for the trash heap of life. I spent my entire youth, wasted it really, fighting against the death of individual freedom, only to watch it crawl slowly and inexorably into my own back yard, like some deranged zombie seeking to feast on the flesh of it's betters, a free people.

I spent my life fighting against it, and will now spend my death doing the same. Of course you will win - it's the way of the world, I suppose - but don't think we are going to go down without leaving some sort of mark to show we were here.

You may have your hive-like society of robots. You can have it, because us ancient individual types want nothing to do with it. many of us have already seen it before in microcosm, in this country or that, and are aware of the death it brings in tow. We're not gonna go out like that, bowing and scraping to the Master or his hive, but there is little doubt in my mind that we WILL go out. There just aren't enough of us any more.

I don't, and never did, want a world like that for my own progeny. I wanted them to be able to celebrate their individuality, their creativity, and their freedom to do so. Since they will not be able to do that, I'd rather see THEM die first as well as me. The life of a slave is no life at all, not worth living.

My line ends here. When your world rises out of the ashes, you'll be able to say you earned it...

... for your Masters.

We will not be living in it.

We choose Death before Dishonor. You don't, and in that you will doubtless win. There are more fearful, timid, slavish people in the world these days than there are free men. You will win out of weight of sheer numbers, rather than any sort of political superiority, but you will win nonetheless.

SO - keep on towing that party line. keep on trying to blame it on a false racism, Obama hatred, or whatever you like. It's not about Obama, and started long before his time. He is nothing more than a figurehead for the insidious zombiefied beast behind him, a target for the masses to direct their ire at while the beast prowls unchecked and unnoticed. Obama was set up for that very purpose. A distraction.

Obama is not worthy of my ire.

But please continue with the whines of "racism" and "Obama-haters". It seems to have worked very well for your Masters so far.

When it doesn't work out all that well for YOU in the end, however, don't say you weren't warned. You won't be saying it to me, however.

I'll be dead.

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Dont you think the tea party and republicans are playing their poker hand the wrong way? I mean they look desperate lately and dont even accomplish anything. They could accept that obama won, take the good with the bad, and wait till next year this time to vote as many senators and representatives out as they wish.

Voting does mean something. I dont believe the vote count is rigged. This isnt ethiopia yet. Its just that people vote according to their mainstream beliefs influenced by msm. There are many candidates and parties to choose from IF they want to.

By the way, I am sorry for the lose of your daughter. Its never easy for the family and relatives.

edit on 28/10/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your condolences. Your right, its never easy.

I think the republicans are very wrong right now, and I am not with the tea party either... that was taken over by the GOP from what I heard long ago.

I voted, as I said before, the first time for Obama. But, it was apparent after he was in office a year and a half that he was only there to further the policies enacted by prior elected officials. Right now there is one agenda, regardless of party in Washington today.

And that agenda is not one that is for the people and by the people. They are tearing up the constitution, and destroying this country socially and economically in the process, in order to replace what was fought for in this country to a socialist state.

I stand with none of them, "We", all "The People", need now to stand for what is right for this country... NO ONE else is doing it.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


With all due respect, I dont see a socialist state forming. I see a tyranical world government forming after the american economy implodes, and "the elite" decide to institute a digital currency with rfid chips and what not.

Its scary indeed. Occupy tried, Tea Party tried. To some degree they were successful. I am just not sure the appropriate issues have been raised in time to prevent everything. We did prevent WW3 though this summer and that is a good beginning.

burdman30ott6
The United States government can be as obtrusive, overbearing, and downright distastefull as it wishes to be and can demand supplication from its citizens, all while still flying the same flag, unchanged in appearance or symbol.

I have never seen the flag as belonging to the United States Government. I see it as belonging to the people...as does the Government for that matter.

burdman30ott6
It exists in its present state to demonstrate that, no matter how close to being the "bad guys" the US gets, no matter how many of our traditional morals the US violates, and no matter how many of the principles the country was built on get trod upon, the symbolism is there and along with it is peer pressure to constantly start waving the damn thing back and forth.

I appreciate your view, but the pledge to me has never included Government or it's officials, nor it's laws or policies.
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The Republic is the unity of the differing states and people. Liberty and justice for all is self explanatory.

For which it stands...not which it is.

It is not an endorsement of any administration or policy, but an endorsement of unity of principles of the people.

just my opinion.

burdman30ott6
So what happens? As soon as the water starts getting too warm, some event, conflict, or disaster occurs and immediately the flag is waved rapidly back and forth and like lemmings Americans go into patriotic mode. I'm sorry, but celebrating the flag doesn't equal patriotism any more than wearing a crucifix equals Christianity or rooting for the Sooners equals being an OU alum. Equally speaking you can be a rabid Patriot, a devout Christian, and a graduate from OU with honors and never once celebrate the US flag, wear a crucifix, or give a flip about a Sooner game.

Right...the flag is exploited and patriotism should never be measured in the size of a flag-pin. Agreed

I know someone that similarly to yourself and was relentlessly hammered by the right wing for it...

WATERLOO, Iowa — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, D-Ill., said he will no longer wear an American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for “true patriotism” since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

He commented on the pin in a television interview Wednesday and then again on Thursday at a campaign appearance in Independence, Iowa.

“My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart," he told the campaign crowd Thursday. "You show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who serve. You show your patriotism by being true to our values and ideals. That’s what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals.”

He had been asked about the pin Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids.

“The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin,” Obama said. “Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.”

Obama was campaigning Thursday on the third day of a four-day trip to the early voting state.

www.nbcnews.com...

burdman30ott6
Like I said before, I seriously hope and pray that all the brave men and women from our military who have fought and died over the years offered their lives for something more concrete than some colord fabric sewed together. I say that because I believe they fought for something that was a hell of a lot more free with a much deeper respect for liberty than the USA circa 2013, and last I checked the only thing that flag represents right now, today, is America in the present day.

Objects hold the power of symbolism. A flag is just "colored fabric sewed together" a gravestone is just a rock. I own a watch that does not work? Is it useless or is it an heirloom passed down from father to son for almost 200 years? I don't choose to see it as an old broken watch...and I also respect what others choose to see as symbols...because I ask them to respect my own.

It's OK we differ in that regard.

Displaying the flag upside-down? If it was just "colored fabric sewed together" than what is the purpose of the display?

The answer is in the question. OF COURSE the flag has meaning. It is why it is burned in the streets in places of strife around the world and it is why it was flown upside down in the first place.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Whatever we see will change this nation forever if we allow it to stand. And it will turn this country into hell, a hell our forefathers fought and died to prevent.

There is still a chance for this nation, but only if we stand together, undivided. There is a reason it is said, United they stand, Divided they fall. Currently, we are a divided nation and they are working to keep us this way, they WANT this division...

Its the only way they can win. We have divided other countries in order to win against their governments. Only a United Nation cannot fall... only united can we hold our ground against invading forces. And invading they are, regardless of what it appears.

They have infiltrated us at the highest levels, and are ruining everything this country stood for. We CAN change this, we have the POWER to change it.

UNITED.

BTW. WW3 was not averted, only postponed should they have their way.

reply to post by daryllyn


The reason why I only partly sympathize with you, is that like many other conservatives, you fail to realize that:

- President Obama did not adopt the country's current NSA policies or procedures. The NSA, CIA & other agencies with high security clearances have violated the constitution since their inception. To ignore that is well, ignorant.

- The economic downturn that was initiated before the Fall of 2007, was not created under the current Administration. People with your political views seem to ignore (Or be oblivious of) that. It is a direct result of the tax cuts and loopholes that were put in place by conservatives in congress, who promised that those cuts would translate into more jobs. As predicted, they did not. Of course there are other factors at play like foreign aid and our failing education system. THAT needs to be addressed first. If you think the earth is 6,000 old and we should put bibles in schools, you are part of the problem.

- The health care policies pushed by the current administration, were previously supported by Republicans and the current media rush to demonize it, is pure politics. People like you, simply eat it up because you WANT a reason not to like this president.

I am convinced that you are one of those people that assume anyone that calls out those facts is automatically Democrat or a staunch Obama supporter. I'm neither a Democrat or a big fan of socially liberal politicians....but I really dislike uninformed political propaganda and ignorance. I bet you watch Fox News and eat up all the misinformation that Glen Beck and Sean Hannity spew.

I for one think your situation is funny and just as I support your right to display or talk about your political views, I support that car lot's right to not sell you something.



EDIT: This country is no more in distress than it was under Nixon, Reagen or Bush. The only difference is that we have the internet and information spreads like wildfire.

reply to post by LogicalRazor


I watch the "misinformation" alex jones spews. Its better quality then sean hannity and glenn beck. Glenn Beck doesn't scream as much lately and its a bit of a downer. If you are going to be crazy, i mean you might as well go allllllll the way. (lol)

reply to post by LogicalRazor


Below you assume that because I'm an 'Obama hater', that I must be conservative.

The reason why I only partly sympathize with you, is that like many other conservatives

Then here, you accuse me of making a similar assumption, only with the tables turned.

I am convinced that you are one of those people that assume anyone that calls out those facts is automatically Democrat or a staunch Obama supporter

Pots and kettles come to mind.

I bet you watch Fox News and eat up all the misinformation that Glen Beck and Sean Hannity spew.

No, sorry... Please try again.

And, no, before you go there, I'm not an Alex Jones fan, either. Not that there's anything wrong with that. To each their own.

I for one think your situation is funny and just as I support your right to display or talk about your political views, I support that car lot's right to not sell you something.

That's fine. I don't care which side you agree with.

- President Obama did not adopt the country's current NSA policies or procedures. The NSA, CIA & other agencies with high security clearances have violated the constitution since their inception. To ignore that is well, ignorant.

Don't think for a minute that I don't realize the problems are deeper than Obama. Also remember that the Obama aspect in all of this does NOT originate with me. I like that everyone keeps bringing it up and berating me for it, though. I won't be sorry when his term is up and I'm sure the next guy won't be much better.

This country is no more in distress than it was under Nixon, Reagen or Bush. The only difference is that we have the internet and information spreads like wildfire.

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

Your argument was mostly based on pure assumption as to what camp I'm in, the assumptions I supposedly make about others (read through the thread and you'll see that I never called anyone on their political affiliation or assumed I knew it based on their posting), and the news sources you assume I follow.

Now, do you see how I replied without condescension? And without multiple assumptions?

daryllyn

This country is no more in distress than it was under Nixon, Reagen or Bush. The only difference is that we have the internet and information spreads like wildfire.

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

edit on 28-10-2013 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

That's swell, but you can't ignore what Reagan did to butcher our relations in the Middle East during the 1980's. The consequences resonate now more than ever. We toppled leaders, voiced our support for some religious groups over others, sold arms to our future enemies & funded Islamic risings/rebellions. Not to mention trickle-down economics. That's right. The idea that if you give the top income bracket breaks (And in some cases tax refunds) that they will go against their nature and invest more in labor, rather than enjoy higher margins to increase the value of their stocks & make shareholders happy. It was ridiculous then, and it is ridiculous now. This country's golden years after WWII, saw the highest tax rates for the upper 5%. We had a surplus, we did not treat corporations like people...and we paid our bills. Nixon? Yeah, he was a peach. What he did to help banks rape the financial system and what he did to lower the value of the dollar ...we've never recovered from. So while I agree that the good ol US of A is a mess right now, I am not going to be easily convinced that your upside down flag is little more than your dislike and discontent with the current administration. [SNIP].

Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

edit on 29/10/13 by argentus because: Removed insult

reply to post by LogicalRazor

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas

(1884-1968) six-time U.S. Presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

[Ed. note: Norman Thomas and Gus Hall, the U.S. Communist Party Candidate, both quit American politics, agreeing that the Republican and Democratic parties by 1970 had adopted every plank on the Communist/Socialist agenda and they no longer had an alternate party platform on which to run.]

We were warned, time and time again we were warned that we would one day be here. And now we are.

I am 44 years old. I heard warnings in the 1980's that if we did not put the brakes on that we would end up exactly where we are today. I did not heed those warnings. Very few paid any attention.

Now we are here, it took me til a few years ago to realize those warnings were not only dead serious but almost prophetic in nature they came to fruition such as they did.

We see it now because we are in the thick of it.... but those who are only now honestly realizing the state of this nation for what it is, does not mean that they are wrong, or should be faulted for their inability to see this coming much earlier. The majority of us were wrong for a very long time...

Now we are here, in the thick of it all... It is not time to berate those only now coming to this realization, it is time to come together as a nation and put a stop to it, and do quite a bit of backing the hell up!

reply to post by LogicalRazor

I'd wager my devalued dollars that you would likely advise your son/daughter NOT to marry a minority. Yes, I went there.

So, I'm racist now?

Where you could have possibly gotten that, I won't pretend to understand. If its because I don't like Obama and you think its racially related, think again.

I teach my children to be tolerant of everyone. I want them to marry who makes them happy, and I would care little about their status, minority or not.

If you insist on continuing to make unfounded assumptions about my character, I'm going to have decline continuing this conversation.

Edited to add:

I see you are pretty new around here. You might not know that ATS frowns on that kind of thing. Civility and decorum is part of what sets this place apart. Check out the terms and conditions, its all laid out within.

reply to post by daryllyn


IMHO this is a classic case of someone thinking this sign means anarchy!
Maybe you would be better off with a flag with Walmart, BP, Time warner,
Halliburton, etc, etc insignia! I think that would be a better way of representing
the USA of today!

MOMof3
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

I like your post. After much thought and participation in this thread, I just can't swallow it. It just does not feel right to hang the flag upside down for a protest.

But,you and I are in the minority here, I think. This is a ironic statement. I was born in Mississippi, a poor white girl in 1951. I remember the separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, sitting in the back of restaurants. I remember in the first grade passing the school bus with the black children. I remember it all. I also remember, my house did not have indoor plumbing and no heat. I lived with my grandparents then. As I grew I use to wonder, who the heck am I? I left the South when I was 14 and it was a real culture shock in the 60's but glad it happened.

I was kinda wondering if it was a generational thing. It would be interesting to know the age groups of those participating in the thread. In my life I have known and worked with people in all different service groups as well as multitude of civilians serving the country. Note i said the country and not the government.

I also got to meet people working for other countries, including Russia and their old satellite countries. The common thread across all these people and countries, including socialist, was the deep belief and patriotism toward their flags, their countries and yes their leaders. The thing is many of the people I met and had privilege to work or interact with were from countries much worse than ours could EVER be.

I find it ironic now how for instance a large group from Bosnia which contained people from both sides. This by itself was a big thing, but what struck me was how thankful they were to be here and how much they cared about a silly thing like their new flag. New citizens know more of our history and what the flag means than most of the people turning it upside down and that is sad.

I would also venture to say and agree that most don't know what real distress is. Yes there are some, but sadly most don't. Distress was Katrina or even other hurricane events where your are into your third week with out power and food and water and money etc. Vehicles damaged or no gas to go anywhere. That was the beginning of feeling distress for me. It actually was but guess what, we did not have to turn our flag upside down, you know why?

Because the same government and organizations we seem to some be saying is evil and terrible was there to help. And I am not talking about Katrina now but later. Point is this is America and we are not babies and the sky is not falling but even if it did we would be OK. We, blue, red, independent, Americans, we are bigger than that. We know that we can change, we know that we can come through together no matter what and we don't have to disrespect our flag to do it.

I love my country and as corny as it sounds all of you, whether you agree or not. You see that is what makes our flag and country special. No where else in the world do people have all the rights we do. What makes us great in the end is us and that we really can agree to disagree.

Night all, have a good Tuesday.

The Bot

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I can see why many people are concerned with usa becoming a socialist state, but in reality it is misguided hyperbole and ignorance. They confuse croney capitalism that pushes bailouts left and right as socialism(when in socialism only publicly owned industries get bailed out when necessary), they confuse big government that likes to spy and go to war as a nanny state when its simply corporate imperialism, they confuse welfare statism which is neoliberal ideology as socialism.

Neoliberalism has nothing to do with progressive politics, it has everything to do with elite globalism.

Neoconservatives are not much better either. Keynesians that simply prefer spending a little more on the military than they do on welfare.

The globalists are pretty smart. They have hijacked both big parties under this fake progressive agenda to get as many people on their bandwagon as they can. They have succeeded to a large degree. The $17 trillion debt proves it.

Real socialist countries like cuba and north korea are always under the UN microscope with an embargo on them and threatened by war. JFK threatened to invade cuba, Obama threatened to invade or at least attack north korea last year.

I am NOT for socialism, just for more nationalism. I guess it boils down to if semantics are important or not. I hate so many people being misinformed.

LET'S DIAL IT DOWN A BIT......

Please post toward the topic and not each other. Eye on the ball.

Thank you

MOMof3
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Ok. So here it is 2am and instead of waking up thinking about how to get through my day, here I am because of you. I'm convinced. You seem to have all the answers. I'm in. Where do we start this change? Unless it is just a line of BS and it is all about going after the president, or gays, or abortion.

I am good at writing letters. How do people like us who have disabled dependents even get out of the house to cause change?

Mom, we are financially poor, below the poverty line. But we are rich in every other way. We are blessed in raising our precious granddaughter. We have a home and six acres, well the bank does. They won't give us a new harp loan with out a new appraisal and we don't have four hundred dollars for it lol. I am also in darys protected class. I have been lucky enough to have lived in three states and visit all but a few.

I have been blessed to be able to serve our country and spend time in Europe and other countries and meet wonderful people from all over the world and see allot of things. Despite my many problems, including four broken teeth that has increased my already terrible pain levels way beyond what I can stand and I already on some powerful message lol. I could go on with the the bad stuff but you get picture and the point is we are blessed.

Have i said we live in the greatest country in the world lol. Yes I have been in distress many times in life and am in great physical stress now. But even now I would not turn my Flag upside down. Because my life is not in danger and despite all the hot air neither is my country.

We will be just fine. Soon free energy will come along and bring with it the beginning of a new world with less emphasis on money.

Mom i am with you and will help. First we need a sane independent third party that has it's only mandate is to take enough seats in Congress to force the other two to work together and compromise. Well mom there is more we need to do but this third day without sleep. I will try and finish later.

I love my country and all of you, we can do it.

The Bot