NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

reply to post by sulaw

I agree, right now most Americans are more concerned with survival. And part of that survival reflex is "I'm so stressed and fried out right now I just need a break, let's see what's on tv." And, things are only going to get worse. I'm not going to derail my own thread by going off on the tangents of how and why things are so tough, but it is a factor that needs to be overcome in order to get any kind of reaction from the public.
As far as why we haven't stood up to this, I think there are 2 main points. First of all, the MSM coverage of this has been light, sporadic, and overshadowed by the shutdown, Obamacare, immigration reform, etc. It's hard to get the public worked up when the only coverage about this is a 60 second blip stuck between Miley Cyrus twerking and a commerical.
Secondly, I think everyone's buying into the "If you have nothing to hide, then there's no reason to worry. We're only hunting terrorists, and you aren't on the terrorists side, are you?" It's my hope that this latest story will highlight that it's NOT for the purpose of finding terrorists at all, and from that we can build up some kind a resistance to that general concept in the public eye.
As far as what I've been doing about it, I share this information whenever I run across it with my family and friends, and encourage them to do the same. It's taken nearly 7 years, but I have managed to sway the general opinions of close to 100 people toward paying more attention to and being more critical of what the government is doing. It may not seem like much, but waking up that many sleepers and convincing them to take part will have a ripple effect. At least that's my hope. You know, the "they tell 2 friends, who tell 2 friends" kind of thing. When I started, all I got were crazy looks and uncomfortable shuffling. Now they nod along and offer opinions, and occassionally one of them even finds a story before I do. So there's that.

reply to post by C21H30O2I

I think it mostly has to do with the fact the American public hasn't demanded on yet. They have been cajoled by the "We're protecting you from terrorists, and if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" propaganda line that's been thrown at us since the Bush days.
I also think the public needs to learn from the lessons of the past, which means those of us trying to warn people what's going on need to find a new way to relay that information. Unfortunately comparing the current setup to Nazi Germany has been so overdone people just tune it out now, even though it's a completely apt comparison.

reply to post by crimvelvet

I'm certain there is more than one person supplying information of this nature to the NSA. IN fact, they're actively seeking as many as possible.

"From time to time, SID is offered access to the personal contact databases of US officials," it states. "Such 'Rolodexes' may contain contact information for foreign political or military leaders, to include direct line, fax, residence and cellular numbers."

"This success leads S2 [signals intelligence] to wonder if there are NSA liaisons whose supported customers may be willing to share their 'Rolodexes' or phone lists with NSA as potential sources of intelligence," it states. "S2 welcomes such information!"

reply to post by crimvelvet

As I stated above, the first thing we need to do is to get the information out to as many people as possible. Not the MSM spin, but the REAL info. The true nature and extent of this program, and the others the government is running under the radar that we keep getting wind of. Until the public actually has accurate knowledge and information, we can't expect them to do anything about it, especially with the current state of affairs for most people here in America.

Could you imagine the reaction from the White House if it had been instead revealed that the German government had been spying on the President's phone calls? And many of the German public were merely shrugging and saying, "Everybody else does it"?

The frivolous and callus nature of these acts perpetrated by the United States government - if validated - has absolutely disgusted me, if this is how they treat the leader a trusted ally nation. And if I were a citizen of a country who had been wronged in such a manner, I would be contacting my member of parliament to encourage them to re-evaluate their international relationship.

reply to post by crimvelvet

I'm familiar with the story, and I can't find the link in my bookmarks right now either. Personally I thought when the Prism scandal first broke, it would wake people up. Then when it came out we were sharing info with other countries specifically to get around our own laws, I thought it would wake the people up. Then when it came out that we were giving Israel unfiltered mass data, I thought it would wake them up. My hopes are slim now, but I think the crux of this is that we need to make the general public aware of the REAL situation, not just the spin and downplaying they hear on the tv.
Sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there.
This is still a big step past sharing intel with Britain. To be able to tap directly into the communications of whole other countries outside the boundaries of Britain and the US, as I said, was something I figured it would take at least a few more years to get going. They're WAY past what I thought they could do, and from this point forward I'm simply going to assume that whatever it is, they have the tech and resources to do it.

There's spying, and then there's SPYING. The USA alleged it had to do this to keep America safe .
They were monitoring pvt phone calls and texting of world leaders.
That rather goes above and beyond this WE MUST KEEP AMERICA SAFE nonsense.
35 world leaders who are our allies were subjected to this, and they are all NOT amused.
Way to go obama, as all of this escalated under obama.

MrSpad
I know that this stuff in public requires a public response but, within goverments everybody knows everybody is spying on each other. Allies always spy on each other just when they get caught it is normally kept quite and the person sent back home. It happens at both goverment and corporate levels. I just find it funny how goverments have to publicly pretend to be suprised knowing that they are doing the exact same thing. In my time I knew of the UK, France, Canada, Cuba, Russia and China all getting caught at one time or another getting caught in with their nose in the cookie jar of whatever organization I was in at the time. Only one was ever made public. And you can bet it was not one of our allies.

That being said, I wonder why this instance is being highlighted?

I don't know how reliable this source is, but I had heard about it a while ago, and because of this thread I thought I would go looksee...I found this one...

The recent revelations about Edward Snowden and the extent of the NSA’s snooping have got more than a few people spooked. And the concerns extend far beyond the confines of the US population. The Russian Federal Protective Service (FSO), which is the agency in charge of the Kremlin’s and Russian president’s security, has decided it no longer trusts computers and is reverting to using typewriters instead.
No official reason has been given for an order placed this week for $15,000 worth of electric typewriters by the FSO. But amusingly, the reason why has leaked via Russian newspaper Izvestiya.
The FSO has decided to revert back to keeping paper records in light of recent leaks and details of how much monitoring is taking place by certain agencies. In particular, news that Edward Snowden was bugged during the G20 London summit back in 2009 seems to be a key reason for the decision. And in fact, this is just an extension of practices already used at the Kremlin. President Vladimir Putin regularly receives reports that have been produced on a typewriter, and secret notes are passed on paper, not via internal email or messaging services.
By relying on typewriters and paper records, it’s possible to link every single document back to an individual typewriter. Combine that with logs of who was using them and when, along with limiting access to the documents, and it becomes much more difficult to leak something without being found out. Anyone attempting to leak info will probably have to revert to classic spying methods and photograph documents rather than steal them.
I doubt this switch will be a practice followed by other governments simply due to the costs and storage needs involved.

www.geek.com...

I have known for years that tapping into domestic phones over here in the UK has been going on. So I wasn't surprised by all this coming out. I certainly wasn't surprised by all the whoo ha over our press phone taping our celebrities...a distraction in my view. People over here have quickly forgotten about the phone calls between Prince Charles and Camilla, and the tape recordings of Princess Diana known as 'squiggy tapes' if memory serves. We have been conditioned over here for many years that phone tapping goes on from the top to the bottom.

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by QuantumCypher

... My hopes are slim now, but I think the crux of this is that we need to make the general public aware of the REAL situation, not just the spin and downplaying they hear on the tv....

Actually it is not as bad as you might think.

I have spent a lot of time on a very popular board and after years of tossing information at them, I finally had one say " I used to think you were a conspiracy nut but I looked at the stuff [links] you have posted and you are RIGHT!' Now I have had several others recommend listening to me when I post stuff.

I have also found something similar happening with the people I am talking to out and about.

Heck look at the anti-agenda 21 resolutions being passed.

The big problem is NO LEADERS. Only very few people are true leaders and they either get bought off, are the focus of ad hominem attacks (Think Ron Paul and Herman Cain) threatened or if need be killed.

Given a decent leader to stand behind I think you would see a real change.... IF he managed to stay alive.

Been going on for a while.. how do you think Lewinski and Clinton came to light?

I'd be more concerned at which corporations are involved. Law Firms, Oil companies etc. If you know what the competition are planning for, or negotiating with you can trump them at every turn.

In saying that, why are world leaders walking around with mobile phones anyway? your a world leader surely you have something a bit more secure.

reply to post by sulaw

Trust me, I understand your pain. There are times I have to take days, sometimes even weeks away from ATS and the news because my general mood has become so sour and "We are F 'ed." Add to that the first few years of my friends staring at me like I was a lunatic every time I brought this stuff up. But I persevered. Because as soon as you stop trying, then yes, there really is no hope.
But it has paid off. Before, when I would tell my friends something, they would look at me like "There's no way that could happen." Because one or two articles wasn't enough. It took years of continually pointing out the inconsistencies, the lies, and having a few of my "predictions" come true, but now they listen. And they share. And they're getting angry. I haven't figured out what the next step is yet, but you have to keep sharing because until people know what is going on instead of swallowing a 30 second sound bite and moving on with their day, we won't be able to get them to stand up and do anything.

reply to post by QuantumCypher


I should also say I think there is stuff going on behind the scenes none of us plebs are aware of.

For one thing Putin is a nationalist. He is NOT going to be interested in giving up his countries sovereignty and neither is China. The formation of an international bank to challenge the IMF/World Bank and the accumulation of gold says they are fully aware of the Banksters.

The other tip of the iceberg was the Norway gunman who shot up that island camp LINK

The news stories as usual are full of BS. First of all it was not a kiddie camp it was a camp for young political wannabes from all over. (Read our next crop of overlords) Second he didn't try to get away because he had a "message'.... HMMMmmm.


July 2011 ATS thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by bastion

I agree. I remember a few years ago there was something in the news about the CIA wanting the rules changed so that their employees could moonlight for the corporations. They said that if the rules weren't changed they would lose too many employees because the corps paid better. When I read that I wondered how anyone could keep thinking of McDonalds and Coca Cola as these family friendly trustworthy businesses.

reply to post by beezzer

Be careful Beez...be very suspect of any bacon you see seemingly lying around with no one guarding it...they know your weakness...

reply to post by QuantumCypher

Guess what, if they're spying on world leaders, then they are spying on all of us.....but we shouldn't care! it's for our safety! bull #!

QuantumCypher
reply to post by beezzer

 

Be careful Beez...be very suspect of any bacon you see seemingly lying around with no one guarding it...they know your weakness...

Round bacon used to scare me. I got over it, eh!

On topic, this is an embarrassment to the administration. It shows weakness. It shows vulnerability.

It's not good for Americans!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I think her outrage is a little more than an act. I think it's more of a "Hey, what do you mean you're spying on ME?!" After some of the earlier releases by Snowden, Germany investigated it's local NSA center, which had just pulled up shop right after the leaks. Nothing to do with the leaks, they said, but the timing suggests otherwise.
Hmm, as I was trying to find the article dealing with that topic, (which I couldn't find yet) I stumbled across this little gem from August:
www.spiegel.de...

According to internal NSA information, which SPIEGEL has seen, the agency's European Cryptologic Center (ECC) is headquartered in Griesheim. A 2011 NSA report indicates that the ECC is responsible for the "largest analysis and productivity in Europe." According to the report, results from the secret installation find their way into the President's Daily Brief, the daily intelligence report given to US President Barack Obama, an average of twice a week.
Germany is a special place for the NSA, in many respects. Few other countries are the source of as much data for US intelligence agencies, much of which comes from the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency. At the same time Germany itself, despite all friendly assurances to the contrary, is also a target of the surveillance. According to a "secret" summary among the documents obtained by Snowden, which SPIEGEL was able to view, Germany is one of the targets of US espionage activity.
In the April 2013 summary, the NSA defines its "intelligence priorities" on a scale ranging from "1" (highest interest) to "5" (lowest interest). Not surprisingly, the top targets include China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. According to the list of spying priorities, the European Union is also one of the targets of American surveillance, specifically in six individual areas. The areas assigned a priority level of "3" are EU foreign policy goals, "international trade" and "economic stability." Lower-priority areas are new technologies, energy security and food security issues.

I still stand by my "I can't believe you're spying on ME!" statement.

reply to post by PtolemyII

The memo the article is based off of is from Bush era years, so we have to be careful pointing the finger or else all the Obama supporters will start jumping on THAT bandwagon.
That being said, Obama signed to re-authorize this activity. And it has become public on his watch. He has a chance to try to reign this in, but given his unwavering support of the NDAA of 2012, drone strikes, and blowing off the spying on the American public, I doubt he will.

QuantumCypher
reply to post by MrSpad

 

First of all, how would we react if say we found out that the UK had tapped Obama's, Hillary Clinton, and Harry Reid's phone's? That's not even taking into account spying on millions of normal American citizens phones? It's one thing for us to spy on Iraq or Syria, but our own nation's allies is a completely different matter. Especially if we expect them to stay allies, as the fallout from this mess is proving.
Secondly, yes, there have always been spies, always will be spies, but this is on an unprecedented level. It's one thing to keep tabs on military, tech projects, and maybe even a few diplomats, it's a different matter entirely to bug the phones of another nations leaders, and again specifically our allies. How is Britain going to react if they find out we bugged the royal families phones? By a program whose only justification is "keeping America safe from terrorists"?

How we would react is how everyone reacts when they catch an ally spying on them. If it is out of the public eye the leak would be sealed by whatever means were required and if they caught someone they would quiety be sent home and banned from reentry. Now if it was in the public eye we of course would play the shocked role and demand answers and then once it was out of public eye quietly forget about it. Which exactly what the "shocked" governments will do in this case.