Help me believe in god

I stopped reading the OP at 'avoid geting tortured". No offense, but God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:28). Hell is not eternal, you have misunderstood. The lake of fire will blot out the souls of the wicked and they will cease existing. God will not blot out those who never had a chance to understand His word, they are given 1000 years in spirit bodies to grasp the truth before Satan is released to test them and see if they love God or want to rebel. (Revelation 20).

Many come in Christ's name and deceive. Christ warned of this (matthew 24:3-4). Christ came to set people free, not put them in chains. Prince of peace. Give God a chance. Talk to Him and ask His help and tell Him you are willing to obey Him if He will show you He is real. He will and you will be blessed.

First you have to separate god and Jesus and organized religion

These are three separate things.

As a Christian Deist i believe in god or a higher power

Jesus was a philosopher nothing more or less (not divine)

All Organized Religions are a crock of s**t for controlling people.

What a pity some require a religion for faith.
Find what YOU believe before you approach any church. What you feel.
Jesus will gladly accept all who ask but you should WANT to as well.

Do you have a small still voice in the back of your head that tells you right for wrong that you choose to listen to or not listen to. Well, this is your conscience, and this is the voice of God.

reply to post by James1982


I am truly amazed and astounded (thrillingly so) at the varied, thoughtful responses to this tread from both believers and non believers alike!

I think you should try to release all the propaganda you have been fed in your youth. Some of it I'm sure was well meaning some not so much.

You sound like you have a very level head on your shoulders and it may be time to start thinking and (more importantly feeling) for yourself.

They (I know who's they?) say that 50% of solving a problem is acknowledging it and wanting a solution so you are already half way there. "Ask and it shall be given."

I am intelligent enough to know that I am not intelligent enough (or loving enough) to have created me. My unbelievable body that when injured, miraculously repairs itself; my marvelous spirit which I'm still trying to figure out; my amazing heart and brain, the depths of which we are only beginning to fathom. Not to mention this wild awesome home we have in Earth.

The great power that created me is not a religion. I am connected on an ethereal level to a HUGE source. I can call on it and get help. When in need sometimes I say "Strengthen my silver cord Lord." And it (in some way) is done.

I think Jesus was a man who did actually live in the flesh and was born out of his time to assist us, but has become a secondary source for accessing God or The Great Spirit because his everlasting spirit is millenia ahead of ours in it's closeness to God Almighty. I believe The Holy Spirit is an entity in it's own right that works with them both and vice versa and moves in our lives.

I also believe in a malevolent force in the so-called devil. I think it is a fight to the death through eternity between My God and that evil force. "God loves balanced scales." I also believe the plan of our universe and lives is divine and that ultimately Good wins out and is stronger than evil in the end.

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that in the near future you will have an amazing experience that will start you on a path to understanding and loving your creator.

Just as a side note: when I am in pain I simply ask Source to balance the electromagnetic energy surrounding and going through my body with that of the Earth at 8.3 MHz and to remove all blockages in said energy and to remove all negative energy from me out into the cosmos to be recycled. I specifically mention the body part where I am experiencing the pain. Once I do this the pain in that area of my body stops.

Cheers,

Blue Wolf

pray

AfterInfinity
reply to post by 3OGRE3

 

As an engineering student I want to say I am deeply and horribly appalled that you took what I said as an attack on science.

So you're an engineering student. That only makes what you posted worse.

Science and religion need to co-exist. Yet there are those who want to divide and divide and divide until there's nothing left! Science and religion worked wonderfully and peacefully for a long time... and now all of a sudden, if we believe in God, we reject that ashphalt exists, or that computers exist, or that internet exists?

The answer to that is simple: you either need to redefine how we understand science, or redefine how we understand god. You should know this, you're the engineering student. Geesh.

Now, please, explain yourself to me. If you are just trying to pick a fight with me, that's okay. If you are being serious and honestly believe(d) that I am or was attacking science in any way with my comment, then either I need to apologize for being unclear about my intentions, or YOU need to apologize for antagonizing me and twisting my words to fit your own ill-intentioned plans.

You sounded distinctly disdainful toward a predominantly scientific approach to investigating this reality, as opposed to assuming the answers and ignoring the questions.

Science doesn't exist 'despite' religion, it exists BECAUSE of it.

And you're full of the stuff that goes in toilets. Religion persecuted any scientist who didn't agree with the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible. Galilei? Remember him? House arrest. Executed when he refused to stop his devilish work. Because he found out the Earth is not the center of the universe, and in fact revolves around the sun, not the other way around.

They didn't like that at all. We like to be at the middle of everything. Everything is about us, right? Do some fact checking once in a while, you might actually make sense. If you're an engineering student, you're going to have some rough times with a mentality like that. You don't PRAY a building into being. In fact, if any prayer at all goes into it, you didn't do enough math.

Does God like math? I hope he does. He's responsible for something like 20 million deaths because he's too lazy or obstinate to help people. That's 4 Hitlers. And that's just in recorded history. That's not talking about shooting victims, starvation, disease, abuse, suicide, etc. He kills people, we save them. We kill people, he lets us. Figure that one out. You're the engineer.

edit on 24-10-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I see where the problem is. In your mind there is a 'war' or 'battle' with science against religion. As for your example of Galileo, he was nor persecuted by 'religion' he was persecuted by the CHURCH. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the church and the religion. Church is the institution. Religion is the faith. Also, have it be noted that Galileo was not persecuted solely by the church but also by other SCIENTISTS of that era, because his works did not agree with the current SCIENTIFIC paradigm (which was heavily influenced by the church).

Also, yes, God does like math... At least I believe he does. He is after all the Geometer of Creation, is he not? I realize I am anthropomorphizing God, it/he/she may not be a he/she/it, but for the sake of discussion, it is simply easier for me to communicate this way. Also, let it be known that I am NOT a christian...though I am religious. I simply happen to agree with most Christian philosophy and methods.

I have more to say, obviously, but I feel it would fall on deaf ears with you. So, to end this, now...
Cheers, and my apologies for your mis-interpretation of my ideas.
/_\.G.R.E

That should do it. Amen.

reply to post by 3OGRE3

I see where the problem is. In your mind there is a 'war' or 'battle' with science against religion.

Only in the sense that as both currently stand, they are incompatible.

As for your example of Galileo, he was nor persecuted by 'religion' he was persecuted by the CHURCH. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the church and the religion. Church is the institution. Religion is the faith.

That's like saying our schools are responsible for what is taught in their halls. That is pure, unadulterated CRAP. And the same mentality responsible for his persecution is still encouraged in this day and age. Here, lemme show you:



And that school IS responsible for what this kid was taught.

Also, have it be noted that Galileo was not persecuted solely by the church but also by other SCIENTISTS of that era, because his works did not agree with the current SCIENTIFIC paradigm (which was heavily influenced by the church).

You are only proving my point.

Also, yes, God does like math... At least I believe he does. He is after all the Geometer of Creation, is he not? I realize I am anthropomorphizing God, it/he/she may not be a he/she/it, but for the sake of discussion, it is simply easier for me to communicate this way. Also, let it be known that I am NOT a christian...though I am religious. I simply happen to agree with most Christian philosophy and methods.

Good for you. I hope you are better at defending the Christian philosophy than those who actually practice it.

I have more to say, obviously, but I feel it would fall on deaf ears with you. So, to end this, now...
Cheers, and my apologies for your mis-interpretation of my ideas.

Basically, I'm not worth the effort. That's very Christian of you. I wonder how Jesus would respond to that.

reply to post by ketsuko

And I say that's not necessarily true. People who don't want to believe won't, even if a thing is as plain as the nose on their face. A god could land on your nose tomorrow, and if you are convinced there are no gods, you wouldn't believe.

I have no reason to believe, and therefore, I do not. But just as with any functional algorithm, if you change the input, the output will reflect the adjustment.

If that god landed on your nose and you believed it was a god, then you were never convinced there were no gods, you were always open to that belief. In essence, your faith in no gods was weaker than the reality of a god.

I am open to being proven wrong. This does not mean I am gullible. The two are not mutually inclusive, as you seem to be implying.

Help me believe in god

Sure:



Welcome.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Posts like that lead me to suspect the sincerity of their authors.

3OGRE3

AfterInfinity
reply to post by 3OGRE3

 

As an engineering student I want to say I am deeply and horribly appalled that you took what I said as an attack on science.

So you're an engineering student. That only makes what you posted worse.

Science and religion need to co-exist. Yet there are those who want to divide and divide and divide until there's nothing left! Science and religion worked wonderfully and peacefully for a long time... and now all of a sudden, if we believe in God, we reject that ashphalt exists, or that computers exist, or that internet exists?

The answer to that is simple: you either need to redefine how we understand science, or redefine how we understand god. You should know this, you're the engineering student. Geesh.

Now, please, explain yourself to me. If you are just trying to pick a fight with me, that's okay. If you are being serious and honestly believe(d) that I am or was attacking science in any way with my comment, then either I need to apologize for being unclear about my intentions, or YOU need to apologize for antagonizing me and twisting my words to fit your own ill-intentioned plans.

You sounded distinctly disdainful toward a predominantly scientific approach to investigating this reality, as opposed to assuming the answers and ignoring the questions.

Science doesn't exist 'despite' religion, it exists BECAUSE of it.

And you're full of the stuff that goes in toilets. Religion persecuted any scientist who didn't agree with the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible. Galilei? Remember him? House arrest. Executed when he refused to stop his devilish work. Because he found out the Earth is not the center of the universe, and in fact revolves around the sun, not the other way around.

They didn't like that at all. We like to be at the middle of everything. Everything is about us, right? Do some fact checking once in a while, you might actually make sense. If you're an engineering student, you're going to have some rough times with a mentality like that. You don't PRAY a building into being. In fact, if any prayer at all goes into it, you didn't do enough math.

Does God like math? I hope he does. He's responsible for something like 20 million deaths because he's too lazy or obstinate to help people. That's 4 Hitlers. And that's just in recorded history. That's not talking about shooting victims, starvation, disease, abuse, suicide, etc. He kills people, we save them. We kill people, he lets us. Figure that one out. You're the engineer.

edit on 24-10-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I see where the problem is. In your mind there is a 'war' or 'battle' with science against religion. As for your example of Galileo, he was nor persecuted by 'religion' he was persecuted by the CHURCH. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the church and the religion. Church is the institution. Religion is the faith. Also, have it be noted that Galileo was not persecuted solely by the church but also by other SCIENTISTS of that era, because his works did not agree with the current SCIENTIFIC paradigm (which was heavily influenced by the church).

Also, yes, God does like math... At least I believe he does. He is after all the Geometer of Creation, is he not? I realize I am anthropomorphizing God, it/he/she may not be a he/she/it, but for the sake of discussion, it is simply easier for me to communicate this way. Also, let it be known that I am NOT a christian...though I am religious. I simply happen to agree with most Christian philosophy and methods.

I have more to say, obviously, but I feel it would fall on deaf ears with you. So, to end this, now...
Cheers, and my apologies for your mis-interpretation of my ideas.
/_\.G.R.E

Religion is the Church, religion is the organisation and solidification of a belief system. God is the faith.
The universe is the creation of God, religion is the creation of man.
Im not religious, but I believe in God, I think God believes in me. I cannot prove it, you will have to take it on faith, as I do.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Post like yours lead me to believe there is a desire for confrontation.

I also believe I can care less whether you believe I was or wasn't sincere.

reply to post by Rosinitiate

Post like yours lead me to believe there is a desire for confrontation.

I also believe I can care less whether you believe I was or wasn't sincere.

Hey, guess what? I care about quality contribution. That was me gently reminding you that your minimalist post isn't at all helpful given the context. You posted a picture of...a mirror? It looks like a mirror. So something about mirrors and gods. Wonderful. Your point is abstract and obscure. Maybe you could do a better job in the future of actually explaining yourself. Because that would be great.

That's all I'm asking. Is that such a bad thing? ....I don't even know what I'm still doing on this thread. I'll just finish this post and vamoose.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


There is more information available in that one post then your continuous rants I can assure you.

I recognize it is lost on you and that is ok. There are others that might receive the message as it was intended. Again, the post isn't for everyone and in fact was for the OP.

Sometime people will do well to read between the lines. There is free will and all that and I see you are exercising that right whether good or bad. kudos to you sir!

Ok. Listen to old Eric Clapton when he played guitar with Cream.

ezinearticles.com...?&id=6104644

AfterInfinity

I am open to being proven wrong. This does not mean I am gullible. The two are not mutually inclusive, as you seem to be implying.

You were the one who defined god as a being greater than yourself. Had I wanted to imply that you were gullible I would have used aliens since to me aliens are definitely beings greater than ourselves while definitely not gods. However, by the definition you gave, a god would be any being greater than yourself, qualifying aliens IMO.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by 3OGRE3

 

I see where the problem is. In your mind there is a 'war' or 'battle' with science against religion.

Only in the sense that as both currently stand, they are incompatible.

As for your example of Galileo, he was nor persecuted by 'religion' he was persecuted by the CHURCH. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain the difference between the church and the religion. Church is the institution. Religion is the faith.

That's like saying our schools are responsible for what is taught in their halls. That is pure, unadulterated CRAP. And the same mentality responsible for his persecution is still encouraged in this day and age. Here, lemme show you:

And that school IS responsible for what this kid was taught.

Also, have it be noted that Galileo was not persecuted solely by the church but also by other SCIENTISTS of that era, because his works did not agree with the current SCIENTIFIC paradigm (which was heavily influenced by the church).

You are only proving my point.

Also, yes, God does like math... At least I believe he does. He is after all the Geometer of Creation, is he not? I realize I am anthropomorphizing God, it/he/she may not be a he/she/it, but for the sake of discussion, it is simply easier for me to communicate this way. Also, let it be known that I am NOT a christian...though I am religious. I simply happen to agree with most Christian philosophy and methods.

Good for you. I hope you are better at defending the Christian philosophy than those who actually practice it.

I have more to say, obviously, but I feel it would fall on deaf ears with you. So, to end this, now...
Cheers, and my apologies for your mis-interpretation of my ideas.

Basically, I'm not worth the effort. That's very Christian of you. I wonder how Jesus would respond to that.

I don't believe that science and religion are incompatible. I believe there are a lot of people who make up their minds that the two can not be compatible. You are one of them. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does, as you can clearly see, create some tension between the religious and the non-religious.
The current scientific paradigm is heavily influenced by CORPORATIONS. Now, replace CORPORATIONS with CHURCH, and... hey presto! You have a biased scientific system! No different now than it was then. I applaud all scientists everywhere, even the corrupt ones, because they are moving our world forward. Of course, every single day we are coming to more and more knowledge and information... see, I believe that we are being forced to accept a new paradigm at exponentially decreasing times. Fifty years ago, it would have taken 30 years to accept a new paradigm, 20 years ago, 10 years, 10 years ago, 5, 5 years ago, 2, 2 years ago 1. Obviously I just made these numbers up, they don't MEAN anything but I put them there to communicate my point. We are being forced to accept a new paradigm, and we are expected to accept them faster and faster... and those who get left behind? Tough. That's why my very first post was actually just a guide to accepting a new paradigm. I've become quite good at it, to be honest, but it still takes me a while, usually half a year to a year to fully accept a new paradigm.
And that's all the OP really wanted. How to change a belief. I feel we've gone off - course during this discussion, moving away from the actual method to changing from non-belief to belief, towards a metaphysical discussion of whether or not God exists, and now we're arguing about.... science versus religion. It's an interesting topic to talk about, no doubt about that, but we are ignoring the needs of OP here. If you have nothing to contribute other than "God doesn't exist, Science is the only truth you will need", it is not helping him to believe, and it is not helping him not to believe in believing.
You are intelligent, and it's always great to discuss something with an opposing view-point, if not only because it makes my own ideas seem so.... vincible. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that God is the only truth and that only religion will make you see the truth. That would be naive of me and I would only have to assume that you were a gullible idiot for believing me.
I did let my emotional side get to me a bit in this argument and I have to apologize for that... but what can I do? Turn back time and be more rational? Only if...only if....

anyway, Cheers,
/_\.G.R.E

OH! what was the question?

Help me believe in God.

Not convince me there isn't one.

Anyway, I can't, that is a personal journey.