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I'm just very interested in how to actually be convinced of god, it seems everything depends on how you view certain events, giving meaning to some, while ignoring others to perpetuate the idea that someone above is intervening in your life. Or flat out trickery by others.
reply to post by rockoperawriter
look friend, if you are using sarcasm.. keep it,please.
you are free to believe (to have faith) in what ever you want..
I shared already my knowledge with the OP... If you don't agree you a free to it and if you have doubt's, you can ask.
Now about this thread and where is going to I only quote,the words of Jesus, about division and discussion of beliefs:
« I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.»
edit: Luke 12:49-53
edit on v2013134America/ChicagoThu, 24 Oct 2013 16:10:33 -05002 by voyger2 because: (no reason given)
As an engineering student I want to say I am deeply and horribly appalled that you took what I said as an attack on science.
Science and religion need to co-exist. Yet there are those who want to divide and divide and divide until there's nothing left! Science and religion worked wonderfully and peacefully for a long time... and now all of a sudden, if we believe in God, we reject that ashphalt exists, or that computers exist, or that internet exists?
Now, please, explain yourself to me. If you are just trying to pick a fight with me, that's okay. If you are being serious and honestly believe(d) that I am or was attacking science in any way with my comment, then either I need to apologize for being unclear about my intentions, or YOU need to apologize for antagonizing me and twisting my words to fit your own ill-intentioned plans.
Science doesn't exist 'despite' religion, it exists BECAUSE of it.
This is because the truth is written in our hearts. We know right or wrong in our hearts before any teacher indoctrinates us on their interpretation of right or wrong. This is all because of the holy spirit. It works within us all. Anytime you've done something good it is inspired by God's spirit , because he is the author or all that is good.
God will never give up us though. If you humbly take the way of the cross, like Jesus did and truly seek to know the truth and experience God, to do the right thing even when it's not popular, or convenient but rather just because it's the right thing to do you will be blessed and led towards further understanding. Jesus truly was the Son of God, but its not enough to hear about him, you have to experience his holy spirit and experience a shift where your eyes begin opening and you see the truth in a way you couldn't before.
God is a mystery, but a mystery that can be experienced when you choose to take a stand and say , " I want to know you". The way is the straight and narrow man, try to do your best to avoid TV, too much internet, get in touch with nature, be charitable, eat as natural as possible, pray and truly focus on the beauty of all Gods creation. Don't allow the Powers that be to keep you in a prison.
I realize some may feel this is better suited for the religion forum, but this is more of a philosophical discussion on how to change a belief, then it is a discussion about religion itself, please keep that in mind, this isn't the place for religious arguments.
As a child I was brought up in a non-religious household, but oddly enough was sent to sunday school or whatever the local church's equivalent of that would be, once a week for quite some time. One of the (public) school's organizations my mother was a part of was operated out of the church, so that might have played a part.
Anyway, among the typical things one would hear at such a place, is that to be saved, you must believe in God and Jesus. Being brought up in a non-religious household, god and religion weren't taught as bad, they just weren't really a part of anything. But the ideas weren't totally foreign to me, as some extended family was religious, in addition to it being impossible to avoid knowledge of such things in today's world.
As a young child my views on what exactly religion did and was weren't accurate at all, I saw some sort of bizarre web of "gods" that you had to avoid pissing off in order to avoid eternal torture. It seemed more about things you were supposed to avoid doing, not what you were supposed to believe. I wondered why people would get involved with groups that made them do things to avoid getting tortured.
So once I realized you were supposed to actually believe in god and Jesus in order to be saved, as opposed to just doing what they told us, I was confused. I figured, why would you need to believe in someone like god or jesus? They are such powerful and well known figures, so as a young child my mind told me these "people" must be real, but why people would follow them still confused me.
Upon figuring out that the reason we are supposed to believe in them, is because they don't "exist" in the way that "normal people" exist, I became even more confused. Typical "how I became an atheist" story follows, although I don't consider myself an atheist.
Sorry for the long lead in, but the issue I always had was that you are supposed to believe a certain way, and that somehow you can be "converted" or convinced to believe in god.
My lack of religious beliefs doesn't stem from hatred of religion, a desire to rebel, or to avoid judgement for my actions. It comes from my total inability to believe, with any significant conviction, that god exists in any form even remotely approaching what is taught by most all major religions.
So to get to the basis of this thread, how do you change a belief? The way I see it, belief is based on input just like anything else. You believe something is true based on reasons, and will continue to believe it's true until you are given additional input, or previous input is found to be faulty. Which is just another way of saying I'll believe in god when he pops up on my couch one evening.
So how can I believe in god? What actions and thoughts could I take that would lead me down a path that would result in my actual beliefs being changed? It seems many people have experiences that are turning points, where something happens and they instantly "find god"
Other than that, what can be done to change a belief? If I really, really wanted to become a christian, or a muslim, I couldn't do so honestly unless I actually believed in god.
The obvious answer to me, is that nobody can ever really be "converted" you can change your "official" title but your beliefs don't change. You can trick yourself into reconciling certain things, in a similar way an abused wife convinces herself that her husband still loves her, but deep down she still knows he doesn't. This isn't a judgement towards anyone here who has changed religion. If your inputs changed and caused a change in belief that makes perfect sense.
I'm speaking more about the practice of forced conversions, conversions in order to marry, and the idea in general that any religion can "save" people by convincing them to believe in god.
Maybe I should go chat with someone at a church and say I really want to join, but honestly I don't believe in god, but would like my mind changed on that subject. What could be done? Quoting scripture does nothing, as the non-believer gives no legitimacy to the scripture in the first place. How can my belief be honestly changed? Is it a long journey of exposing myself to certain circumstances and experiences, or is there a nugget of wisdom that one comes across and instantly it all clicks?
What are your thoughts?
Do you actually want to believe in god or is there some deeper desire in your heart?
Are you requesting help from the group to process past baggage? If yes, that's fine. That seems to be a major function of ATS.
generally you need to hit rock bottom in life. to be desperate enough to search and accept anything that may give you hope or peace of mind.
its not actually based on belief. but its how mannnnny people come to like religion itself.
the truth will reveal itself to you via holy spirit. a change in your life will be operated... it will be up to you to try to understand and accept the truth.. or ignore and follow your old life.
reply to post by James1982
Start with what we do have in regards to God. We have the word "God".
What is "God"? God, as far as we can tell, is a word, which names or labels our conceptions of what the concept of God means to each individual.
To some, "God" means the law of laws.
To some, "God" is the old man in the sky.
To some, "God" is what put the universe in motion.
To some, "God" is chaos.
To some, "God" is everything.
To some, "God" has no use any longer.
Look to language, the father of all metaphysical inquiry. In most cases, especially in the case of God, words are all we have to work with.
In my conception God is "The word", the alpha and the omega (First and last letter of the greek alphabet), the logos. No other animal has concepts of God, because no other animal has language. God is language.
Meditation, a healthy pineal gland and thats all you need to figure it out