Former Drone Operator Shares his Inner Torment

rangerdanger
I mean, if you still think terrorism is a real threat, then I don't see this friendly debate continuing.

Terrorism is a real threat that many still face daily. However, it's not terrorism as one would think. Right now, heck, since the Gulf War in '90, we've had nothing to do in Iraq. We have nothing to do in the Middle East period.

I'm a firm believer that we should allow various countries to fix their own issues. Yes, Saddam was a psychopath. His sons were no better. And yes, innocent lives were taken under his regime. But answer me this, since 2003 with the help of the U.S., how many lives have been lost so far? I'll bet you more lives than Saddam took.

We were lied to as a people, we were told Saddam had WMD's. Yet, only a short time later Bush and his cronies were on TV saying there weren't any after all.


www.youtube.com...

With all that said and done, I'd like to discuss terrorism for a minute. If you believe terrorism isn't a threat, you've been misled. However, it's not terrorism as Bush and the current regime would like you to think. It's not coming from outside, it's coming from the inside.

This is more so for Europe than the United States. Europe with it's massive influx of immigrants from the M.E. are facing a tide of trouble. I'll be using Norway as an example as it's a country I'm well versed in as I've lived there for many years.

Just recently, two sisters from Somalia who were "raised Norwegian" (well integrated) aged sixteen and nineteen left Norway to partake in "Jihad". Remember the mall attack in Kenya? This was done by a "Norwegian" man from Somalia who came to Norway when he was eight. He was “well integrated”, did well in Norwegian schools and had a decent job.

Yet, these people were radicalized in Europe. There’s a growing presence of radical Islamists in Europe as a whole. Now, the above people chose to return to Somalia to fight their Jihad. When do you want to bet they’ll (radical Muslims) will start to fight their Jihad in the West against the West? With so many Islamic youths susceptible to radicalization, it’s only a matter of time.

So yes, terrorism is a real danger. Just not from Iraq or the M.E. as a whole.

Spookybelle

rangerdanger
reply to post by gardener

 

Exactly. We create drones to save our own asses. All the while killing and destroying as much as we want. Drones only enable that behavior.
As an American, I feel shame.

So are you contending that if we did not have drones we would not be hunting terrorists in Pakistan or Yemen or wherever?

How are you going to feel when other countries get drones and kill parts of your kids? or other loved ones? All in the name of their safety.

I would like to see us end this wasteful war.
At least Antietam was for a legitimate purpose. Not some corporate sponsored 10 year war.
We only recently started using drones, so I don't understand why you keep comparing our "pre-drone" tactics to antiquated tactics we haven't used in decades.

Spookybelle
Because we are discussing the use of technology in war, not the necessity of war itself.

No; you're not talking about war. You're talking about state-sponsored terrorism. Read the stories of the indigenous people and their experiences. Read about first-responders being attacked by drones. Read about funeral gathering being attacked. Read about two boys and a mule murdered. The documentation *is* out there. Fact: Standard-operating-procedure for these groups is committing war crimes.

The real tragedy in this story is that this mass murderer and his video-game buddies have not met up with their local gang-bangers and become a statistic.

Merlynn

Spookybelle

rangerdanger
reply to post by gardener

 

Exactly. We create drones to save our own asses. All the while killing and destroying as much as we want. Drones only enable that behavior.
As an American, I feel shame.

So are you contending that if we did not have drones we would not be hunting terrorists in Pakistan or Yemen or wherever?

How are you going to feel when other countries get drones and kill parts of your kids? or other loved ones? All in the name of their safety.

Well, that will happen and is part of the point I was trying to make. Warfare changes, always has and always will. Anything that can give one side fewer casualties and still help them achieve their goals will be incorporated into their arsenal.

The US has no interest in mounting casualties and the drone technology allows them to accomplish what they want while reducing the risk of harm to innocent people. It does not allow them an opportunity to do something they wouldn't be engaging in anyways.

Only the method is different.

I've no idea why people are against it.

reply to post by juspassinthru


You apparently think I am denying that drones cause innocent deaths and I am most certainly not saying that.

I am saying there are less deaths being caused because we are using drones than other methods we have available to employ.

You are thinking that if we didn't have drones we wouldn't be over there but I disagree with that. We would still be over there and having to use even more violent methods to accomplish what we currently are now doing.

At far greater risk to civilians and our own forces.

I wonder if people argued about the invent of guns or arrows the same way people do about drones. I wonder if every time one side gained a technological advantage in war/combat if people cried how it was unfair.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by rangerdanger

 

What in the world makes them think that is a good or helpful thing to show anyone? Do they expect a guy to be happy and cheerful that he's personally and directly ended the lives of over 1,600 other human beings?? I don't get the thinking here.

Stats like that must surely be tallied by people who not only have never seen fighting themselves, but know NO ONE who HAS seen and been a part of fighting where others died.

I'll say from both my Dad out of Vietnam and by brother-in-law out of the M.E. wars...neither had one shred of pride or happiness. They both have/are dealing with issues from that, with NO questions about the rightness of what they had to do. With total clarity of the morality, they both deal with issues.

That clarity is something these drone pilots can never have from a trailer in Nevada or Arizona. Then they show them this? I can't believe it...I just can't fathom what the bean counters are thinking to count bodies like beans.

Our nation has totally and completely lost it's way in the world.

edit on 24-10-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Good post, my Dad served in WW2 as an anti aircraft gunner(pom pom) on a river class destroyer doing the convoys from here to Europe and back again.

He was very proud of what he did and he always stressed, it was me and my gun versus the enemy air craft trying to take out my gun.

He survived the war in one piece, but in his later years he always wondered about the men he brought down to the cold Atlantic and what became of their families.

He always said that you never knew who actually shot the plane out of the sky because every gun on board was going full blast.

I believe if he actually knew that he himself killed a pilot it would have been much harder on him later in life.
In my dad's case not knowing for sure was a blessing. Makes me think of why firing squads always have one gun with a blank.

Regards, Iwinder

Some Kudos to this guy for coming out, but he knew exactly what he was doing. He wouldve taken numerous simulation runs before actually manning a real drone, and the incident invloving a child happed in what 2007, yet he still carries on for a few more years, sorry but he has earned the depression and ptsd that he has now...