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Joe Manchin Joins Efforts To Delay Individual Mandate

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posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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Joe Manchin Joins Efforts To Delay Individual Mandate

Joe Manchin, a Democrat, is calling for a delay in Obamacare now due to the glitchy healthcare.gov website. But first I want to address this from the article:


Administration officials, in damage-control mode for nearly a week, held a closed-door briefing for Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives and a private session with insurance company executives, who said they would assist in efforts to fix the Healthcare.gov website.


Great... Insurance company executives and House Democrats are going to help fix the website by providing assistance through closed door meetings. Does anyone else see anything wrong with that? Why can't the public be informed of what they are changing and why do the insurance executives, who frankly wrote this awful bill, get to help fix this mess? Wouldn't it make sense to talk to IT companies about fixing this website? You know the people who are going to write the code to fix the glitches... Also why just Democrats? Obama can't even talk to Republicans now? This just looks like another ruse to screw the American people over again.

Anyways onto the reason I am posting this article.


With the rocky launch of the "Obamacare" insurance exchanges entering its fourth week, additional Democrats came forward, some urging the president to extend the open-enrollment period for buying health insurance through the program beyond the existing March 31 deadline.

One Democrat, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, said he would join a Republican effort to delay the so-called "individual mandate," that requires people to buy insurance or face a tax penalty.

Manchin, in a Fox News interview on the "The O'Reilly Factor," called for a transition year with no fines. "Let's work through the problems. We've got a lot of problems, they have been identified. I think everybody has recognized them. Let's fix it. Let's get together and fix things," he said.


So trailing the heels of the government shutdown, we have the glitches at healthcare.gov that are preventing people from doing pretty much anything on the website. Now even Democrats are starting to jump onto the delay the individual mandate bandwagon. This is going to open up a whole new can of worms for the Obama administration and here is why:


The comments from the handful of Democrats posed a new potential hazard for the White House and gave Republicans a chance to portray their efforts to derail the healthcare program as bipartisan.


Basically, to sum this up, if Obama agrees to delay the mandate now due to Democrat pressure, the whole stupid government shutdown could have just been avoided. Yes, I understand that it started off as defund Obamacare, but the Republicans eventually dropped that angle and went with just delaying the individual mandate which Obama steadfastly refused to do. What is Mr. Obama going to do now that Democrats are telling him the same thing?

So how about holding the software company responsible, well according to this you can even lay this screwup at the feet of the Obama administration.


Republicans said they would intensify their investigations into the launch of the 2010 Affordable Care Act, known as "Obamacare."

"It is our job to hold them accountable, and when it comes to Obamacare clearly there is a lot to hold accountable," House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner told reporters.

The Republican-led House Energy and Commerce Committee on Thursday will hear from the top contractors responsible for the program. They included website developer CGI Federal, a unit of Canada's CGI Group Inc, which said in prepared testimony that the software from another contractor designed to allow users to create an account led to early bottlenecks.

But the other contractor, United Health Group unit Quality Software Services Inc (QSSI), said in prepared testimony that some of its problems stemmed from a late decision by the administration to require consumers to register for an account before browsing for insurance products.


Emphasis added. Why the administration made people have to sign up for on the website in order to just window shop is beyond me, but speaking as an IT person I can understand where QSSI is coming from. You implement a LARGE change like this at the last minute and expect the software engineers to jump over backwards trying to implement it, not to mention how grossly inefficient the change is (clearly the administration knows nothing about software engineering), it isn't surprising we have all these problems.
edit on 24-10-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Oh this is classic. Create a problem and then act like the hero now by fixing it. "if I only had a brain".



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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There should be lawsuits filed to make the Executive branch follow the ACA law to a 'T'. The law should be implemented as written, no delays, no special dispensations.... just as it is.

Once the American people start getting fined by the IRS for not signing up on a website that is impossible to use to sign up.... then we will really see how much people like the new law.....

Remember all you Obamaphiles.... IT IS THE LAW.... passed by the Legislative branch, signed by the Executive branch, and approved by the Judicial branch. I keep hearing that from you ACA lovers.... HOW ABOUT ABIDING BY THAT LAW NOW!!!



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


This is politics and this is how it should be done.

Obama and the Democrats were still right in holding their ground on the government shutdown and the debt ceiling. The whole point was that they weren't going to allow the Republicans to use the US economy as leverage to negotiate. Obama always said he is willing to talk and negotiate about ANYTHING after the government is funded and the debt ceiling is raised to allow the US to pay it's bills. If Obama and the Democrats would have caved to the Republicans, then every time funding or the debt ceiling came up the Republicans would attempt to use it as leverage to get something they want.

This is the correct way to do things...debate and compromise without the threat of a US default hanging over everyones head. I don't care if Obama and the Dems end up giving in on a delay...with the continued problems with the website, it seems like a logical thing to do. I like the one suggestion to set a floating deadline on the individual mandate to 6 months after the website is up and stable for everyone.

But, they couldn't have done this while the Republicans were holding the US economy hostage. Republicans had to learn that is not how you govern.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


But we could have avoided the ENTIRE government shutdown if instead of Obama being a stubborn mule about Obamacare, he'd provide a counter option of delay the individual mandate to the "defund Obamacare" line the Republicans were spewing pre-shutdown. THAT is called negotiation. What Obama does isn't anything close to negotiation. What Obama does is being as stubborn as possible about what he wants until he backs his opposition into a corner and causes them to try a desperate tactic to get him to come to the table and negotiate and he STILL persevered, the Republicans didn't get anything they wanted in regards to Obamacare and the shutdown.

By the way Obama is STILL not negotiating with the Republicans. Notice how I pointed out at the beginning of the article how he is only speaking with Democrats and insurance executives on how to fix this mess? If Obama was truly about negotiating, he'd include House Republicans in this WH meeting as well as the Democrats.
edit on 24-10-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Once Republicans tied their demands to shutting down the government, Obama and the Dems were forced to give in to nothing.

Republicans had to learn that they can't use a government shutdown as a threat to get what they want.

Obama did the right thing for the shutdown, he stood his ground and sent a message to the Republicans that they aren't getting anything by playing games with the US economy. The majority of America agrees with Obama about this...which is why the Republicans came out of that looking so bad.

Now is a different story, now it is regular politics, not a hostage situation. And I still don't think the Dems should agree to a full year delay, just delay it the same amount of time it will take for the website to get up and running 100%.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


If the founding fathers felt it was a non negotiable premise that the debt ceiling is raised without negotiation than they would have made it so. You guys claiming shutting down the government is like hostage taking dont take into acct something is bad wrong when we have to vote to raise the ceiling every year and the country is in bad need of a budget. The only reason all this is an issue is because the democratic congress voted for a bill without reading the friggin thing. Now we have a law that 90 percent of the legislators and the executive branch didnt even bother to read it. The only failing in this case i see is the republicans caving and letting Obama get his way. Their is not a bit of patriotism left in our government and its time to dethrone the two headed party.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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Krazysh0t

Great... Insurance company executives and House Democrats are going to help fix the website by providing assistance through closed door meetings. Does anyone else see anything wrong with that? Why can't the public be informed of what they are changing and why do the insurance executives, who frankly wrote this awful bill, get to help fix this mess?


I think it is closed door because they haven't decided yet..but if they delay the Individual Mandate, it will mess up the economics for Insurance companies, since insurance companies will still be required to cover pre-existing conditions, but will lose the revenue to off-set that cost if the Gov. delays the mandate.

So the WH and Dems need to talk to insurance companies about how big the hit will be, for how long, what can be done to minimize it etc. Any delay means less revenue to Insurance companies...and they were promised that revenue to off-set the new plans covering pre-existing conditions.

So...closed door until they figure out a plan.



Krazysh0t
Wouldn't it make sense to talk to IT companies about fixing this website? You know the people who are going to write the code to fix the glitches... Also why just Democrats? Obama can't even talk to Republicans now? This just looks like another ruse to screw the American people over again.


They are doing a "Tech Surge" as well...and what a stupid choice of phrases the used.

As for no GOP in the meeting...Frankly the GOP have never expressed an inkling of interest in "fixing" obamacare...their presence would serve no other purpose than feeding them ammo for the Anti-Obamacare echo chamber.


Krazysh0t

Basically, to sum this up, if Obama agrees to delay the mandate now due to Democrat pressure, the whole stupid government shutdown could have just been avoided. Yes, I understand that it started off as defund Obamacare, but the Republicans eventually dropped that angle and went with just delaying the individual mandate which Obama steadfastly refused to do. What is Mr. Obama going to do now that Democrats are telling him the same thing?


In fairness, and I know fairness has little to do with politics..

The Debt Ceiling debate and Gov. shutdown was more about issuing unilateral demands with the American Economy as hostage.

I said it before in multiple threads. I don't care if it was GOP or Dem...or a law that I agreed with or opposed, validating the tactic through capitulation would have damaged our way of government for all time with every party for decades to come.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by AlienScience
 


But we could have avoided the ENTIRE government shutdown if instead of Obama being a stubborn mule about Obamacare, he'd provide a counter option of delay the individual mandate to the "defund Obamacare" line the Republicans were spewing pre-shutdown.


Correct me if I am wrong...But there was talk at the time when the GOP met with the President that he was "open" to delaying the mandate. It made the news..but the GOp quickly pounced and "repeal" took the headline again and the President walked back from that opening. Let me know if you want me to google it..back to you shortly..



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


But see here is the problem. The Republicans have been screaming for months that this bill wouldn't work. Obama refused to listen to them. Reports circulated before the ACA went live suggesting that the website was nowhere near ready, yet Obama plowed ahead undeterred.

Now Obama acts all shocked that this stupid program is causing all sorts of problems. Obama swears up and down that he is open to negotiation, but only if by negotiation you mean, acquiesce to all his demands. If he'd have actually listened to these things, we would have known that delaying the individual mandate would have been a good idea. The website was clearly not ready. And even now, he STILL doesn't want to take advise from the Republicans. I'm sorry, you can swear that you want negotiations all you want, but if your actions don't match your words people stop believing you. It really isn't surprising that the Republicans shut the government down. When you are continually ignored, eventually you will try desperate measures. Obama needs to learn how to throw the Republicans a bone every now and then. Instead he actively tries to keep them out of governance and it continues to screw things up.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Advice from Republicans? Their advice has been "repeal"..So this is Dumb and Dumber. While there is definitely problems that need fixing and yes, problems that should have never happened, the GOPs solution has always been burn it down vs. fix it.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


I'm not trying to suggest the Republicans are blameless here. If they want to repeal it or defund it, they need to come up with an alternative because now that the law is live if it were to be taken off of the books there is no way we could go back to the system we had before. The Republicans, if they want to continue that mantra, need to come up with an alternative to Obamacare.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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I really do believe this whole ACA thing was conceived to run all the non players out, and end up with a single payer source. It is hard to conceive anything so ill conceived or presented to be anything more than a front for some ulterior motive.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


But the Obama Admin wants Bipartisanship right? Just not with any of those pesky House Republicans.

It's rather disgusting how, even now, how set in mud both sides are.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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Insurance executives and Democrats meeting behind closed doors, to fix the problems = preemptive damage control.

Millions of policies being terminated...
Dismal failure of the site...
Lack of people signing up...
... translates to ...

Insurance companies still have bills to pay- doctors, nurses, facilities, et cetera, and without this system working, the system faces collapse from within.


edit on 10/24/2013 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by Indigo5
 


I'm not trying to suggest the Republicans are blameless here. If they want to repeal it or defund it, they need to come up with an alternative because now that the law is live if it were to be taken off of the books there is no way we could go back to the system we had before. The Republicans, if they want to continue that mantra, need to come up with an alternative to Obamacare.


The Dems own everything that has and will go wrong with ACA/Obamacare.

The GOP? We need their rational input and always have, not just Obamacare, but Budget etc.

My issue is that GOP have not been rational in recent years.

The best solutions come from rational discourse and debate...and micro-chips and death panels are not rational starting points for discussion.

In my Shangri la...the GOP would have tried 43 times to fix the law, not repeal it.

After Social Security and Medicare were first passed...HUNDREDS of alterations and fixes were passed within the first few years to tweak it.

With ACA...the GOP have refused to consider tweaks...It was an all or nothing battle...Tweaks weren't on the table.

Absent this law we were doomed anyways...#1 in healthcare expense in the world, #37 in healthcare service, Medical bills being the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy for a decade running, even during the Mortgage crisis and Healthcare Costs being the number one driver of Debt both Government and Personal.

There is no going back. Yes we need to fix it.



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Sidenote:

Joe Manchin (d) West Virginia

Also here...


en. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) and Georgia Senate candidate Michelle Nunn added their names Thursday to a growing list of red-state Democrats calling on the administration to delay enrollment in ObamaCare


thehill.com...

The validity of their call for delay is a separate issue, but their motivation seems strategic....a pseudo-anti-mandate position will help them survive some measure of challenge in contested districts in Red States.


edit on 24-10-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 




After Social Security and Medicare were first passed...HUNDREDS of alterations and fixes were passed within the first few years to tweak it.

True.

And it (SS) is still a doomed Ponzi scheme.

The Federal Government is awesome with money, eh?
(Why? Because they can print it.)
edit on 24-10-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


That may have more to do with the fact that the money that was supposed to be put away for SS was hijacked to pay for other things. If the politicians had just left if alone, SS wouldn't be a complete boondoggle right now (though I'm not entirely sure it would be solvent either).



posted on Oct, 24 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
 




After Social Security and Medicare were first passed...HUNDREDS of alterations and fixes were passed within the first few years to tweak it.

True.

And it (SS) is still a doomed Ponzi scheme.

The Federal Government is awesome with money, eh?

edit on 24-10-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)


That is an ideological view, not a factual argument in my strong opinion.

It is a popular thing for conservatives to say, but digging into the numbers shows a different reality.

Social Security Does Not Need a “Bailout”
Alarmists’ Claims Are Unjustified, But Action is Needed to Ensure Long-Term Solvency



But both organizations estimate that, under current trends, the program can continue to pay full benefits from the trust funds until 2037. Thus, Social Security faces no immediate threat.

www.cbpp.org...

It will survive just fine with a couple of tweaks...like means testing.

Medicare Is Not “Bankrupt”


The 2013 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2026; at that point, the payroll taxes and other revenue deposited in the trust fund will still be sufficient to pay 87 percent of Medicare hospital insurance costs

www.cbpp.org...
edit on 24-10-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



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