Revelation 19 : the rider on the white horse

Just a short thread. Christians say the horseman of revelation 19 is none other than Jesus. Very well, but is there an explanation as to why he isn't directly mentioned by his name?....considering Jesus is mentioned by name elsewhere in Revelation. So why mention the riders name as a code - ''faithful and true'', instead of 'Jesus Christ'? I'm just speculating.... But it could well be a reference to another religions prophetic figure also named in a code - ''rightly guided one'' ... aka the Mahdi. Maybe both codes mean the same thing. God knows best.

Can also be seen in a different light as the anti-christ. But this isnt an old belief really, no sources from any religious documents as far as I know

@ thekaboose......... Cant be the anti-christ. The rider has the armies of heaven behind him. Read the chapter, there are plenty of other clues that don't pertain to the AC.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Thats why I said its not an old belief and that there were no religious texts supporting the argument.

Its the way people read it, they see the lamb (as christ) breaking the seals and calling the riders.

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

^^ that one ^^

sk0rpi0n
Just a short thread. Christians say the horseman of revelation 19 is none other than Jesus. Very well, but is there an explanation as to why he isn't directly mentioned by his name?....considering Jesus is mentioned by name elsewhere in Revelation. So why mention the riders name as a code - ''faithful and true'', instead of 'Jesus Christ'? I'm just speculating.... But it could well be a reference to another religions prophetic figure also named in a code - ''rightly guided one'' ... aka the Mahdi. Maybe both codes mean the same thing. God knows best.

edit on 24-10-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Reading this, I can't help but feel that you're being intellectually dishonest.
I suspect that you've consciously neglected to reference the remaining verses of the chapter. Why do I think this?

If you kept reading, you'd reach verse 13:

"He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

Who is the "Word of God"? Jesus.

John 1:1, "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."


Verse 15: "Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter."

Who rules with an Iron Scepter? Jesus.

Psalm 2:7-

"I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

...and who is He in verse 16? "king of kings and lord of lords"!

Who is "King of Kings and Lord of Lords"? Jesus is. c.f. Revelation 17:

"hey will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

That's right - Jesus / The Lamb / King of Kings and Lord of Lords / The Ruler with an Iron Scepter / The Word / Faithful and True

These terms are synonymous. Each is a Title belonging to Jesus Christ.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

So why mention the riders name as a code - ''faithful and true'', instead of 'Jesus Christ'?

That is a simplistic interpretation by literalists to say that this character being described is Jesus.
It is obvious that this "coding" is on purpose meant to indicate that it isn't a particular person but a movement of many people to replace ignorance and superstition with a superior knowledge of righteousness and the nature of the real God.
The main point is the idea of this being a victory, and one that is unstoppable since it has all the forces of Heaven behind it to insure this victory.

@awen......... First off, the verse does NOT say the riders name is the ''word of God''. Jesus is the word of God, true. But at the same time, we read of the word of God in the OT....the word of God came upon certain prophets. Just because Jesus is the word of God, it doesn't mean Jesus, himself, went out to all the Old Testament prophets, So its not solved and its far from ''/thread''.

sk0rpi0n
Just a short thread. Christians say the horseman of revelation 19 is none other than Jesus. Very well, but is there an explanation as to why he isn't directly mentioned by his name?....considering Jesus is mentioned by name elsewhere in Revelation. So why mention the riders name as a code, instead of 'Jesus Christ'? I'm just speculating.... But it could well be a reference to another religions prophetic figure also named in a code - ''rightly guided one'' ... aka the Mahdi. Maybe both codes mean the same thing. God knows best.

edit on 24-10-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

6:
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Again I'm only quoting 6.1 6.2 but where is the code?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus is the word of God, true.

I would question even that.
People like to make that interpretation but it never says that directly.
John 1 says there is a Logos which is God and with God, but it does not ever directly identify it as being a person other than God Himself.
Most likely it just means that God has a power to have things come about by just saying so, with the implication in John that the mission of Jesus on earth was previously prophesied through the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by thekaboose

and behold a white horse and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

That's a different horseman than the one in Revelation 19.
You are looking at the first of the Four Horseman.
The one in 19 is associated with the wedding feast of the lamb.

The "lamb" with the seals in the room of the Ancient of Days is actually a ram, and is figurative, using imagery from the constellation, with the seven eyes being representative of the Pleiades.
See my thread, Revelation Describing Astrological Interpretation of Constellations?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

jmdewey60
reply to post by thekaboose

 

and behold a white horse and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

That's a different horseman than the one in Revelation 19.
You are looking at the first of the Four Horseman.
The one in 19 is associated with the wedding feast of the lamb.

Sorry, major brain fart on my behalf for some reason my brain couldnt work beyond 6

Awen24

sk0rpi0n
Just a short thread. Christians say the horseman of revelation 19 is none other than Jesus. Very well, but is there an explanation as to why he isn't directly mentioned by his name?....considering Jesus is mentioned by name elsewhere in Revelation. So why mention the riders name as a code - ''faithful and true'', instead of 'Jesus Christ'? I'm just speculating.... But it could well be a reference to another religions prophetic figure also named in a code - ''rightly guided one'' ... aka the Mahdi. Maybe both codes mean the same thing. God knows best.

edit on 24-10-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Reading this, I can't help but feel that you're being intellectually dishonest.
I suspect that you've consciously neglected to reference the remaining verses of the chapter. Why do I think this?

If you kept reading, you'd reach verse 13:

"He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

Who is the "Word of God"? Jesus.

John 1:1, "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."


Verse 15: "Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter."

Who rules with an Iron Scepter? Jesus.

Psalm 2:7-

"I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

...and who is He in verse 16? "king of kings and lord of lords"!

Who is "King of Kings and Lord of Lords"? Jesus is. c.f. Revelation 17:

"hey will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

That's right - Jesus / The Lamb / King of Kings and Lord of Lords / The Ruler with an Iron Scepter / The Word / Faithful and True

These terms are synonymous. Each is a Title belonging to Jesus Christ.

edit on 24-10-2013 by Awen24 because: (no reason given)

I am just quoting this answer simply because it IS the answer.

I cant star and flag a post so quoting it is the closest I can come.

reply to post by thekaboose


Call me a Flipping Idiot if you want, but somehow, in some weird way I can see the hand of Edward Snowden in that verse.

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

The Seal being the US Great Seal.
Having disclosed confidential information is symbolic of him breaking the seal, breaking his pact with the Great Seal, The US Govt.
Or historical symbology is akin to somebody having to break the wax seal on an envelope to discover the information, or secrets inside.
When the NSA spying scandal hit the fan, well it has created its own global Thunder.
And of course one of the 4 beasts saying to the world "Come and see" look at what the NSA are doing?

Uh Oh I don't think I got enough sleep last night. No more red cordial for me.

reply to post by Awen24

That's right - Jesus / The Lamb / King of Kings and Lord of Lords / The Ruler with an Iron Scepter / The Word / Faithful and True

These terms are synonymous. Each is a Title belonging to Jesus Christ.

"Iron Scepters" is not unique to the Book of Psalms, and was a sort of universal symbol of military and police power and authority.

You are using circular argument by supporting the titles "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" since it is only found in Revelation in the New Testament.

"The Lamb" is not directly identified as Jesus by Revelation.
John the Baptist identified Jesus as the "lamb" but was making a reference to Isaiah 53 and the suffering servant.
Revelation uses a different word in the Greek (for lamb and young ram) than the Gospels.

Jeremiah 42:5
Then they said to Jeremiah, "May the LORD be a true and faithful witness against us if we do not act in accordance with everything the LORD your God sends you to tell us.
(2011 NIV)

IMO ..The Holy Spirit in conveying the truth to us has used specific words and titles in a way to maintain perfect order .Seven's are used through the bible both topically and under the surface as well .I think there is a good reason why but unless you search for it you may never know .I have always been amazed how God can and does give an answer to my questions .He may even be leading me to my next question .But for Him to use a certain title at a certain place is for His good reasons to do so ....peace

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The rider unleasehed in the first seal riding the white horse is indeed the antichrist, for we see in the book of revelations that Jesus wears many crowns not one. Also how can Jesus go out to conquer wene he is in heaven sitting on the Fathers right hand. Jesus is not going to come until the very end which no man knows that day or hour not even Jesus but the Father only.

reply to post by 2WitnessesArrived

The rider unleasehed in the first seal riding the white horse is indeed the antichrist

Having trouble keeeping up with the OP, I see. The horseman in chapter 19, is NOT the same as the 4 horseman.

jmdewey60
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Jesus is the word of God, true.

I would question even that.
People like to make that interpretation but it never says that directly.
John 1 says there is a Logos which is God and with God, but it does not ever directly identify it as being a person other than God Himself.
Most likely it just means that God has a power to have things come about by just saying so, with the implication in John that the mission of Jesus on earth was previously prophesied through the Holy Spirit.

edit on 24-10-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

What Jesus do you follow then?

This is a strange Jesus you are talking about. Are you burning a strange fire for another god? I don't know this Jesus you are referring to, the Jesus I know is the Word of God made flesh and dwelt among men. What other logos dwelt (lived) among men?

Really, you have a strange Jesus and not the one in the Bible.

Here you go...And he shall be called Emmanuel meaning God with us, and in heaven, the voice spoke to John saying, behold the tabernacle of God is with men. John was His friend and disciple, you mean to tell me that John followed Jesus and even was exiled for it, that John was talking about another Jesus?

What Jesus are you following?

sk0rpi0n
Just a short thread. Christians say the horseman of revelation 19 is none other than Jesus. Very well, but is there an explanation as to why he isn't directly mentioned by his name?....considering Jesus is mentioned by name elsewhere in Revelation. So why mention the riders name as a code - ''faithful and true'', instead of 'Jesus Christ'? I'm just speculating.... But it could well be a reference to another religions prophetic figure also named in a code - ''rightly guided one'' ... aka the Mahdi. Maybe both codes mean the same thing. God knows best.

edit on 24-10-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

If you read the previous part of that chapter, it says the angel told John the only one worthy of breaking the seal was Jesus.

The purpose for not calling Him Jesus in heaven, is that His divine name is Emmanuel, God with us. He is called the tabernacle of God that dwells among men.

If you read Revelation, it says that we get a new name in heaven.

He who WAS and IS and IS TO COME, asher h'yah vehoveh v'yavoh. We do see His many attributes in heaven as they have been given by the prophets, The Rod of Iron, The Root of Jesse, The Offspring of David, The Branch, The Vine, The One Who Stands In the Midst of the Seven Golden Candlesticks (the menorah), The Lamb, The Word of God, The Tabernacle of God, The King of Kings, The Lord of Lords, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. The Bright and Morning Star, The Light, The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, The Son, The Kinsman Redeemer, Salvation, I Am and the list goes on and on.

There was no coding, it was all prophesied since the beginning. It's really not worth it to attempt to put Greek or Roman attributes back onto Him, as He did not come from Greece or Rome, He was sent to Israel, specifically to Jerusalem. As He is a priest after the order of Melchizedeck forever, and Melchizedeck did not come from Greece or Rome, but Jerusalem, then you have to take it as the Jewish prophets had seen Him and reported Him.

God does know best, that's why Jesus was sent to Jerusalem, after telling the Jewish prophets about Him, several of which actually saw Him. The Psalmist said "I saw the Lord say unto My Lord, sit thou on my right hand". As Isaiah said "I saw the Lord on His throne, high and lifted up". As Enoch said "The Lord's return". And even Nebuchadnezzar saw Him "I see a fourth man".

So it is all about Jesus, but since you asked about the horseman, Jesus broke the seal because He was the only one found worthy to do so. And since Jesus was called Faithful and True, then if that's the rider on the white horse, then what did the rider do? He went forth to conquer death. And who conquered death? Jesus.

reply to post by WarminIndy

What Jesus do you follow then?

The one in the Bible.
It doesn't call Jesus "the word of God".
In the Greek, it doesn't say "the word was made flesh", that is an interpretation made by the translators to fit what some people already thought, maybe from reading Latin versions.