Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

BO XIAN
The Catechism is such a tome . . . written with so many perspectives and qualifiers . . . there's more wiggle room than a limbo and belly dancer combined could encompass.

Can you cite specific examples of that? I think that the Catechism does a pretty good job of articulating what the church teaches and, more importantly, WHY it teaches what it does. It is very specific in those areas, because it is, ultimately, what a Catholic can point back to in order to see if they are in communion with church teaching or not.

Such a clear and stated document of doctrine is one of the reasons that I converted from the Methodist church, which had something similar, the Book of Discipline, but you could still find radically different theologies in different congregations of the same church.

But if you want to point out specific areas of the Catechism (just cite the paragraph number,) I'd like to see what you see as intentional waffling in that text.

reply to post by adjensen



Will try sometime this coming week to drag the tome out and see what I can find. I didn't mark it up . . . what snatches I read. It's not a fast paced thriller.

I don't really know how much of it was humanly intentionally obtuse.

I think dark spiritual forces certainly contributed to that result. It may be that humans deliberately made it that way.

In some respects, it would be a major challenge with that many words to insure that they were all congruent with one another. LOL.

However, I've long found the fiercer RC's quite adept at arguing whatever side of the fence they felt AT THE TIME most supported the RCC.

That's always been . . . sad.

When a pope is praised by the those who are anti-Christian, anti-Biblical, and Muslims, and at the same time he makes an insulting statement against fundamental Christianity, there is a serious problem. The idea of the Vatican will be involved and support the emergence of the anti-Christ starts to take shape.

When man makes his own rules and ignores what is in the Bible, it is no longer Christianity, that is what the Vatican has been doing for a long time now.
The only thing he said I do agree with is that we should love one another, Jesus commanded us to do this. Hate the sin, but love the sinner... because we are all sinners to some degree or another.

reply to post by BO XIAN


The best way to "read" the Catechism is to use the index. Look up some term, and then use the paragraph numbers to drill down into what the church teaches -- each paragraph will generally have one or more additional paragraph numbers that are directly related written in the margins, which is why having a physical copy is far more useful than reading it online. But putting all of the disparate paragraphs together allows one to see what the church teaches on that subject, and why it teaches that.

Yes, attempting to read it from cover to cover would generally result in putting the reader to sleep by page five or so, lol.

Kaboose
When a pope is praised by the those who are anti-Christian, anti-Biblical, and Muslims, and at the same time he makes an insulting statement against fundamental Christianity, there is a serious problem.

Are you familiar with this quote?

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. -- Mahatma Gandhi

While the wording might be spurious, the intent is not -- Christians rarely act like Christ, and it is unsurprising that non-Christians are praising someone who is actually telling Christians to act like Christ. If you read Pope Francis' admonitions of the last six months, they're all pretty much in line with that statement -- if you are a follower of Christ, start acting like it.

When man makes his own rules and ignores what is in the Bible, it is no longer Christianity, that is what the Vatican has been doing for a long time now.

I would challenge you, as well, to provide direct evidence that Pope Francis "ignores what is in the Bible". From what I've seen, he follows it a lot closer than a lot of people.

adjensen

swanne
Any info on the trend after 2010? Like, on 2013.

That's where my "1.2 billion" number comes from:

According to the Census of the 2013 Annuario Pontificio (Pontifical Yearbook), the number of Catholics in the world was about 1.21 billion at the end of 2011. (Source)

In other words, the church population continues to grow (mostly in developing nations, though church demographics in Europe and North America are shrinking FAR less than mainline Protestant churches.) I can't link you to the source directly -- it's a hard cover book, written in Latin, that costs about 75 Euros, but you can buy it here.

Hm, I didn't know that. Well, better late than never.

Many thanks again mate!

A confessional is a small, enclosed booth used for the Sacrament of Penance, often called confession, or Reconciliation. It is the usual venue for the sacrament ...



every Priest,,Bishop,,Cardinal,,should have too spend a madatory,, 5 hrs / day,,, in the "confessional box",, forgiving sins, and bestoing, blessings, upon the people.

I never liked the,, "its ok too confess your sins out in the open,, and the don't worry about it,, god forgives u automatically,,,crap.

3 HailMary's and an Our Father,, and a promise not too sin again,. boy for some reason ,,as a kid,, it really felt,, uplifting

well untill next Sundays, confessionall,,,,AND NO EUCHARIST!,,till u go!

ahhhh the old days.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I would like to note that Catholics are not Christians and Christians aren't Catholics. Christians believe that NO MAN stands between God and Man. Christians do not repent to a priest. Priest/Bishops/Popes have NO AUTHORITY to "absolve" you of Sin or allow passage to heaven/hell. Catholics believe you can lose your salvation by commiting a sin. Christians do not. Christians do not worship Mary, the mother of Jesus. In 1854, Pope Pius IX declared Mary sinless, which is COMPLETE CONTRADICTION to the Bible where it says (Romans 3:23) ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. The Catholic church is probably the single largest tool of Satan out there.

reply to post by BobAthome

every Priest,,Bishop,,Cardinal,,should have too spend a madatory,, 5 hrs / day,,, in the "confessional box",, forgiving sins, and bestoing, blessings, upon the people.

And who guards the guards themselves?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The only ideology of Christianity should be radical love! You know...that "For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son" stuff... Yeah that's it!

Following Christ is not a culture. It's not a set of rules. It's not trying to do good or any of that stuff associated with religion. It is an acknowledgement that we are flawed and in need of grace. It is simply allowing ourselves to be loved. That is the highest and greatest message of Jesus. And when we allow God to love us, then and only then we can really see how to love other people, including ourselves.

Romans 8:38-39

"38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This is the message!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


"they",,would not be guarding,,anything,,,but serving,,,maybe set up outside a "Starbucks",,

reply to post by DrReco


2000 years old,,,take that Shakespear,,

reply to post by BobAthome


I don't see how that answers my question.

evilmonkey
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I would like to note that Catholics are not Christians and Christians aren't Catholics. Christians believe that NO MAN stands between God and Man.

No, by definition, Christians are those who profess the Nicene Creed, they are not people who adhere to a single doctrine that you, apparently, put forth as the only requirement. You have the ability to set out standards for who you THINK is a Christian, you do not have the authority to decide who IS a Christian -- that was done 1,700 years ago.

Christians do not repent to a priest. Priest/Bishops/Popes have NO AUTHORITY to "absolve" you of Sin or allow passage to heaven/hell.

That's not what the Bible says.

If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." (John 20:23 NIV)

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16 NIV)

Christians do not worship Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Hate to break it to you, but Catholics do not worship Mary.

reply to post by Biigs




The Pope should be more concerned about his own religion rather than worry about what the Christians are doing. His own religion is crumbling at his feet, and he wants to tell me how to think ? I don't think so.

Well i can say this: If Jesus returns for the second coming, we will have the best evidence to retrace everything:

Tweets "Jesus just did another miracle, lol, love this guy and his dad so much" - John #deciple #love

Instagram "check it out, Jesus came back, back in black and check out those DG sunglasses!"

....and so on

St. Peter's Basilica was constructed in the shape of a serpent. I'm not saying they're ruled by Satan (who likely doesn't exist), but certainly The Vatican is part of the Brotherhood, and not Christian.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


ok

tothetenthpower
I love this new pope.

No really, and I'm an agnostic, bordering atheist.

Source.

Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.

“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”

So now, that you have what seems to be a real Christian at the head of the church, what will the super ultra right wing religious people say?

That he's the devil? That he doesn't understand the teachings of Jesus and the Bible?

I see a schism coming here, and huge one if this pope continues to try and lead the Christian world into this new, and proper direction.

Thoughts?

~Tenth

He's the devil...He doesn't understand...this new direction is wrong!

Seriously though, why is this the proper direction? Why is it that to have moral beliefs and stick by them you have to be "super ultra right wing religious?" I have beliefs that I simply choose to believe in and have chosen to believe in them for as long as I can remember, and if you don't agree, then my beliefs are wrong and I'm a religious wingnut...

I believe that this new "proper direction" is the wrong one, but that is my belief and I don't attack you for your beliefs.

adjensen

evilmonkey
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I would like to note that Catholics are not Christians and Christians aren't Catholics. Christians believe that NO MAN stands between God and Man.

No, by definition, Christians are those who profess the Nicene Creed, they are not people who adhere to a single doctrine that you, apparently, put forth as the only requirement. You have the ability to set out standards for who you THINK is a Christian, you do not have the authority to decide who IS a Christian -- that was done 1,700 years ago.

Christians do not repent to a priest. Priest/Bishops/Popes have NO AUTHORITY to "absolve" you of Sin or allow passage to heaven/hell.

That's not what the Bible says.

If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." (John 20:23 NIV)

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16 NIV)

Christians do not worship Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Hate to break it to you, but Catholics do not worship Mary.

Thanks for those replies. It annoys me when people who are not Catholic try to tell Catholics what they believe--especially if all of their "knowledge" comes form a Jack Trick tract.