Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

Tucket

OneManArmy

tothetenthpower


So now, that you have what seems to be a real Christian at the head of the church, what will the super ultra right wing religious people say?

That he's the devil? That he doesn't understand the teachings of Jesus and the Bible?

A true christian doesnt worship christ

Tell that to the millions of Christians who go to church each Sunday and worship Jesus.

And therein lies the problem.
Most "christians" dont even go to church, of those that do, many are only there to "do their bit" and be saved just by attending church to keep up with the jones', or to get their kids into a well achieving religious school. True christianity is a way of life, worshipping the message and using it as moral guidance not the worshipping of the messenger. The roman catholic church is a political organisation, the church isnt about religion or morality, its about control and financial gain. It is a true globalist player and one of the most powerful contenders.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I am not a religious person either but this is one Pope I like!!

He seems to not care who he offends or what group he pisses off.

I like him

tothetenthpower
I love this new pope.

No really, and I'm an agnostic, bordering atheist.

Source.

Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.

“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”

So now, that you have what seems to be a real Christian at the head of the church, what will the super ultra right wing religious people say?

That he's the devil? That he doesn't understand the teachings of Jesus and the Bible?

I see a schism coming here, and huge one if this pope continues to try and lead the Christian world into this new, and proper direction.

Thoughts?

~Tenth

Well, I guess "super right wing Christian" is a bit of an arbitrary and artificial label. If you mean fundamentalist/evangelical protestants, they already think the Pope is the whore of Babylon (see Jack Chick and his anti-Catholic screeds) and I doubt it will make much difference.

As for Catholics, I think he will bring a lot back to the church, especially those who left because they saw it as too materialistic. He is already in the process of closing the Vatican bank--when I was in Italy a few weeks ago, he had already gave some 900 account holders their money back and told them to go bank elsewhere.

Although Catholicism is the largest single Christian denomination, other Christian denominations don't see the Pope as any sort of leader so I don't see him having much effect, except indirectly by good example.

I was raised Catholic- hardcore- and I now identify as a Gnostic...

The main reason I left the traditional Catholic faith was mainly their "holier than thou" attitude towards anyone outside of the faith. "If you aren't Catholic you go to hell, if you aren't the "right kind" of Catholic you go to hell etc."

Pope Frances, thus far, has impressed me as a true "man of faith", rather than a "man of religion"... I believe that is a huge step in the right direction for the Vatican. Too many of these Cardinals (including Ratzinger) are pure scholars; before his election he authored the newest version of the Catechism. Men of books, not men of real spiritual insight.

The current priest at the church I used to attend is a true man of faith. He too is a scholar (actually a brilliant theologion and linguist), but what comes across when you talk to him isn't about what he knows, so much as it is what he truly believes. I first met him last year, and when I told him I identified as a Gnostic he actually smiled and said "wow"... then we discussed Gnosticism for well over an hour. Never once did he attempt to "bring me back into the family"... instead, he encouraged me to follow my heart and my faith. I was honestly blown away. That is faith vs. religion. Belief before doctrine...

I really do hope that this man of faith can inspire true change in the church... the question on my mind is just how much longer will the corrupt in the Vatican let the man live?

I love this Pope. My wife has wanted me to become Catholic but I always tell her I think that Church Worships itself not Christ. I think this Pope is changing that. May rethink things.

reply to post by madmac5150

The main reason I left the traditional Catholic faith was mainly their "holier than thou" attitude towards anyone outside of the faith. "If you aren't Catholic you go to hell, if you aren't the "right kind" of Catholic you go to hell etc."

This is completely untrue. If someone at your church said that to you then they were dead wrong. The Catholic church does not teach that non-Catholics go to hell. The catechism teaches that if you die with mortal sins on your soul you will go to hell. Of course there are other factors involved and only God knows if you will end up in Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. Jews, other Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, etc.. all have their chance to go to Heaven. I'm sorry you were taught the wrong thing.

Sportbominable
reply to post by madmac5150

 

The main reason I left the traditional Catholic faith was mainly their "holier than thou" attitude towards anyone outside of the faith. "If you aren't Catholic you go to hell, if you aren't the "right kind" of Catholic you go to hell etc."

This is completely untrue. If someone at your church said that to you then they were dead wrong. The Catholic church does not teach that non-Catholics go to hell. The catechism teaches that if you die with mortal sins on your soul you will go to hell. Of course there are other factors involved and only God knows if you will end up in Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. Jews, other Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, etc.. all have their chance to go to Heaven. I'm sorry you were taught the wrong thing.

Think Catholic school in the mid 1970s with very angry nuns... the local diocese is also Jesuit... left me scarred

reply to post by tothetenthpower


No doubt about it. This pope makes me smile. They really upgraded from Pope Palpatine.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


So you're saying that this pope is a false prophet?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


This man firstly says that you don't have to be a believer in Christ to be saved. Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the light, no-one comes to the Father except by me". Seems to be a conflict there.

Now the Pope is saying that having an ideology causes people to abandon Jesus and 'true Christianity' - does it?

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:4-6 from the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge).

chr0naut
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

This man firstly says that you don't have to be a believer in Christ to be saved.

This is a good example of how the mass media spins what Francis says, because that is NOT what he said. Again, read what Catholic media reports, because they report the full quote, and provide the context.

Contrary to claims otherwise, Pope Francis did not say that atheists can go to heaven without coming to faith, and he most certainly did not say that man can save himself by his own efforts.

Indeed, he speaks of the need for God’s mercy. (Source)

swanne

As he is presented with the "scientific facts" which Geneva generated since decades, (the new pope - the one after Benedict XVI) destroys the Vatican once and for all, saying that Vatican was, and always has been, the Antichrist's dwelling. The people will love him.

Source

I wrote that back in January, while Benedict XVI was still Pope.

The purpose of Francis is to create a new vatican which will actually merge with quantum "science", new age and seduce even more minds than ever before.

To seduce more minds, this pope must first look like a good guy. So, he destroys the old Vatican.

All that I already predicted it almost 11 months ago, while Ben was still Pope and the Vatican was fully conservative.

edit on 22-10-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

Merge Christian with science and new age?
that's awesome!!!
It's about time to marry science and religion.
The world are in chaos and we are too blind to see that.
The Merging could cure The Blinds.
Right now, anywhere, we see too many blinds leading the blinds
When a blind leading a blind, both will fall into a hole.
If you cannot see that the ones (right wing leaders) who leads you are blinds, you are absolutely blind!!
I cant wait to hear more antichrist rumors from the true antichrists themselves

peace.

chr0naut
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

This man firstly says that you don't have to be a believer in Christ to be saved. Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the light, no-one comes to the Father except by me". Seems to be a conflict there.

Now the Pope is saying that having an ideology causes people to abandon Jesus and 'true Christianity' - does it?

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:4-6 from the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge).

edit on 22/10/2013 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

If you believe that Just Believing in Jesus is enough to get you to Heaven, You are worshipping The Beast (Ideology)

'Believe in Jesus (or any other prophets) will get You to Heaven, Otherwise, You'll go to Hell' is The Hottest Ideology.

peace.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I like what he's saying, but I'm wondering if he's the subject in the third secret of Fatima- the apostasy at the head of the Church.

jjkenobi
Can someone explain "ideological Christians"? Does it boil down to you can do anything you want, nobody can say you are wrong, to heck with morals, and everyone will still go to Heaven?

To make it Ideological, 'that everyone' has to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

In other words,
Ideological Christian is something like this: (there other versions like prosperity gospels)
Believe in Jesus and do anything you like and you'll still go to Heaven.

Bonus: Maybe you'll get raptured before tribulations happen!! (depending on your Faith) and requested to lead The Army of Heaven to combat AntiChrists!

peace.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

So you're saying that this pope is a false prophet?

Read what he said. He denied that Jesus is God. When he comes out and says that Jesus is God and one comes to salvation through Jesus then I will think he is serving God. I let his words speak for the truth of the matter of whether he is false or true. It's Catholics saying, "That's not what he meant" while he does not come out and say it. Did you visit the site for the other info I linked to?

I am not judging the world. I am repeating what the bible says, and if one claims to be a Christian and denies the divinity of Messiah, denies the atonement offered only through him on the Cross, then they are NOT a Christian. One would at least expect the Pope to speak those truths, but according to Francis, you don't even have to believe in God to get to heaven. I laugh when I hear Catholics say, "That's not what he said" when in fact that is exactly what he said.

So, are you a Christian? Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe one only goes to heaven through Jesus? If not, then you simply deny what Jesus said, and what the bible says. It's your right to do that, but it's not biblical.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Thanks for the post! Where was this guy during the burning times? maybe the Europeans would have been lot less vicious if they weren't spending all that time killing each other over they're Sunday book club ! ! ! !

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I am a member of the super religious American right wing. The Pope is not the devil. An example of what he is talking about is the ideology of same sex marriage somehow being condoned by Christianity. Or, that abortion is somehow condoned by Christianity. You might need to understand that some of the far left liberals espouse this clap trap when they claim Jesus is a liberal - hint: they are making Jesus an ideological figure to promulgate their political social agendas.

tothetenthpower
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

I also have a question for you, what is it that makes you decide that this pope is a "real" christian, as opposed to any other christian.

because true Christians don't go around judging others for their behavior and creating legal challenges for their rights. Nor do they call for violence or mistreatment of people who do not follow their ways.

Who made you judge, as an agnostic bordering on atheism, on what constitutes the qualification of "real" Christianity?

I was raised Roman catholic and stayed in the church till my early twenties. I've read the bible in two different languages, the Koran in Arabic and every other religious text you can think of.

I'm not here to judge anybody, I'm simply applying the rules that Jesus put forth in his teachings, to those of today.

Pope Francis is following those teachings.

~Tenth

You seem to be forgetting that Jesus went around teaching scriptural law - especially when it concerned marriage.

Be careful that you don't step in the liberal fantasy world's ideology.

tencap77
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Thanks for the post!

Where was this guy during the burning times? maybe the Europeans would have been lot less vicious if they weren't spending all that time killing each other over they're Sunday book club ! ! ! !

You know what is so farcical is you actually believe all that happened over religion. It happened to consolidate power, to get rid of true Christians who did not bow to the Roman Empire. The RCC actually used the Muslims they set up to go to war against those they who called themselves Christian but did not obey Rome. The RCC history is all about usurping power from the true disciples, bastardizing worship, changing the commandments of God, and stopping observing the Feasts of the Lord.

My bible clearly says the apostles kept the feasts, Yeshua kept them and the bible tells us to keep them in perpetuity. They changed the sabbath Yeshua was sacrificed on (Passover) to a fertility sun worship pagan day of Easter (bunnies and eggs, sunrise service), and away from the September feasts to Christmas to make Romans happy to observe Christmas / Saturnalia and their sex magick rituals. Heck, the bible even forbids cutting down trees and fixing them to stand and decorating them and yet here we are 2000 years later doing another pagan thing just to consolidate power and NOT obey God. Jesus would Not do these things, and that is my first rule. What would Jesus do?

Jeremiah 10 NIV

1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel.

2 This is what the LORD says:
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.

3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.