Lifestyles of the rich and famous: Obscene wealth inequality at it's worst

DeadSeraph

eLPresidente

DeadSeraph

eLPresidente
Anybody arguing that government prevents monopolies please answer how Monsanto has so much representation within the federal government/FDA and how that benefits them.

This whole idea that government is necessary to help poor people be on equal footing with rich people is absolutely insane.

If anything, our government, through social policies KEEPS people poor.


Why does it feel like so many people on ATS buy typical B.S. rhetoric by people who don't understand what they are talking about?

How are corporations kept in check when it comes to monopolies then? Is it not through the law? If there were no laws against monopolies, what would prevent them? Who writes laws? Government. Sure... The government is corrupt and is in bed with the corporations. You won't get any argument from me there. But if you are honestly suggesting that corporations should be regulated even less to solve the issue of corruption and crony capitalism than I have no idea what is left to discuss.

You can parrot Ron Paul all you like. I like Ron Paul. I was hoping he'd win the presidency based on his libertarian values alone, but in the back of my mind I was always worried about his economic policies. You can't let the rich run roughshod over the poor in the name of "freedom". That's freedom for one group of people, and serfdom for the other.

The more and more I write the less and less I make any sense so I'll just stop here.

edit on 24-10-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Fixed that for you.

Right, and that obviously doesn't support your argument in anyway. It just goes to show you are not here for an actual debate, only to shovel your crap down everyone's throat. It is very reminiscent of government and their stranglehold they have over Americans via the MONOPOLIZED use of force.

How ironic.


I posed an example with Apple to you earlier and you chose to ignore it because you don't want to answer to that example. Figures.

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by macman

 

Capitalism breeds corruption

Everything breeds corruption, the difference between Capitalism and the rest is that at the end of the day, companies need to compete to stay alive, they all share from a consumer base that get to make a conscious decision before they purchase something. Nobody is putting a gun to your head, nobody is going to fine you, and nobody is going to put you in jail to force you to buy something. That is real capitalism, that is real free markets.

reply to post by eLPresidente


So you agree with the spirit of competition within free market economics but you are ok with monopolies. Seems legit.

The main reason western countries are still waelthy and have an good infastructure of roads and hospitals and schools etc..is because western countries like the Britain, France, portugal, Spain and Germany have a history of invading other parts of the world in order to expolit natural reasources and labor markets..once it was slavery now its sweat shops..same thing, different name.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


No, the main reason Western countries are wealthy is that our culture has a reasonably fair legal system, reasonably functional leadership where bribery is something that you are cautious about offering, not something that's the cultural norm. Science isn't crippled by religion, women have bordering on equal status and education is the norm rather than the exception.

The reason poor countries end up manufacturing basic goods for the west is the massive cost of labour in developed counties. A £3 t-shirt manufactures in China would be £10 in the UK. It's simple economics. And do these countries resent making this stuff? Apparently not. They fight each other for the contracts.

The poverty in poor countries is largely self induced due to their indigenous cultures. It's why large companies are loathe to invest in them. There's an excellent book called 'Dead Aid' which explains why African culture and leadership is mainly to blame for it's poverty. Overtly corrupt legal systems are toxic to investment and the creation of wealth. Private investors don't mind risk, but if money is lost to to the local legal system's corruption, they won't give it another go.

You need to understand that Western technology has given us access to otherwise unusable resources that the locals of many tech poor countries had zero use for, and our using them allows them to trade with us for stuff they need.

I'm not saying it's a totally fair system, but a major source of the woes of poor nations are their own people and cultures. Europe lived in grinding poverty in the dark ages when religious fundamentalism, ignorance and oppression were the norm. Don't be suppressed that these factors drag down other cultures, and don't blame us for their failings.

AutOmatIc

Spookybelle
Its about their bottom-line, a persons monetary status is irrelevant.

Yep. Because one day we are all going to die. Then what happens? What was it all for? Why are we even here on this planet? To be slaves? To be gods? To get rich? And then what? This world is in dire need of a serious reset.

edit on 24-10-2013 by AutOmatIc because: reset

edit on 24-10-2013 by AutOmatIc because: gods

We're here to be the caretakers of the Earth and it's lower life forms (Animals) which we're failing at miserably, and I agree we're in serious need of a reset.

macman

So, so liberals are capitalists????

Isnt it obvious they are? They simply add welfare statism to the capitalist stew.

Shall I point to Al Gore maybe? Or maybe the Clinton's? They call themselves liberals..

And that is exactly what they are...liberals!

No, Govt breeds corruption, along with totalitarian state.

turn it around 180 degrees.

Capitalism breeds people that work for a living. Not just work, but own it as well. It breeds people actually pushing forward to EARN what they get.

Yeah they work 3 part time jobs, the rest are on unemployment and then on welfare.

Liberals, classic liberals I don't have a problem with. Progressives, again, are the problem.

And I have a problem with uninformed folks like you. You can lead a horse to water but cant force it to drink. Have you heard of that saying before? Giddy, giddy..the horse is stubborn

DeadSeraph
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

So you agree with the spirit of competition within free market economics but you are ok with monopolies. Seems legit.

He didn't say anything like that.

It is obvious that you don't know what a Monopoly actually is.

His Apple example was perfect:

If Apple made a phone so good, so efficient, and so popular that they took 90% of the smartphone market share, would that trigger you to demand the federal government to split up Apple's assets and maybe give some parts of Apple's company to maybe politicians? Or maybe make Apple's new USA assembly public property? Who are you to say that a company that makes products people want can't have a supermajority of the market share? Is it even possible?

In this case, even if Apple pulled this off, there is nothing to stop their competition from doing something better. Or, there is nothing to actually stop anyone from competing with them, which is key.

If Apple went to the government to have legislation passed that made it illegal for anyone but Apple to sell phones, then Apple would have a Monopoly. Because they would be using the force of law to effectively disband any potential competition. That is precisely what monopolies always have been--Businesses appealing to governments to eliminate their competition.

Microsoft never had a monopoly on anything. They had competition, both with their operating system and with their browser. Windows had to compete with various forms of Unix, Linux, and MAC OS (and still does). Internet Explorer was answered with Mozilla Firefox, Safari, Opera, and Chrome (some of the best browsers available).

You do not have the right to stop people from spending their money in a manner that they see fit. If someone wants to buy gold-plated toilet seats, so what?

EarthCitizen07

Isnt it obvious they are? They simply add welfare statism to the capitalist stew.

So, they are Liberal Capitalistic. The worst of any politician. A true hypocrite.

EarthCitizen07

And that is exactly what they are...liberals!

No, Liberals aligned themselves more so with Libertarians, not Progressives.
The Progressive mindset has corrupted both sides.

EarthCitizen07

turn it around 180 degrees.

Yeah, wealth doesn't create that. Wealth is just an after affect of doing something successfully.
I understand you love Govt, but this truly is out of hand. This idea that more Govt is needed, as we can see in full display as the US Govt becomes bigger, our problems grow as well.
Wealth does not seek more control, it is wealth.
Govt is self serving and always seeks further expansion for more Govt.

EarthCitizen07

Yeah they work 3 part time jobs, the rest are on unemployment and then on welfare.

That is what happens when Progressives put their hands into the mix. You get this crap we have now.

EarthCitizen07
And I have a problem with uninformed folks like you. You can lead a horse to water but cant force it to drink. Have you heard of that saying before? Giddy, giddy..the horse is stubborn

Drink the crap you pitch??? Regardless what you call it, it is still a big steaming

So, how many people has say, communism, or socialism helped to become independent and wealthy?
Just wondering.

macman

So, they are Liberal Capitalistic. The worst of any politician. A true hypocrite.

agreed for once.

EarthCitizen07

No, Liberals aligned themselves more so with Libertarians, not Progressives.
The Progressive mindset has corrupted both sides.

When did america have real socialism? Care to elaborate? Did fidel castro and his army invade us of a? You really dont know what the heck you are talking about...par for the course on ATS I suppose. The more lies mixed in with paranoia the more hits ATS gets which is good for advertising. The ccoommiees are coming...runnnnnn! mccarthy is proud of you. keep it up!

You want to know the truth? The only liberals that went libertarian were the ones that were socially liberal, since libertarians are socially liberal. All the real liberals are still liberal, those that were both financially and socially liberal.

There is a real socialist party in america(progressive) and there is also a real communist party in america. They get less than 50,000 votes in urban areas like nyc, detroit, phili, la, chicago.

Yeah, wealth doesn't create that. Wealth is just an after affect of doing something successfully.
I understand you love Govt, but this truly is out of hand. This idea that more Govt is needed, as we can see in full display as the US Govt becomes bigger, our problems grow as well.
Wealth does not seek more control, it is wealth.
Govt is self serving and always seeks further expansion for more Govt.

Govt and extreme wealth go hand in hand. Govt loves these rich folks cause they bribe like crazy and they always get away with it. Poor people dont have much dough to bribe with, they use their cash to buy food and put gas in their 20 year old car.

So, how many people has say, communism, or socialism helped to become independent and wealthy?
Just wondering.

To become wealthy, none. That is not the goal of either socialism or communism. The goal is to give everyone a job and a roof over their head. Plenty of independant people though, in that they can show up for work 2 hours late and still have a job. The boss, the government, is not a petty asshole like in capitalist countries.

EarthCitizen07

When did america have real socialism? Care to elaborate? Did fidel castro and his army invade us of a? You really dont know what the heck you are talking about...par for the course on ATS I suppose. The more lies mixed in with paranoia the more hits ATS gets which is good for advertising. The ccoommiees are coming...runnnnnn! mccarthy is proud of you. keep it up!

Did I state anything about it in America?????
Noooooo. No I did not.
How is it working in all the other places that have it currently??? Just wondering.
When did I say within this thread that communism was ruining the country?
Seems that you jumped with a "burn" that you have been saving up, that doesn't apply here.

EarthCitizen07
You want to know the truth? The only liberals that went libertarian were the ones that were socially liberal, since libertarians are socially liberal. All the real liberals are still liberal, those that were both financially and socially liberal.

Yes I am well aware of that.

EarthCitizen07
There is a real socialist party in america(progressive) and there is also a real communist party in america. They get less than 50,000 votes in urban areas like nyc, detroit, phili, la, chicago.

And there is also a Nazi party as well. What is your point.

EarthCitizen07

Govt and extreme wealth go hand in hand. Govt loves these rich folks cause they bribe like crazy and they always get away with it. Poor people dont have much dough to bribe with, they use their cash to buy food and put gas in their 20 year old car.

So again, Govt is the problem. It does love the rich, as it has it's hands out, ready for the bribe. Thanks for proving my point.

EarthCitizen07
To become wealthy, none. That is not the goal of either socialism or communism. The goal is to give everyone a job and a roof over their head. Plenty of independant people though, in that they can show up for work 2 hours late and still have a job. The boss, the government, is not a petty asshole like in capitalist countries.

So, basically everyone has the same stuff, no matter how hard they work, how how lazy they are.
Sounds fantastic. Since I want more out of life, I would be screwed, because after all, it isn't fair that I would have more. That is not independent, unless you are now redefining words.
So, working for the Govt has worked within the Communist Countries then, right??? Care to share with us here, what those places are?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


So basically to sum it up, life under your plan is

I would really love to see where this works in the world today.

macman

Did I state anything about it in America?????
Noooooo. No I did not.
How is it working in all the other places that have it currently??? Just wondering.
When did I say within this thread that communism was ruining the country?
Seems that you jumped with a "burn" that you have been saving up, that doesn't apply here.

Probably cause you are wrongly refering to liberalism as progressivism. What exactly is the difference between progressivism, liberalism, socialism and communism? If we cant agree on definitions I dont see how our discussion can be fruitful.

So again, Govt is the problem. It does love the rich, as it has it's hands out, ready for the bribe. Thanks for proving my point.

The point is "a government by the rich and for the rich". You are being taxed to pay off the national debt. The politicians are getting bribed to pass croney legislation like ACA for example.

EarthCitizen07

So, basically everyone has the same stuff, no matter how hard they work, how how lazy they are.
Sounds fantastic. Since I want more out of life, I would be screwed, because after all, it isn't fair that I would have more. That is not independent, unless you are now redefining words.
So, working for the Govt has worked within the Communist Countries then, right??? Care to share with us here, what those places are?

Socialism isnt perfect in practice, just perfect in theory. Still the workers get the benefit of doubt all the time unless they piss off the government and that happens sometimes.

I guess it depends on what you want from life. If you want fame, wealth, extravagance, power, etc then stick to croney capitalist nations like usa.

Dont get me wrong I am not a socialist lover, I am more of a theoritician. I have lived both in socialist countries and in capitalist countries and can compare somewhat.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Why are most americans intolerant of the left? Brainwashing! I have more tolerance for your right wing views than you and others have of my left leaning views. Tells the whole story.

EarthCitizen07


Probably cause you are wrongly refering to liberalism as progressivism. What exactly is the difference between progressivism, liberalism, socialism and communism? If we cant agree on definitions I dont see how our discussion can be fruitful.

I did? Please clarify this.
There are many differences between them. All push for more Govt control. The differences are mainly nuances revolving around exactly how much control the Govt has over the people and who reaps the benefits of success/

EarthCitizen07

The point is "a government by the rich and for the rich". You are being taxed to pay off the national debt. The politicians are getting bribed to pass croney legislation like ACA for example.

Thanks. Again proving that Govt itself is the issue.
If it wasn't for the corrupt Govt, we wouldn't be in the place we are.
If the bribery wasn't money, it would be power, control, land, people or what ever the "currency" of the day is. Salt maybe, water.

EarthCitizen07


Socialism isnt perfect in practice, just perfect in theory.

So, the intentions are the goal line, and not the real world application and results of. Still no examples of great places that have such structure?

EarthCitizen07
Still the workers get the benefit of doubt all the time unless they piss off the government and that happens sometimes.

Oh, so they answer not to a company, but to the Govt that also runs the Military, prints the money, taxes the people, creates/implements/enforces the laws. Yeah, definitely better not piss off the benevolent Govt.

EarthCitizen07
I guess it depends on what you want from life. If you want fame, wealth, extravagance, power, etc then stick to croney capitalist nations like usa.

Oh gee, thanks for the permission to live my life. I appreciate that. So, if I want to become wealthy, I better not live in your world. How very..........excepting and tolerant of you.

EarthCitizen07
Dont get me wrong I am not a socialist lover, I am more of a theoritician. I have lived both in socialist countries and in capitalist countries and can compare somewhat.

Nothing like not making your stance, to not define who you are and who you stand with.

EarthCitizen07
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Are you suggesting that I have not entertained such "theories"?

EarthCitizen07
Why are most americans intolerant of the left? Brainwashing! I have more tolerance for your right wing views than you and others have of my left leaning views. Tells the whole story.

How am I not tolerant?
Am I trying to stop you from living your life???
Am I trying to change what you do?
Have I instructed the IRS to target you?
Am I trying to infringe upon your rights, as created by the Const and BoR?

Nope.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


Apparently YOU don't understand what a monopoly is. Under that scenario, the competition can't DO ANYTHING because there IS NO COMPETITION. It's a monopoly...

reply to post by macman


So basically you admit you dont know the definitions and dont care to learn them either.

If you hated liberals that would be one thing, but you are on a mission to smear the entire left.

An "entire left" that never existed in america, except in the dellusional minds of the tea party.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

 

Apparently YOU don't understand what a monopoly is. Under that scenario, the competition can't DO ANYTHING because there IS NO COMPETITION. It's a monopoly...

I think the difference is between naturally forming monopolies where a company like microsoft manages to dominate the competition, and an artificial monopoly like the federal reserve where rich people from europe woke up one morning and decided to control the entire money supply, just because they could get away with it.

Just one example.

EarthCitizen07


So basically you admit you dont know the definitions and dont care to learn them either.

Oh please, educate me then.

EarthCitizen07
If you hated liberals that would be one thing, but you are on a mission to smear the entire left.

I hate liberals? When did I state that?

EarthCitizen07
An "entire left" that never existed in america, except in the dellusional minds of the tea party.

It has been around for decades. We are just seeing life with it implemented now.
Welcome to high unemployment, low wages, huge Govt and less freedoms.

macman

It has been around for decades.

Well I for one have not seen any progression, except maybe on some social issues. I have seen lots of regression.

We are just seeing life with it implemented now.
Welcome to high unemployment, low wages, huge Govt and less freedoms.

Yes the rich people are consolidating more money and power into their hands, and leaving people like you mesmerised in confusion.

Since you like the rich and have no problem with them, why complain about anything?

I wish someone would remove that disgusting bucket of poop pic...I'm losing my appetite.

EarthCitizen07


Well I for one have not seen any progression, except maybe on some social issues. I have seen lots of regression.

Oh, that is rich.
Your explanation is that a Progressive is for "progress". You better send your $1 to Hillary Clinton for using her coined statement.
That is all you got?

EarthCitizen07

Yes the rich people are consolidating more money and power into their hands, and leaving people like you mesmerised in confusion.

Confused you say? Mesmerized you pitch? Seems that I, and several others, have been stating this was coming. No confusion here.
Those with money see what is coming.....Big controlling Govt. No wonder companies are off shoring, how can they stay in business with crap think like what you pine for.

EarthCitizen07
Since you like the rich and have no problem with them, why complain about anything?

I am not blaming the rich, that would be you.
The blame rests with the Govt. As it is corrupt and accepts the brides to influence their Govt positions.