Say no to Obamacare, refuse to pay the penalty and get off scott free!!!

Well, seems to me it just part of the tax true-up that you owe the government each year (refund or not). If you do not pay your full tax owed, they will add interest and penalties which are extreme. The government will get the money you legally owe them. If you do not fraud the government they cannot jail you. If you lie, they can jail you.

Just think of Obamacare as increasing your tax liability. You will have to pay it or the penalties and interest keep accruing.

I would not recommend getting on the IRS collections list. That's just me.

Obamacare seems horrible in so many ways. The costs are astronomical. Perhaps on the poor benefit any more. The middle class is being pillaged.

Nothing in Obamacare ever addressed the high cost of medical care. Disaster in the making. IMO.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Isn't that the real game - finding the loopholes that make a difference in how much you can earn?

At the beginning of the game, you're just trying to make your way to the next part. Towards the middle of the game, you begin finding little ways around the areas that hamper your ability to move forward. Near the end of the game, you've got all the routes planned out, strategies mapped and are actively pursuing a means to an end: Retirement!

I believe they call this the game of life

Can you teach us how to do this OP?

abe froman
reply to post by Sportbominable

 

Unless they snag it from your tax refund it doesn't look like they can get it at all, there is legally no penalty for refusing the penalty.

All they need do is obtain a "court order" stating that you must comply...if you don't they can then jail you for how ever long it takes. Seriously man; they can jail you without trial, or any thing...just lock your a$$ up until you cough up the $$.

Magister
Then why are some people saying that they can take away your drivers license (?) the first year for not paying the penalty, and the second year put a lien on your house? And remember, this IS the Infernal Revenuers were talking about!

Because those people are stupid dear.

Page 131 of the ACA

H. R. 3590—131
employee, a group health plan or group health insurance coverage
offered by an employer to the employee which is—
‘‘(A) a governmental plan (within the meaning of section
2791(d)(8) of the Public Health Service Act), or
‘‘(B) any other plan or coverage offered in the small
or large group market within a State.
Such term shall include a grandfathered health plan described
in paragraph (1)(D) offered in a group market.
‘‘(3) EXCEPTED BENEFITS NOT TREATED AS MINIMUM ESSENTIAL
COVERAGE.—The term ‘minimum essential coverage’ shall
not include health insurance coverage which consists of coverage
of excepted benefits—
‘‘(A) described in paragraph (1) of subsection (c) of
section 2791 of the Public Health Service Act; or
‘‘(B) described in paragraph (2), (3), or (4) of such
subsection if the benefits are provided under a separate
policy, certificate, or contract of insurance.
‘‘(4) INDIVIDUALS RESIDING OUTSIDE UNITED STATES OR RESIDENTS
OF TERRITORIES.—Any applicable individual shall be
treated as having minimum essential coverage for any month—
‘‘(A) if such month occurs during any period described
in subparagraph (A) or (B) of section 911(d)(1) which is
applicable to the individual, or
‘‘(B) if such individual is a bona fide resident of any
possession of the United States (as determined under section
937(a)) for such month.
‘‘(5) INSURANCE-RELATED TERMS.—Any term used in this
section which is also used in title I of the Patient Protection
and Affordable Care Act shall have the same meaning as when
used in such title.
‘‘(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section
shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and
except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and
collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under
subchapter B of chapter 68.
‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary
shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.
(c) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of chapters for subtitle
D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting
after the item relating to chapter 47 the following new item:
‘‘CHAPTER 48—MAINTENANCE OF MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.’’.
(d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section
shall apply to taxable years ending after December 31, 2013.

Source

I set the area in question to bold. From this it does look like it will be the same case as income tax. It's not legal to enforce, but they will anyway na na na boo boo what ya gunna do?

It will be just like not paying any federal debt, they many not throw you in jail, but good luck ever buying a house or getting a loan where they check for federal debt before hand.


Also read "(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—" That means that they CAN take other measures to force you to legally pay by bringing civil suit or arresting you for something unrelated and including that federal debt into what ever pay off deal they offer you. So if you were to get a warrant for an expired inspection and get arrested for that, they could roll the ACA fees into any release plea for that minor charge and hold you indefinitely without trial under the NDAA for being a civil terrorist as owing money to the federal govt falls under the NDAA and is considered terrorism.

Not the most solid of ground to stand on.....

I can't find said info on the page 131 I'm looking at here.
www.dol.gov...

reply to post by vind21

Thanks, I'm looking at the right pdf now. Screw them, I'm will not comply!

reply to post by GoldenVoyager


You said it. Speaking as a person who is on the IRS collections list - you don't want to be in my shoes.

Every month, I'm sure to get that payment postmarked days before it's due. On top of that, I'm sure to get my quarterly payments made on time (I'm self employed) because I do not want a repeat of what they've done previously. Imagine getting a call from your wife asking why the bank account is empty - only to find out that the IRS emptied it. If you slip up on a monthly or quarterly payment - it might happen again.

Even after getting lawyers involved and the levy lifted, the fees charged by the bank for processing a levy request aren't paid by the IRS, they're paid by the account holder.

You do not want to F*** with the IRS. They will win.

LivioRazlo

MrWendal
I have not actually filed taxes in roughly 17 years now- even though I have been entitled to a full refund each and every year, and I have no intentions of ever filing.

How have you not filed taxes for so long? Are you self-employed or just choose not to file your taxes when the time comes?

It's easy, I file away my W-2's when they come in the mail, and I do not do my taxes or mail them in. I simply do not participate.

Again, I am entitled to a refund each year. I am not required to pay more. So what I am doing is not a crime in any way.

reply to post by MrWendal


I applaud you for your efforts. I always thought that it is legally required to file your taxes every year, or else the IRS could prosecute. I am currently waiting for an amended return for some school tax credit I forgot to file for the first time around, seems either the IRS knows I'm anti-government or they are purposely holding up my refund.

abe froman
reply to post by Sportbominable

 

Unless they snag it from your tax refund it doesn't look like they can get it at all, there is legally no penalty for refusing the penalty.

Make no mistake about it. They never had any intentions of passing a law with no teeth and leaving well enough alone. They will make any needed adjustments to see to it that people who don't obey their orders are put in a very uncomfortable position.

These people do not live by any rules. They do not have a track record of viewing explicit limitations on power as a legitimate hindrance to whatever they want to do at any given time and they certainly aren't going to start now.

This bill was some 2,000 odd pages when Obama rubber stamped it. That's more than enough legalese to conceal plenty of surprises. And it leaves miles of space for "interpretation" by the kind of people who can change a penalty into a tax in broad daylight.

www.rushlimbaugh.com... few links from a variety of sources

www.washingtonpost.com... this one seems to back up the OP assessment on how to dodge the fine

"In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section," Section 1501 of the Affordable Care Act reads, "Such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." If a penalty does not come out of a refund, it does not fully disappear. Instead, it gets carried over to next year's tax filings and held on the filer's account. The Internal Revenue Service is also allowed to charge interest on any unpaid tax penalty (More on that in the very thrilling Sec. 6601 of the Internal Revenue Service Code). The rate currently hovers around 3 percent. So the tax penalties accumulate, and the interest goes up and up. But even in an extreme example, where someone doesn't pay the health law's penalties for decades, the powers that the Internal Revenue Service has to collect the unpaid fines don't change. "The IRS remains very clearly limited in its ability to collect the penalty," Livingston says, "And the accumulation over time does not change those legal limitations."

so it might just work like OP says

www.forbes.com... even forbes has a few usefull loop hole ideas on the matter

finance.yahoo.com...

How exactly will the penalty be assessed? If you don’t have sufficient health coverage by the deadline, the “IRS will hold back the amount of the fee from any future tax refunds,” according to HealthCare.gov, the government’s marketplace website. But what if you don’t get a tax refund? Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh picked up on this subject on his show this week, telling listeners: “The only way that they can collect the penalty or the fine is by taking money from your refund. If you are not owed a refund, they cannot get money from you.” We asked Mark Luscombe, principal analyst at CCH Tax & Accounting North America, about that. Turns out Limbaugh is essentially right. If you don't get a refund next year, the “IRS could carry over the sum due and apply it against any refunds in future years. On a joint return, the penalty of one joint filer could be applied against the refund due to the other joint filer,” Luscombe says. “If you don’t pay it, all they can do is wait until they owe you some money and take that. Or probably just send you a letter every now and then reminding you that you owe money to the IRS,” says Timothy Jost, a professor at the Washington and Lee University School of Law and coauthor of the casebook “Health Law.” And by the way, once the IRS assesses the penalty, they’ve got 10 years to collect, says Bryan Camp, law professor at Texas Tech University.

so i guess if you do get a fine stall for 10 years to keep from paying it off as well? not sure how that would work but figured people might find it interesting

reply to post by LivioRazlo


Yeah no one can force you to file taxes when you are entitled to a refund.

Think of it this way, if I owed you money and to get repayment all you had to do was send me a request letter but failed to do so- are you wrong for not collecting your own money? Of course not.

Chances are the IRS is dragging their feet and taking their sweet time to get you money back. That is one of the things that can happen when you improperly file your taxes. I hope you get your money back on that tax credit, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

GoldenVoyager
The government will get the money you legally owe them.

Legally owe them? Hmmmm no. I've paid because I was seeking to minimize conflict and hassle. It's a chickens**t attitude.

I don't pay anything based on "legality". That's chiefly because this government cannot claim legitimacy or legality. I would remind you that this gangster government has murdered four Americans without charges or trail. They are murdering men, women and children wholesale in a number of countries. They are cooperating with Wall Street and the Federal Reserve in massive theft and fraud. They are trampling the Constitution at every turn.

The one thing this government can claim is the ability to send armed men to your door or the ability to steal your assets with the stroke of a pen. Hitler and Stalin could have easily claimed the same thing.