"How did it get to this point...Why didn't people fight back"

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posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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This comes from an interview of a Holocaust survivor and her daughter who live in Ft Worth. The daughter was telling her mom about the playground activities in 1960's where boys were raising their hand and saying 'heil Hitler'. This is when her mother first told her of the Holocaust. After that day she began to ask questions. The question and comment below speaks well of our current situation.



How did it get to the point where peoples’ rights were taken away? Why didn’t people fight back?

“She explained that it happened over time and it was a process,” Leslie said. “People thought they could live with certain inconveniences. They thought this would pass.”

ft worth star telegram

A process that took (and has been taking) years, decades in the making.

After years of conditioning to hate Jews, I wonder if they had a program such as "See a Jew, tell someone".

I tried to talk to my brother about the nsa...in one ear and out the other... "I'm not going to worry about that, I'm not doing anything wrong"

We are nearing the end of our process, I suspect. I really fear it is too late to do anything meaningful. Maybe Snowden has slowed it down some especially with the releases coming periodically it stays in the public eye. However, we all seem to be getting numb to it. New revelations here draw very few comments or outrage.

Who knows what the true agenda is? We can guess...so many possibilities... but we don't know.

Just my simple musings as I try to keep the sadness, anger, frustration and fear in check.




posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


Those are my thoughts. When did we start allowing the government to dictate our personal lives?

When Congress told us we could not assemble, to petition the government for a redress of grievances? LINK

When they told us we had to submit to a search of our private parts if we want to fly on a plane?

Was it when they told us we could not smoke in restaurants?

When they told store owners who they had to serve?

When they told us we had to wear a seatbelt? Or a helmet?

When they told us we could not take drugs without permission?

When they told us we could not drink alcohol?

Or was it when the US Federal Government told a farmer what he could or could not grow for his private use and the Supreme Court upheld the law.

The Commerce Clause: Route to Omnipotent Government



...After President Roosevelt threatened to pack the Court to dilute the influence of the uncooperative “nine old men,” a majority of the justices took to the most expansive definition of the commerce clause like a drunk to drink. The Court blessed the secretary of agriculture’s power to set minimum prices for milk sold intrastate . “The marketing of intrastate milk,” wrote the Court in the 1942 Wrightwood Dairy case, “which competes with that shipped interstate would tend seriously to break down price regulation of the latter.” Yes, so? What was the Court’s point? Only that nothing — especially not liberty — should be permitted to get in the way of the national government’s power to regulate the economy....

Enter Roscoe Filburn, an Ohio dairy and poultry farmer, who raised a small quantity of winter wheat — some to sell, some to feed his livestock, and some to consume. In 1940, under authority of the Agricultural Adjustment Act, the central government told Mr. Filburn that for the next year he would be limited to planting 11 acres of wheat and harvesting 20 bushels per acre. He harvested 12 acres over his allotment for consumption on his own property. When the government fined him, Mr. Filburn refused to pay.

Wickard v. Filburn got to the Supreme Court, and in 1942, the justices unanimously ruled against the farmer. The government claimed that if Mr. Filburn grew wheat for his own use, he would not be buying it — and that affected interstate commerce. It also argued that if the price of wheat rose, which is what the government wanted, Mr. Filburn might be tempted to sell his surplus wheat in the interstate market, thwarting the government’s objective. The Supreme Court bought it.

The Court’s opinion must be quoted to be believed:


[The wheat] supplies a need of the man who grew it which would otherwise be reflected by purchases in the open market. Home-grown wheat in this sense competes with wheat in commerce.


As Epstein commented, “Could anyone say with a straight face that the consumption of home-grown wheat is ‘commerce among the several states?’” ...

After Wickard , everything is mere detail.... Under this maximum commerce power, the government has been free to regulate nearly everything, including a restaurant owner’s bigotry. The Court has held that if Congress sees a connection to interstate commerce, it is not its role to second guess....


Or was it when the Supreme Court took away our rights to a trial by Jury and the right to the knowledge that a jury can judge both the case AND THE LAW. (Jury Nullification: What lawyers & judges won't tell you about juries)

The 6th and 11th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article 3 Section 2 give US citizens the right to a trial. As Joan Biskupic stated
"


“Anyone accused of a crime in this country is entitled to a jury trial.”

The Constitution may say so but, in fact, this is simply not the case — and becoming less so as politicians fiddle with legal definitions and sentencing standards in order specifically to reduce the number of persons entitled to a trial….

….As Thomas Jefferson put it to Tom Paine in a 1789 letter, “I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.” ….
prorev.com...


Here is how the politicians have gotten around the US Constitution to make sure citizens are denied their right to a trial:


The Seventh Amendment, passed by the First Congress without debate, cured the omission by declaring that the right to a jury trial shall be preserved in common-law cases… The Supreme Court has, however, arrived at a more limited interpretation. It applies the amendment’s guarantee to the kinds of cases that “existed under the English common law when the amendment was adopted,” …

The right to trial by jury is not constitutionally guaranteed in certain classes of civil cases that are concededly “suits at common law,” particularly when “public” or governmental rights are at issue and if one cannot find eighteenth-century precedent for jury participation in those cases. Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Commission (1977). Thus, Congress can lodge personal and property claims against the United States in non-Article III courts with no jury component. In addition, where practice as it existed in 1791 “provides no clear answer,” the rule is that “


This post was part of a special Halloween Homage to Orson Wells.
Jumping out from behind the server and shouting BOO!
nly those incidents which are regarded as fundamental, as inherent in and of the essence of the system of trial by jury, are placed beyond the reach of the legislature.” Markman v. Westview Instruments (1996). In those situations, too, the Seventh Amendment does not restrain congressional choice.

In contrast to the near-universal support for the civil jury trial in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, modern jurists consider civil jury trial neither “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty,” Palko v. State of Connecticut (1937), nor "fundamental to the American scheme of justice," Duncan v. Louisiana (1968).
www.heritage.org...#!/amendments/7/essays/159/right-to-jury-in-civil-cases



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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Im curious how well developed MKultra was during WW2...



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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As long as there is McDonalds to eat, and sports and drama on TV, the people are contained.

Same old story, same old tactics. Bread and circus to keep the slaves pacified, and the slaves at most grumble and moan.

And someone to hate, is a new one (but could be considered a facet of drama)... always keep the slaves attention focused off the masters, at someone else to direct any possible ire.

So to the question "How did it get to this point": its really the logical result of human nature. Generally speaking, humans are as tameable or even more so in some cases, than any other animal. Tame them, and keep them fed and entertained, and you have little to worry about. And just like any tamed animal, you only have to really worry about a critical mass of them turning against you if their stomachs are empty.

Revolt on principle is very rare.

edit on 10/21/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by CaticusMaximus
 


And the double whammy in my estimation is you have them all in debt! They owe big time, not so inclined to rock the boat if the mortgage, car loan and kids college degree are at stake!



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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I read a book back in the 70s sometime called "They Thought They Were Free" The Germans 1933-1945 by Milton Mayer. It was published in 1955. Mayer went to Germany right after the war and interviewed German people, not the Nazis and asked them just how Germany had gotten the way it did.

Unlike most historical books, this book sheds light on the minds of the German people of that period. You might find it interesting. There may even be free pdf versions of it on line.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:15 PM
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CaticusMaximus
As long as there is McDonalds to eat, and sports and drama on TV, the people are contained.

Same old story, same old tactics. Bread and circus to keep the slaves pacified, and the slaves at most grumble and moan.

And someone to hate, is a new one (but could be considered a facet of drama)... always keep the slaves attention focused off the masters, at someone else to direct any possible ire.

So to the question "How did it get to this point": its really the logical result of human nature. Generally speaking, humans are as tameable or even more so in some cases, than any other animal. Tame them, and keep them fed and entertained, and you have little to worry about. And just like any tamed animal, you only have to really worry about a critical mass of them turning against you if their stomachs are empty.

Revolt on principle is very rare.

edit on 10/21/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


Truly we are doomed to repeat and all...

Oldest tactics sometimes are the best, Give people Entertainment and Food, when they start to question give them an enemy that threatens that first two.

Rinse repeat into tyranny and the collapse of one of the greatest experiments in human history.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Thank you for the examples (albeit, in the scope of our history, just a few) where, we, the uniformed and complacent citizens failed to speak up. I count myself, my generation among the most complacent.

Such a little thing, a seat belt for safety but that is how it starts. Now large drinks are outlawed and we elect people who make these ordinances. Any protest is blown off and soon forgotten. In fact, they count on it.

Today they are waiting for Benghazi, IRS, Obamacare, NSA, Monsanto, etc, etc, to blow over.

I recall Perry saying shorten the amount of months Congress serves. It would be less time to make laws. We can't do that or the Admistration (both sides) would run amoke.

The little things above are just conditioning. 9/11 was the big one. We have an exclusive group controlling our government with information on everyone who could possibly be a threat to them.

I saw this today...a petition to support an Orwellian, Nazi police state. So many people either have no clue or just don't listen to what is being said.

edit on 21-10-2013 by liveandlearn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


To remind people how easy it is to manipulate minds (especially the minds of children) see this famous experiment by Jane Elliot (1960s).




It seems to always feel good if one group is better (not under suspicion) thereby treating another group (of citizens) poorly (ie: all Arab-looking folk after 9/11) and now that it is 'white dudes' being harassed by/spied on by the NSA (soon, other citizens) it ain't so fun, is it. Until we progress and become truly civilized, there will ALWAYS be an 'us vs. them' mentality, free country or not.
edit on 21-10-2013 by dianashay because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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If you think your losing rights now you need to take a real look at our nations history without the rose colors glasses. Lets face it rights were really only for wealthy white males at out founding. We have more rights and protections for those rights now more then ever. And lest you think spying on our own citizens and detaining them is something new our revolution had such lovely things like the Committe for Detecting and Defeating Conspracies and a Secret Committee for domestic intelligence. That is a habit that started at our founding has been going on non stop since. Of course for most our history it would have been un Amrican to complain about such a thing. At least now we care.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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CaticusMaximus
As long as there is McDonalds to eat, and sports and drama on TV, the people are contained.

Same old story, same old tactics. Bread and circus to keep the slaves pacified, and the slaves at most grumble and moan.

And someone to hate, is a new one (but could be considered a facet of drama)... always keep the slaves attention focused off the masters, at someone else to direct any possible ire.

So to the question "How did it get to this point": its really the logical result of human nature. Generally speaking, humans are as tameable or even more so in some cases, than any other animal. Tame them, and keep them fed and entertained, and you have little to worry about. And just like any tamed animal, you only have to really worry about a critical mass of them turning against you if their stomachs are empty.

Revolt on principle is very rare.



"...And someone to hate, is a new one" Well no, remember the Gladiators and the Christians and the Lions....

Huimans are social animals. That means most are willing to follow a leader while perhaps one in a hundred IS a leader. Kill the leader and the rest will blindly follow.

Actually the Elite have improved on that with 'Astroturfing' This catches the young before they have a chance to develop into leaders and turns them into 'Useful Idiots'

The ‘Innocents' Clubs’


...During the 1920's and most of the 1930's Münzenberg played a leading role in the Comintern, Lenin's front for world-wide co-ordination of the left under Russian control. Under Münzenberg's direction, hundreds of groups, committees and publications cynically used and manipulated the devout radicals of the West....Most of this army of workers in what Münzenberg called 'Innocents' Clubs' had no idea they were working for Stalin. They were led to believe that they were advancing the cause of a sort of socialist humanism. The descendents of the 'Innocents' Clubs' are still hard at work in our universities and colleges. Every year a new cohort of impressionable students join groups like the Anti-Nazi League believing them to be benign opponents of oppression...”


More recently Maurice Strong's early work with YMCA international...


...may have been the genesis of Strong's realization that NGOs (non-government organizations) provide an excellent way to use NGOs to couple the money from philanthropists and business with the objectives of government. link

Strong was Chair of the UN's First Earth Summit in 1972 and Chair of Kyoto. He was Secretary-General of the U.N. Conference on the Human Environment,and was Co-founder of the WWF. He was part of the UN's Commission on Global Governance, Senior Advisor to the UN and the World Bank and Trustee of the Rockefeller Foundation. He is the one who invited a small group from Canada called Greenpeace to the UN's First Earth Summit and then told them to go home and raise He!!.


In 1954 Lyndon B Johnson’s amendment changed the IRS code, prohibiting tax-exempt entities and churches from endorsing or opposing political candidates. Although this has largely stopped the influence of churches it has no effect on NGOs. The prominence of NGOs and the foundations of today’s environment movement are traceable to the 1972 First Earth Summit.


...given his ability to get things done, the consistency of his support for a world managed by bureaucrats is alarming. As Elaine Dewar wrote in Toronto's Saturday Night magazine: as an advisor to the Rockefeller Foundation and the World Wildlife Fund. Above all, he served on the Commission on Global Governance -- which, as we shall see, plays a crucial part in the international power grab.  The Commission on Global Governance (CGG), was established in 1992, after Rio, at the suggestion of Willy Brandt, former West German chancellor and head of the Socialist International. In 1991, the Club of Rome (of which Strong is, of course, a member) issued a report called The First Global Revolution, which asserted that current problems "are essentially global and cannot be solved through individual country initiatives.

"Very few of even the larger international NGOs are operationally democratic, in the sense that members elect officers or direct policy on particular issues," notes Peter Spiro. "Arguably it is more often money than membership that determines influence, and money more often represents the support of centralized elites, such as major foundations, than of the grass roots." The CGG has benefited substantially from the largesse of the MacArthur, Carnegie, and Ford Foundations... www.afn.org...


And just to make sure the wool is pulled over the Sheeple's eyes.

Ignoring Elites, Historians Are Missing a Major Factor in Politics and History


... Over the last quarter-century, historians have by and large ceased writing about the role of ruling elites in the country's evolution. Or if they have taken up the subject, they have done so to argue against its salience for grasping the essentials of American political history. Yet there is something peculiar about this recent intellectual aversion, even if we accept as true the beliefs that democracy, social mobility, and economic dynamism have long inhibited the congealing of a ruling stratum. This aversion has coincided, after all, with one of the largest and fastest-growing disparities in the division of income and wealth in American history....Neglecting the powerful had not been characteristic of historical work before World War II. ”



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by MrSpad
 





...That is a habit that started at our founding has been going on non stop since. Of course for most our history it would have been un Amrican to complain about such a thing. At least now we care.


NO, now we have the internet and find we are not alone. Now we have the internet and masses of information at our fingertips. Now we have the internet and viewpoints from around the world and not just the propaganda served up by the Bankster/Elitist owned papers.

Now we have CHEAP energy and technology as our servant so we have the leisure to actually checkout what our politicians are up to. (Why the heck do you think the UN and WTO are targeting CO2 as the latest boogyman?)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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The worst thing about all of this to me, is that it very clearly illustrates how bone headed, arrogant, pridefull, bullying, vengeful, murderous, dishonest, cheating, greedy, and just downright rotten people can be in societies.

Mankind progresses backwards, and we are really good at it!!!
edit on 21-10-2013 by alienreality because: fix



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


When we said its okay to control me because it is just so much easier to go along with the program.

Just let me keep my big house, my new car, my internet, TV and my I phone.

Just allow me to keep believing that I am special and nothing is going to happen to me. If something does happen to me it is a mistake, and as long as I drop my pants to the nice officer and don't make too much noise when they take turns with their cavity search, everything will be just fine.

Since I have nothing to hide, they are free to spy, rape, steal; the government is by friend. The government only has my best interest at heart and they will always be there to help me.

Didn't you get the memo? It must still be in the mail. Things have been a little backed up since they had to shut the government down for a little while. Some people just make it hard for everybody.

We just need to let the government keep taking care of us and keep taking our memory pills. After all, you don't want to remember all the bad things that happened that our government has worked so hard to protect us from.

If some memories like, capital guards killing someone or something called freedoms, double up on your memory pills. You will be back to sleep in no time.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn
 





Just let me keep my big house, my new car, my internet, TV and my I phone.


Hey, sounds like you know my brother.

Tried to talk to him about the economy and the possibilities of economic failure. His reply " You go ahead and prepare and if something happens, we'll come live with you...followed by a laugh.

The real question is, since it has gotten this far, what can we do? Start an insurrection? Just be vocal by word or print? Lie low to avoid drawing attention to yourself because it is gonna hit the fan anyway?

We are great at discussing this here but is that as far as it goes?



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


After extensive and often tiring observation and study....well I only see a couple of honest options for this.

The "elite" are planning to try to take over once and for all.

Or our alien creators are coming back to reset us, because we are not "done cooking yet" to serve them properly as slaves....I mean "servants".

I am leaning towards a reset though, look at ancient civilizations, and their levels of technology, the pyramids cannot be built today with our "modern" tech, but they did it, some thousands of years ago..... every civilization on earth has their written history stating the "sky Gods" came down and basically engineered us, taught us to act as intelligent beings and not animals, and almost always in almost all histories for the purposes of being a labor force for one end or another.

We are being studied, and we are about to be "reset", I only wander if any of our monuments to our "greatness" will make it for a few thousand years until our "altered" descendants see them and argue if it was us, or dismiss any notions of some other outside influence in the world at large.


Just one of my many musings......please ignore if you believe cave men with rocks and sticks are capable of more than us, or you believe those in power wouldn't sacrifice us all and ours families to ensure theirs gets to live on.
edit on 21-10-2013 by oblvion because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


" We are great at discussing this here but is that as far as it goes?"

Amen!

Fastest keyboard in the southwest; just don't ask us to get up an "do" something.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by oblvion
 


Guess what will survive "The Georgian Guide Stones" , so according to your theory and I am not adverse to it , they have even planned the next "Commandments" for the new crop or harvestable minions.

NOTE to self:- get slabs of rock and let the poor beggar's know what they are in for and really create the next conflicting religious ideology. Hey they will need at least two to play off against each other.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


"We are great at discussing this here but is that as far as it goes?" No, it goes beyond discussing it here. Talk to strangers. It's a slow process for an entire nation to realize that it's people are getting f*cked in the ass, by a small group who have the will to do and desire to do horrible things. It's getting another Obama/Bush type in the white house and people will really wake up and completely revolt people are starting to talk about the bullsh!t going on in DC. My only question is, Is it good enough? Can the american people wake up before the sh!t hits the fan completely? Some how i think it'll be a bit too late for that.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Pinkorchid
 


The georgia guidestones lemme guess the next moses picks them up after he free's another of the so called "gods chosen people" and reads them to them. Man the elite have a one track mind "repeating. hidtorical events after another great culling" no wonder they're completely f*cked in the head. to busy bangin their siblings to care about how actually make some progress in the universe.





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