Why does faith have to come in good or evil?

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posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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If God is real, why did He give Evil the power over the people of the earth? Why is it that the good guys didn’t get the control power over earth? I am feeling so let down by TPTB, and I’m talking about the real POWER. Why did bad win over evil? It doesn’t make sense that greed is always the winner. That’s why people are murdered, that’s why the governments take priority. The people have not been able to stop it. I don't understand why the bad seems to overpower the good. What does it benefit that we benefit the good in the afterlife? I believe that the bible states we shouldn't benefit our good deeds in the here and now, that we should benefit from them in the afterlife. Does that mean we benefit the evil of our deeds in the afterlife? What if we benefit from them now? Why are there double standards? The fact that good vs bad = bad is a terrible tragedy. Why did Satan win over Eve and Adam? Why did Cain win over Able? Why does the evil seem to win over good? Why did the evil Angels win over God and the earth? There is something wrong with the whole picture.




posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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Well I would ask which god? but since this is ATS, its Juedo-christian of course.

So Ill give you a Judeo Christian theological view point as simple as I can.

Using free will, Man Chose Knowledge instead of wisdom, the result is the world we see now.

God letting us choose and wanting us to do well are two direct oppositional forces, Much like an Adult who doesn't want to feed his child only candy.

Sure the kid thinks the candy is what they want, but they don't want the stomach pain and obesity to follow.

God lets us create the world we live in, and than gives us an out just in case.

Much like the parent in the above, waiting by the toilet with medicine to sooth the pain.

In this crude analogy the medicine is Christ, Candy evil, parent god.

Simplest way I can break down Judeo Christian Beliefs.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by StoutBroux
 


I'm not religious. I believe our actions directly influence the here and now.

I always wondered why people would want to believe that good actions become palpable in an afterlife yet go punished in this reality.

The reason why TPTB will always win is because people always look to the top for change, forgetting that if you knock off the top of a pyramid it does little to change the base. The base is the lowest person in a society, from there is where all change starts. As long as human beings continue to wait on superman, Jesus, or other nonsense they will fail to change the base of society. To change the way children are raised and the way adults are treated is when the top of the pyramid will crumble.

If people accept government as an abusive father with a belt ready to whip them on a whim , nothing will change. It will change when people realize that it is our own desire for control that all evil comes from. The desire for control allows us to be controlled, it is the fundamental basis for all things evil. If we refuse to accept government, instead accepting that people have a 100% right to control their own bodies and their own unit of human capital, the world will cease to have rulers.

Control is the root of all evil in the world.

edit on 21-10-2013 by OrphanApology because: d



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by StoutBroux
 


I always go back to this simple quote from Poe.

"V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be; thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven."

If you put this in perspective, it makes sense. We are INSIDE an image created by God. We are THE image of God. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is a cycle of time only and "You must be born again." You are a child of God being raised in a created environment. Your perception of good and evil is just that. It is a reflecting point for future incarnations into other robes (bodies) and crowns (minds). You rise or fall by the baptism you experience in this water. Dew rises and is distilled. It returns to the ocean from which it comes. Go back to Genesis 1:27

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

INSIDE an image (hologram of sorts). You are both male and female (East / West; Yin / Yang). Two become one new thing. Your duality here becomes your new robe and crown later.

Examine these words:

AMeN is AMN in Hebrew. It means true.

AMN in Greek/Latin is Lamb
AMNi is river of life (Baptism in the Jordan)
AMNio is the bowl catching the sacrifice of the lamb in ancient Roman culture
AMNion is the sac covering the baby in the womb
AMNiotic fluid is the water of the womb
AMNesia is you forgetting your past
AMNesty is God forgetting (Both Amnesia and Amnesty are from ONE root word meaning to forget)
dAMNation is when God remembers

In all cases, you are the LAMB. Christ is the lamb of God (God is HIS Shepherd) and he is the Shepherd to us (Our Good Shepherd). When we take on His character (Giving), we are then shepherded by the Good Shepherd (Christ). Ultimately, the Son of God is the one being raised. See my thread on the Son of God for Dummies.

What does a shepherd do? They sheer your wool season after season (you must be born again). They then wash the wool white and make thread. That thread then gets woven into a new robe. Rising to new life is being baptized again into this world. It's a process of developing wool. What does wool do? It protects you in the wilderness and provides a robe for you later. We are also promised a crown (New Mind) from the process.

You are asking why it's so difficult? As POE says, "V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be; thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven." MESMERIC REVELATION

Do you get it now? This life is a reflecting point so you can experience bliss later. To never know pain is to not value bliss. God is good, even if your upbringing is less than what you desire.

edit on 21-10-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain.


Haven't spent much time with children have you? It's adults that torture philosophy. Kids wouldn't waste their time.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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StoutBroux

If God is real, why did He give Evil the power over the people of the earth? Why is it that the good guys didn’t get the control power over earth? I am feeling so let down by TPTB, and I’m talking about the real POWER. Why did bad win over evil? It doesn’t make sense that greed is always the winner. That’s why people are murdered, that’s why the governments take priority. The people have not been able to stop it. I don't understand why the bad seems to overpower the good. What does it benefit that we benefit the good in the afterlife? I believe that the bible states we shouldn't benefit our good deeds in the here and now, that we should benefit from them in the afterlife. Does that mean we benefit the evil of our deeds in the afterlife? What if we benefit from them now? Why are there double standards? The fact that good vs bad = bad is a terrible tragedy. Why did Satan win over Eve and Adam? Why did Cain win over Able? Why does the evil seem to win over good? Why did the evil Angels win over God and the earth? There is something wrong with the whole picture.


Where did you get all this stuff^^^^?

He didn't give evil the power over the people.

Bad hasn't won anything.

Oh... I see.. the Bible. The Bible is more than meets the eye and what your preacher tells you my friend. Do some soul searching. It works.

The Bible for one is filled with stories. Its stories are there to help you see his-story. History of man can be seen as an experience and experiences of all kinds. It's life on Earth.

As far as the whole picture of the never ending creation story I advise you to take a look at the whole picture/creation.

Learn as much as you can.

Start with Light and once you understand that then study energy.

The Universe is made of this above^^^^. Connecting with "God" is more than understanding one faith or one book.

Do you really think God endorses one religion over another or one man over another?



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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InverseLookingGlass



A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain.


Haven't spent much time with children have you? It's adults that torture philosophy. Kids wouldn't waste their time.


So simplistic world views and narratives are the best?



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





If you put this in perspective, it makes sense. We are INSIDE an image created by God. We are THE image of God. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is a cycle of time only and "You must be born again." You are a child of God being raised in a created environment. Your perception of good and evil is just that. It is a reflecting point for future incarnations into other robes (bodies) and crowns (minds). You rise or fall by the baptism you experience in this water. Dew rises and is distilled. It returns to the ocean from which it comes. Go back to Genesis 1:27


Much respect to you as always my friend.

Im really glad to see you coming out of your comfort zone to truly explain specifically what it is to be born again and throwing energy in the mix. It's needed imo to help the reader truly make a connection.

It just made me think that maybe the reflecting point is where IT's at.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


Right you are. God is Love (1 John 4). Love keeps no record of wrongs (1 Cor. 13). Grace and Mercy are free. God does, however, keep a record of our rights. To benefit from God's love, we must be that love ourselves. This is the basis for our progress to new gifts, talents and responsibility as the fruit of our own walk in the wilderness. If we desire a new robe that we can be proud of, it seems logical that our works contribute. We could make many assumptions about people using the knowledge of what it means to be born again. I have always refrained from this type of judgement. We simply don't know why people come into this world the way they do. My hunch is that God knows and that is good enough for me. I assume that He works for the good one life at a time from a plan. This type of thinking requires a paradigm shift to the broader picture of life after death.

There is another way to look at this. What if the new Robe is not ours, but that of the Son of God? If each of us is an expression of the body of Christ, then there truly is only one soul living forever. This takes the individuality out of our own person and gives a great deal of meaning to how the loaf of bread is sliced. By this view, each of us are not unique individuals, but a part of the only soul that exists. I do not take this view. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is a type of firstfruit and we all know that trees bear multiple fruit. We are each part of the same tree, yet unique to the fruit we also bear. The fruit holds the seeds for the next generation. If we do not bear fruit, no seeds. This is the pattern in nature. Two become one with the hope that the curse of entropy ends at some point. No more rotten fruit. We arrive at our final robe of glory. Seeds we generate along the way move forward on new ground we also plow. Not only are we the gardener, but we are also the ones producing the seed for the next harvest. We are not salvaged because of works, but the works are the necessity for the next step. Faith without the work is soil not plowed.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by StoutBroux
 



Why does the evil seem to win over good?

Seems that way. We are here in the flesh but a short time to endure it's sufferings. I look to His example of endurance with eternal Reward for righteousness- first by faith (with obedience that naturally produces good works via the Holy Spirit in righteousness within the genuine faithful).

Hebrews 12:2
Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
edit on 21-10-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:13 PM
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ok we have this period of a superior being whos son walked the earth?well where was he for the millions of years before and where has he been since?seriously it makes no sense,u can,t have a god putting his so called son on earth to sacrifice his life for ours when that so called sacrifice changed nothing,we,r still doing exact same today as we were probably back then.im guessing in thousands of years if earth is still around then mother teresa will probably be classed as the daughter of this god that there is no evidence of.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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You see the battle between good and evil as two fists trying to overpower the other, this idealism is untrue. In the Islamic faith God or Allah is the power above all. The Devil or Shayton is nothing more than a tool to weave out the good from the bad. In similarity, if you were to imagine a real hard headed teacher who tests people to the point where they would have to make a real effort just to pass, and then ask why he/she would make such a difficult test if half the class is going to fail every time. Well in this fashion the teacher can weave out those who don't really give a crap to others who will give it their best to pass. Effort is in your actions, your words, and your behavior. The teachings given to us through the Quran is the study guide. those who don't give a crap will end up becoming over powered by evil, while those who are guided will never be touched by evil. However sin is in us all and we shall sin as humans. God loves those who are humiliated sinners. Allah will test us all in one way or another. Follow your heart and you will fear no evil nor will you live in regret.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


While all that you said I am in agreement with, I still do not understand WHY "God" would keep a record of good works. I understand why we are to do so.. it is the "right" thing to do and it's a necessary step/steps to evolve, no doubt, but WHY would God worry with keeping a record. It's our free will that dictates our reality.

Hope that makes sense to you.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by StoutBroux
 


Short answer...Who says it does?

Å99



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


I only say this because the Bible states carrots and sticks as a hidden way to the truth. While the law restricts us now, faith sets us free indeed. This is the ultimate truth in free will. It's not free yet. The other side of this is how God accomplished this apart from duplicity. Here is how I see duplicity:

If we desire good, but only for the reward, then we are of a double mind. We are really after the reward. If the reward was taken away, would we still seek good. When planning our upbringing as children, how has God accomplished this free from duplicity, yet still handing our reward for good work?

If we desire good, but only to avoid punishment, then we are again of a double mind. The same questions and answer apply. We are really doing it to avoid pain. Again, how has God accomplished punishment, yet avoided the creation of duplicity? The key is found in Galatians 3.

Galatians 3

3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

---Here, where does the credit come from? Works or faith?

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

---The key to removing the need for duplicity is faith in God. Faith is trust, but it is also our trustworthiness back to God. It's a mutual respect and deference. When we are not faithful, God is. Can we be faithful fully? No. God can be faithful. Not because he gets anything out of it or will suffer loss if he fails. God cannot fail. He is assured and has faith in the outcome.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

---The curse is where we are now. That curse is the law. We suffer automatically, but we also benefit automatically. When we find the true answer to this, we remove the need for carrots and sticks. God never needs to lift a finger to make it happen and we can only blame our own duplicity for missing the point. What is the point?

Read v. 15-22 for examples he gives, then read this:

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We cannot be justified by duplicity from the law. We must be justified when we come to the correct conclusion about life. LOVE!

Good is its own reward. Everyone learns this from the law when they remove the double mindedness. The hidden mystery and truth of the entire thing resides in the true end result for EVERYONE! All nations. Sadly, many will end this reality still asking, "What's in it for me." Instead, the answer is this: don't make the 'self' the idol. Instead, focus on the good that can come for others. Once this is realized, the law is nullified and we are free.



edit on 21-10-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


Also, from Gal 3, read this:

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

A promise is a carrot. It is the good that comes, but that good must be given. To be given, it cannot be earned. What is life? Life is the good of living. It is vitality and endurance, running from chaos and embracing unity and lasting value. Can duplicity engage true life? No. God's word locked up everything under the control of sin (duplicity). It must be given to those who believe (Trust / Faithful). Believe in what? Not Christ. It is what Christ preached. The gospel, which is the truth of life, and Christ IS the life. LOVE. Faith is the assurance that reward is not needed. Love and good are their own rewards. They create surplus and can never take for self. Sin and death are the result of the law, which is the governor (Carrots and Sticks). To learn the truth, the law was a guardian. Love sets us free from the need for a master. When we love others, there is no master required. Christ is LORD because Christ is giving and love as a representation of God's will. Follow the will and find the life eternal.



edit on 21-10-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Well, it seems like all you have explained is learning to love unconditionally, no matter what. Unconditional love is mostly expressed with our children. I understand we are the children growing up in the wilderness which is Earth.

Faith is knowing ...

The outcome is the same IF Thy will is already done. Faith/Knowing is taking out the " IF " in the last sentence.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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MamaJ
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Well, it seems like all you have explained is learning to love unconditionally, no matter what. Unconditional love is mostly expressed with our children. I understand we are the children growing up in the wilderness which is Earth.

Faith is knowing ...

The outcome is the same IF Thy will is already done. Faith/Knowing is taking out the " IF " in the last sentence.



You have it right. Like raising a family. We restrict the self-will of the child until they have the capacity to do it themselves. Until then, we rule the roost, yet found that restriction on love. What is the nature of God and giving? Do we need to act to receive good? No. God is willing to give all when we ask. Do we need to fear his punishments if we follow his guidelines? Not at all. He is not a hypocrite. He means what he says and says what he means. Like a true Father, his ability to see beyond our own limitations is unlimited. Faith is trusting in His authority. Once we do, love covers a multitude of sin. Freedom comes when God knows our hearts agree with truth. Until then, we test every crack and crevice of the territory until we have burned our fingers on the stove and know not to touch. Lessons learned.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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Simple:

You

Have

the

POWER

of

Freewill.

Choose your destiny, but be ready to be judged when the truth is revealed (truth about who you are and what you have done).



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by StoutBroux
 


People will always need something or someone to fear and hate. Thats how people stick together they must hate the same thing and share the same fear or they will soon find themselves fighting over insanely irrelevent topics. Thats why the divide and conquer technique works so well it uses your fear and mistrust.





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