Originally posted by MrNice
Don’t want to pray too bad, the rest of happen to believe that a strong morale influence is necessary for proper guidance of our political leaders. By removing religion from our public venues you are slowly releasing the bonds that holds our government in check.

No logic whatsoever in this statement. For example, how does prayer in school have anything to do with keeping "the bonds of our government in check".

You people act like liberals hate the Christian religion, you fail to see why keeping our government and religion (not just Christianity!) separate is important for everyone in this country.

The whole "must be Christians to have morals" mindset is worrisome. I can't believe people think that you must be religious to obtain morals. The two don't go together...it's called having respect for mankind. I was never raised to go to church...but somehow I have not turned into a mass murderer or participated in mass sex orgies. I don't do drugs, I've never even been arrested... OOOOoooooh! All this without the help of Jesus, It's amazing isn't it?

To be quite frank, people who need religion to be poured down their throats so they don't participate in some immoral atrocity scare me.

[edit on 11/16/2004 by Lecky]

Originally posted by Lecky
I've never even been arrested

try it. it kicks ass. Especially if its because you just called a cop a 'fascist pig'

Originally posted by Bleys
You bring up something I've been curious about. I've testified in court several times and never been asked to swear on a bible - it was always something like "do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give...yada yada yada." Has anyone actually ever been asked to swear on a bible?

Yes. There are others too. Personally I believe religion is a faith and politics is a way to map a society and law is a way to enforce and uphold that map.
Why not base America's law and politics on the Muslim or Hindu doctrine? You may say well this is a Christian country. Ok I agree, so why exclude all others. More people go to DIY stores in the UK than go to church on a Sunday. Yet we have a relatively peaceful and law abiding society. Yes there is crime. Sure there is a decline in respect in general, but is this due to the decline in practising religious population? I think not.
Be free of Religion from politics because this is where all empires have fallen.

Political liberalism refers to the respective political traditions of the liberal parties around the world. The same phrase is also used to refer to the later political philosophy of John Rawls.
Liberal traditions vary but are usually a blend of aspects of social democracy, though of a moderate reformist kind as opposed to revolutionary socialism, and selected aspects of classical liberalism, especially an attachment to a sphere of individual liberties, though without any strong principle in circumscribing government intervention. Liberals usually think of themselves as progressive rather than conservative, and as moderate and reformist rather than radical or revolutionary. They will defend a democratic constitution that guarantees civil rights, as opposed to monarchies, aristocracies, or otherwise non-democratic systems.


Values, religion.., have nothing to do with liberalism, they are personal belives, that should not be expresed, or imposed, throught politics, and cept out of the running of a country.

[edit on 18-11-2004 by Pavel]

[edit on 18-11-2004 by Pavel]

The "Liberal vs. Conservative" continuum no longer exists. Let me tell you why, historically.

Before the USSR broke up, Communists met with Reagan's guys and with the Pope, and they decided to change some of the words in ordinary talk so that there would no longer be any differences between us.

My aunt Peg the Communist left the Communist Party and joined the Republican Party at that time. I was flabbergasted.

But no. Big Money in this nation is always Republican. And so it was easy to build a MONOLITHIC NATIONAL STRUCTURE using Republican money that operates out of the same value system as the USSR [given a few creative terrorist events] while at the same time, proffering a version of Christianity as its source of inspiration.

So, all the radical Leftists went to work for the Republicans. The Project for a New American Century comes out of that cabal of former Leftists-Now-Called-Conservatives. They want to build an American Empire out of the ashes of the moribund Soviet empire/state.

And so, all the labels became obsolete back in the 80s, except that the Media were bought out by these guys, and so none of the electorates was informed of the change.

Newcasters are >STILL< talking about Republican versus Democrat and Conservative versus Liberal in pre-1980 terms--which are wholly false.

Anybody who speaks about what Liberals are doing simply doesn't know what happened when the far-Left radicals--"Liberals"--joined with the far-Right fascists and began the process of de-Democratizing this nation.

Fascists have a rule for everything, every breath you take. And now that role is being played out by the ReTHUGlican Party. Many of its members--probably MOST--have no idea that their leadership was taken over by the Communists in the 1980's.

And that's Ignorance for you--Ignorance spawned and cultivated by Media obfuscations [They leave OUT most of the REAL news.]

Originally posted by bushfriend
While at a pro bush rally I knew I was surrounded by people who generally agreed with my morale values. I knew these people were pro life, believed in god, loved America, believed all nations and people deserved freedom, and finally supported our troops. I thought if the liberals generally disagree with the conservatives moral compass what do they believe?. They support the killing of children in there mothers womb, they have on many occasions attempted to rid god from the publics view, they opposed liberating the people of Kuwait and Iraq, and are quick to call our brave troops who would die for our nation war criminals.

I'm not american, but i'm total and complete LIBERAL!!!!!!!!!!!! All the way!
I don't like religion, I'm pro abortion, pro gays...(.I know girl friends who had abortions and gay couples)
I'm a young intelligent woman, I like good wine, good food, I like to smile and have fun ans enjoy life, I love everybody, I'm pro-freedom and I just wanna say "live and let others live too" I'm totally against any kind of violence, I'm pro-peace, I like love, friendly people, I live by the hour and I practice spirituality and total unconditional love for everybody in every country in planet earth. I respect the planet, I'M against the power of money and most of all, I don't mind what people do as long as nobody is hurt!
I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!!!! politics is plenty of old guys who don't like the youngs like me

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
love

what values do liberals have?

- Golf, strangling animals and masturbating.

Oooooh, I know, I know. That won't go down too well.

Golf isn't too popular around these parts.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

what values do liberals have?

- Golf, strangling animals and masturbating.

Oooooh, I know, I know. That won't go down too well.

Golf isn't too popular around these parts.

If the animal in question is a chicken, wouldn't 2 and 3 be the same thing.

Would you recognise an old Monty Python line then Intrepid?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Would you recognise an old Monty Python line then Intrepid?

You know it.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Yep, I fell into the same trap. Just another far right liberal bashing thread

Oh, DON'T EVEN START! If you're trying to say that there are more threads bashing liberals than there are bashing conservatives, you better be prepared to be proven wrong. I'm a Bush support too, but I don't believe that all our morals are correct, and theirs are wrong. Liberals have some good things in their beliefs as well.

But, there is no such thing as a "Liberal" anymore.

The most extreme "Liberals" went over to the Other Side--Fascism.

The argument is now about something else:

Are we Constitution-based or are we merely another Globalist nation that is scheduled to be UN-plundered, pillaged and used to satisfy the values of Top-Down industrialists?

Eh?

I am interested in how the process works for UN plunderation of the US.

Is it in any way similar to the top-down industrial model applied by the Bush administration and its cronies to Iraq?

What value do liberals have?
About $300 more than a neo conservative on eBay

Liberals REPUDIATE every ACT that man has committed since he ascended to the President's Oval Office.

Bush is a charlatan, a deceiver, a war criminal, an influence-peddler, a double-dealing two-faced anti-Christ.

And so, anybody who opposes his crimes and dissents from his whacked out policies becomes a "Liberal" by definition--

since he has NO CLUE what the Hell a Liberal even IS.

Really. Yuck.

Emily_Cragg

whhhooooaaahhheeewwww
I dunt evun now wot you is talkin bout nooww

It would seem one has life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, peace, and stability


The other to want life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, [for a few] turmoil, [for profit] instability. [ for control].

Out of curiosity , when Did being republican=being christian. And is bush just like every other republican out there? I find this hard to believe, True i'm not a republican, but i would think that their are many republicans out there ,that just can't wait to see him get the Hell out of office

Before this becomes a full blown Flame War, let me take a shot at answering the question in a fair way.

Liberals(in my oppinion) believe that values are open to revision as society grows and changes. They do have values, but believe they need to change with the times.

Conservitives believe that we need a fixed set of core values that never change. They also feel a need to build and run our nation off of a common set of core values that all Americans (in theory) share. These are things like: freedom, respect for life, religious/spiritual faith.

I am conservitive in my beliefs, but I don't believe in Bush, because I feel that he is a poor leader. I don't want a flame war, the porpose of the last line was to prove that even within the two groups, there are different oppinions. Another example is that I'm 100% prolife! I don't believe in abortion or the death peanality, but I also believe I don't have a right to force my beliefs on others!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance