what values do liberals have?

While at a pro bush rally I knew I was surrounded by people who generally agreed with my morale values. I knew these people were pro life, believed in god, loved America, believed all nations and people deserved freedom, and finally supported our troops. I thought if the liberals generally disagree with the conservatives moral compass what do they believe?. They support the killing of children in there mothers womb, they have on many occasions attempted to rid god from the publics view, they opposed liberating the people of Kuwait and Iraq, and are quick to call our brave troops who would die for our nation war criminals.

Ooops! When I clicked on this thread I actually thought it was someone looking for an honest answer and/or an enlightened look at another point of view. Curse my liberal open-mindedness!!

--Saerlaith

Originally posted by Saerlaith
Ooops! When I clicked on this thread I actually thought it was someone looking for an honest answer and/or an enlightened look at another point of view. Curse my liberal open-mindedness!!

--Saerlaith

Yep, I fell into the same trap. Just another far right liberal bashing thread

The second post certainly demonstrated far more logic and reasoning than the first!

What values exactly does the Bush administration stand for?

No, no, not the lies fed to the public by media puppets - what do they REALLY stand for?

Originally posted by bushfriend
They support the killing of children in there mothers womb

Most believe that they are not living yet, since they are not born, also in a womans right to choose what is to happen to her body. I for one do not believe in the late term abortions...like late 7th to 9th.

they have on many occasions attempted to rid god from the publics view

First ammendment, read it.

they opposed liberating the people of Kuwait and Iraq

No, we oppose the illegal war to steal there oil and beat the living # out of the people. All for making them free, just not the way we went about doing it.

are quick to call our brave troops who would die for our nation war criminals.

Most if not all, dont call the troops criminals, since they are just doing their jobs, but call the Command in Chief that sent them to fight a war for oil, the War Criminal.

[Edited on 15-11-2004 by dreamlandmafia]

[Edited on 15-11-2004 by dreamlandmafia]

Bushfriend, I am no liberal. I have always voted Republican for president.

I don't see how saying conservatives have all positive values, and therefore liberals have all negataive values.
Are you are setting us up to sling mud? Or just trying to keep the pot stirred?
At the very least, you have touched on relgious differences. In my mind, THEY want to keep us polarized.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yikes... Bushfiend, you asked for a bashing with that post. When dealing with these guys you have to use factual data. backed by more factual data. which has to be backed by even more factual data or they will rip you apart. Then when you do post factual data they ignore your thread and never post anything.

I can't back you up on this post buddy even though I *somewhat* agree with you.

Originally posted by bushfriend
While at a pro bush rally I knew I was surrounded by people who generally agreed with my morale values. I knew these people were pro life, believed in god, loved America, believed all nations and people deserved freedom, and finally supported our troops. I thought if the liberals generally disagree with the conservatives moral compass what do they believe?. They support the killing of children in there mothers womb, they have on many occasions attempted to rid god from the publics view, they opposed liberating the people of Kuwait and Iraq, and are quick to call our brave troops who would die for our nation war criminals.

Were does it say we all have to have the same values? If by chance my values do not match yours blow for blow, what happens? What do you suggest we do?
I do not support killing children in their mothers wombs as you put it. Being a male it is not my choice to make for it is not my body that it affects. I do, however believe it is a womens right to choose wether or not to have an abortion.

God has no place in schools, never has period. Why should he/she? Not part of the constitution? Thought not.

I support troops, some of my closest friends are in all branches of the military. This does not mean I need to support my government or a specific military action.

I also would like to add that I love guns...Liberal? Thats me. What we need to do is stop putting labels on people, quit making it all out to be black and white. How many times do I need to say it? Gray it's all gray. My values are mine yours are yours. How hard is that to compute?

Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by Saerlaith
Ooops! When I clicked on this thread I actually thought it was someone looking for an honest answer *snip*

Yep, I fell into the same trap. Just another far right liberal bashing thread

Really???
I clicked this thread to see what someone called "bushfriend" was gonna say about liberals. And assumed a bias.

Ed. to fix quote.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by bushfriend
I knew these people were pro life, believed all people deserved freedom,

A contradiction in terms my friend, or fiend. Democracy is about the people as a collective all allowed the same rights upheld by a government put in place by and working FOR those people. Democracy may not mean freedom to everybody, but it is this DEMOCRACY=FREEDOM model that Bush is using to wage war upon sovereign states. So if you believe in the war, if you agree with Bush, ipso facto you agree with the woman�s right to choose.

Unlike many Bush supporters, Liberals feel that waging a war that led to the killing of 100 thousand people, including babies and chilren, is morally wrong.

Liberals generally feel that the use of Nuclear weapons is morally wrong.
I can't say the same for Bush supporters, judging for the posts on this forum calling for countries to be nuked. I guess conservatives feel it's OK to kill babies and children with radiation.

BushFriend,

I'd say there is a significant value that most "liberals" hold as extremely important that perhaps you haven't considered.

The issue here isn't that you were with "your kind" at the Bush rally, but that a socially conservative agenda forces everyone to bind to these majority values by making them law. Social liberals value the **freedom** of letting each person form his own system of values and then happily live life, and freedom is what America is all about, right?

Do people in America not realise there is more than conservatism and liberalism. I myself hold some conservative opinions and some liberal opinions. That is not to say I am middle ground or center. But I am left wing with some conservative ideas.

You appear to be a victim of the labelling and name calling that the Bush admin has been throwing at the people.

Liberals and Conservatives have different beliefs on what is moral and what isnt' It doesnt necessarily mean our beliefs are immoral because you disagree with it. When I say we I mean I but I hope that other democrats agree.

Abortion is and always will be a contraversial issue. I however am against it. I will agree with the conservatives that people should take some responsibility. But there is still some question in when life begins.

We do not want to rid the world of god. But at the same time we dont want to be preached to. We believe that God/religion is a personal issue and should not be imposed by the government.

We do not hate america. This seems to be the biggest label they have thrown at us yet. For instance the Patriot Act. Those against must not be patriots then right? Operation Iraqi Freedom. Those against that must hate freedom then right? Misleading name calling.

War Criminals. When did anyone call the hundred thousand or so troops war criminals? Never. The people they are referring to are the men running the war. Is it for Oil? I dont know. Maybe but I cant really tell you what it is about, neither can Bush. I think its the Oil for Food program now. But it wasnt that until after the war started.

The biggest reason I choose democrats is because I support labor unions. I am all about workers rights, holiday pay, weekends, overtime, 40 hour work week, living wages etc.



[edit on 15-11-2004 by Thatoneguy]

Thatoneguy
You are right about this trend of labelling. This is what I was trying to get at. I too do not agree with abortion as a moral issue, but do believe in the woman's right to choose. Where would that leave me in the American pigeonhole way of thinking that is happening now?
I believe in god but some days don't. Even though I always live my life to basically Christian values. But not from a religious perspective.
I disagree with the death penalty, but realise people will die in a war to protect me. I agree in sex before marriage, but also believe in absolute monogamy.
These and many, many other contradictions form the base of my way of life. I think this makes me a richer person than believing in one ideology or another. It is a tapestry of belief which each opinion can be changed through new experience and education.This is something an ideology or religion cannot offer. If you are right wing you believe this, if you are Christian you believe that, if you are left wing you believe the other. This is a very stagnant and backward thinking way to live life. Evolution does not only happen to the physical world but the intelligence to. To be open minded at all times is the only way to be true at all times.

Oh yes I forgot about the death penalty.

Isnt there a law that says there is to be no cruel or unusual punishment? I guess if its done often enough it isnt unusual. But its still cruel. Who's right is it to take away their life. Who are we to judge them? Isnt this Christian values as well? Yet they seem to support the death penalty. Doesnt make sense to me.

Gun Rights. This is an old law. I think it was meant for militias. If you want to form a mililtia today you better be prepared to being labeled as a terrorist.

Weapons for game, I have no problem with. But AK47's handguns, etc.. They are meant to kill people. The right to bear arms it says. Doest that mean, since I can own deadly weapons such as AK47's, that i can I also own explosives?

It doesnt say you have the right to bear arms... excpet those that will kill a lot of people.

I know im stretching that one a bit, but its just something for thought.

Yes you are right. Neo conservative Christians in America like George Bush are against abortion. Abortion is the act of terminating life.
The death penalty is also an act of terminating life. George Bush the greatest advocate and implementer of this act.
Go figure, to say this is hypocricy give s hypocricy a bad name.

Dude... you're compairing an innocent baby to rapists murderers and molesters? Sorry but I have to comment on this kind of a statement

You'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hand baby!!!

You ever shot an assult rifle? Its a great stress reliever!

[edit on 15-11-2004 by LostSailor]

I was going to reply to this thread but I think my avatar will speak for me...

Originally posted by LostSailor
Dude... you're compairing an innocent baby to rapists murderers and molesters?
You ever shot an assult rifle? Its a great stress reliever!

[edit on 15-11-2004 by LostSailor]

I feel sad for you. Make the distinction between taking life through abortion or the death penalty and will respond. It seem you have some sort of blood lust.