Ultimate Secret of Freemasonry Revealed!

a reply to: yhin999
You're entitled to your belief about a feminine monotheistic deity.

Masonry should let girls join, it might solve a lot.

That's assuming there is a problem or an issue with the current system.

This thread is not about a "fallen goddess" or the CIA.

Masons never tried to infiltrate the CIA. I'm not saying there are not Masons who are employees, but being employed is not infiltrating.

Please don't argue with me, I told you it was fluff.

LOL This isn't how this all works.

a reply to: yhin999
Well... that's quite a telling tale.
As a child I learned no not disappoint ol'man.
It was a good lesson... it went like this:
God Disappointed is the same as god-dess-appointed.
Mom to the rescue when ol'man is enraged...
But it too does apply to the fundamental religious fanaticism.
There were/are times when I must choose who to serve......


BTW:
I Am Pinocchio...
Of Acacia Wood Was I Fashioned.
With Sh!ttim For My Thoughts.
Adorned In Fine Gold.
BUT! But I Am Not The Ark Of The Covenant! Hmph!

One Day I Shall Become A Real Boy...
Til then... I greet you and welcome you to ATS.

a reply to: KSigMason

Well how would you know or not know. Who knows what the OP was about. It was just a tale about the return of the Goddess. I'll admit it is pretty hard to prove any cross infiltration between Intelligence Agencies and Secret Societies, but I care not for proof, I prefer wild speculation. Could you please get George H W Bush to contact me so I can talk to a Bonesman to clear this up, thanks.

a reply to: yhin999
How wouldn't I know?

Also I'm not a member of the Skull & Bones (it's not a Masonic group) so I guess you'll be waiting a while.

originally posted by: yhin999
In the spirit of the original post I'd like to make up some ridiculous stuff that is quasi-spiritual/Masonic fluff, it goes like this.

There is no God only The Goddess.

God = Goddess
Hermaphrodite or Androgynous.
YinYang 69

In the Spirit of being reasonable and logical, why not debate the points made instead of mocking?

originally posted by: Pinocchio

God Disappointed is the same as god-dess-appointed.

That was a really good one.
Thanks I'll for sure remember to use that.

So wts the secret. Lol a pointless thread
a reply to: muzzleflash

originally posted by: muzzleflash


Call it figurative, an allegory, or even a story, I don't care.

Stop judging people all the time.
It's illogical, irrational, and rude.

Can't we be civilized humans and discuss honestly?

Only way to make Earth better = LOOK IN MIRROR
FIX PROBLEM

Stop judging people?

Why did you then refer to us as "haters who spit venom at the meek?"

Good luck with whatever you're on.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
So wts the secret. Lol a pointless thread
a reply to: muzzleflash

Ya you got me.
But what is the point of pointing that out?

a reply to: RomeByFire

I left the accusation generalized and " in the air " and allowed anyone to apply it as they wish. The fact you said "us", reveals you identify with those labels...it was entirely your choice.

originally posted by: yhin999
a reply to: KSigMason

Well how would you know or not know. Who knows what the OP was about. It was just a tale about the return of the Goddess. I'll admit it is pretty hard to prove any cross infiltration between Intelligence Agencies and Secret Societies, but I care not for proof, I prefer wild speculation. Could you please get George H W Bush to contact me so I can talk to a Bonesman to clear this up, thanks.

I know what it is about.
You certainly are missing it entirely.

I do care for proof, and you should too.

originally posted by: [post=17896314]KSigMason

I'm sure there were a few Lodges, but they were not prolific nor were they composed of Frenchmen. Many Lodges were said to be Irishmen, Scotsman, and Englishmen who were in exile in France (Jacobites). As I said, Stephen Dafoe wrote a great book debunking many of the myths and pointing out that some of the biggest perpetrators of these myths were Masons who wanted to increase the pedigree of their newly formed order.

Again as I said, there are a lot of theories about the continuation and perpetuation of the Templars and their theorized connection to Freemasonry. Just saying there is a theory and that there is a connection is not proof in of itself, no proof exists that proves any connection.

You're right. But what is Dafoe's proof that they weren't filled with French nobles? Please show me some evidence. Enlighten the naive and ignorant.

Well, there is more than one Templar, Maltese, or St. John order in existence. The Masonic ones do not claim any lineage to the medieval orders.

Except the Order of Malta claims they can show their history going back to Palestine during the Crusades to their present day incarnation. Not to mention Andrew Michael Ramsay even said that Masonic Lodges were called Lodges of St. John.

Right, Demolay, Knights Templar or the long ace name that honors the Order of Malta.

We're not honoring the Vatican, but the knights themselves and their legendary virtues and principles.

You're honoring two groups who were created to serve the Vatican.

Because as Christians we seek to uphold the chivalric virtues held by the medieval order.

So why not honor the virtues and principles without the face of Knights, but the face of Freemasonry?

Templars own no intellectual rights to principles or moral codes lol. So why honor a group whom you state has no connection to Freemasonry. Especially one Order that still exists today that originally was the inspiration for having Freemason Lodges called Lodges of St. John. How do you know they were Christian? Because they served the Vatican?



[quote]Not really. You're just reading too much into it.

Or you aren't taking a better look at the world around you.

I can wait.

I will give you that proof. I promise just been busy but I got you this month. Just don't feel like finding the notebook.

It's too bad so much was destroyed by the Ottomans.

Conjecture and repeating theories is not proof.

It's most likely the Knights Templars have had a huge influence on Freemasonry to this day. That's why they are honored.

I'm not saying that. What I was saying is that having rites or rituals, but that not all rites or rituals are religious in nature or a sacrament as you inferred back in this post.

You're right, except yall's rites and rituals are both religious and sacrament.

So I guess you don't know what those two terms mean then.

It would be both dismissive and looking with an eye closed if you thought two religions that had the same symbolism, basically, was both arbitrary and ambigious.


[quoteApparently you do as you are clinging to romanticized theories and exaggerations.

Right back at you, you don't see what you don't want to see.

I will give you my deeper thoughts on Freemasonry in my next post and then do another on the connections between events that happen and alignments with Anilam and Sirius.

a reply to: 112233
At the end of each chapter, Dafoe lists the citations and lists records of Lodges.

The problem with the history of Freemasonry in France is that existing records are either extremely pro-Freemasonry or anti-Freemasonry (not much middle ground), many documents were not seen until 2001 when the Russians returned all Nazi confiscated documents back to France. According to tradition, not record, the earliest Lodges in France are exiles from the United Kingdom (Ireland and England). Many early French Lodges were chartered by the Grand Lodge in England.

Like I said, Ramsay (a Jacobite exile) gave his oration to better sell Freemasonry to the aristocracy. It fits the timeline because after that it was a firestorm of new orders popping up. The Oration was subsequently adopted by the College of Clermont, and was accepted by the Baron von Hund as the basis upon which he erected his Rite of Strict Observance.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

www.travelingtemplar.com...

We don't honor them because they were subordinate to the Vatican, but because of the virtues they lived by. The Chivalric Orders serve as the crowning glory of the American York Rite. The Orders represent a new direction of Masonic thought and experience, in that after the first order (Illustrious Order of the Red Cross) the story leaves the tradition of Ancient Craft Masonry and focuses upon the ideals and practices of chivalry and Christianity. The Order of the Temple is one of the most beautiful ceremonies I've ever been through and conferred.

So why not honor the virtues and principles without the face of Knights, but the face of Freemasonry?

The rituals of Craft Masonry by the time of Ramsay's Oration were becoming more and more centralized and standardized. This is one reason that leads me to believe that the chivalric orders were a result of Ramsay's Oration opening the can of worms about crusader mythos to the creation story of Freemasonry. One only needs to look at Mark and Royal Arch Masonry to see how closely they are held, even in England, to Craft Masonry. I'd keep going, but it would take me too long...I'm actually writing a book on the York Rite: it's history (legendary v recorded), symbols, evolution of the degrees, and everything a new York Rite Mason needs to have an understanding of the Rite, with references to other works for further reading.

To simply answer your question, I'd say that the Templars were so romanticized throughout the years that Christian Masons wished to commemorate them in a body reserved for those who were followers of Christ.

You're right, except yall's rites and rituals are both religious and sacrament.

Except they are not.

The same symbol can be used for two different reasons. You have to look at context as well.

Everyone has a bias, but my research is also reinforced by first hand experience having presided over numerous Masonic bodies and done, what I would call, fairly extensive research, before and after joining.

a reply to: KSigMason

We'll have to agree to disagree that Freemasonry is/isn't a religion.

I say follow the symbolism. Where does it crop up? What are some of the first sightings. Absolutely, look at the context, but also how far back can you trace it whilst looking at the symbol. Whether it is semiotics, etymology, numerology, astrology, tracing the context and how/where/why are all very important when tracing the symbolism.

Such as the connection between the Lodges potentially being called the Lodges of St. John at one time, reflecting it's connections to an Order that has transformed into the present day Order of Malta. Much of the same symbolism is used. Checkered floor patterns, Maltese Cross, Sword, Aprons, Square and Compass.

I don't believe it's just coincidence that the Sigil of Saturn looks eerily similar to the Square and Compass.

symboldictionary.net...

That Rome was once called Saturnalia and that they celebrated a holiday celebrating Saturn. Also called Satan by the Persians. Chronos by the Greeks. Associated with Set by the Egyptians. Nimrod to the Babylonians.

The Sigil of Saturn looks much like the Seal of Solomon which was taken from the Phoenicians and Caananites, who connected it to Saturn, to the Hebrews.

Although I have my thoughts that I haven't found enough info on that the Star of David/Seal of Solomon/Symbol of Saturn is actually a symbol for Sirius.

Sirius permeates much of Masonic symbolism, it is the Eastern star that is in the middle with a ladder leading to it in most Masonic Symbolism.

The Dogon of Mali, whom share many similarities to the Egyptians and may have came from the same culture that created the Great Pyramid since I think the Giza Pyramids and the Sphinx is the actual site of fabled Atlantis and that the Dogon which talk of an amphibious race that gave them that knowledge who were from Sirius(they also had knowledge of Sirius B which we can't see with our naked eye) were some of those who migrated from there and still had the esoteric knowledge of the culture that built the Great Pyramid.

I'm sure you already knew this but this info might help a few people who didn't know. This whole thing is bigger then if you guys are connected to the Knights Templars and if so the implications of that, because you are already connected to something bigger then that, which for me is an elephant in the room because it raises major question marks.

No, I don't think that if those beings existed that they are benevolent. Next on this topic, I will write about events that happened that are connected to Sirius and Anilam that I learned from a knowledgeable fella that I had the privelage of meeting on another forum.

a reply to: 112233
I disagree because we don't meet the basic requirements to be considered a religion:

• Practice sacerdotal functions - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Teach Theology or Dogma - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Seek out or solicit converts - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Means to enforce religious orthodoxy - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Ordain Clergy - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Define sin and salvation - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Perform or offer sacraments - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Publish or specify a Holy Book - Masonry does NOT!
  
• Describe or define the Deity - Masonry does NOT!
  

Nor is Freemasonry a substitute for religions. Freemasonry is far from indifferent to religion. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith. Religious discussion is forbidden in a masonic lodge thereby eliminating the chance for any masonic dogma to form. By any definition of religion, we cannot qualify as a religion.

What symbols are you speaking of? Plus, you should realize that symbols are arbitrary and ambiguous. Nor does "looking similar" constitute a connection. That is called conjecture.

That Rome was once called Saturnalia...

Where did you get this gem?

1) There was a town called Saturnia not Saturnalia, that is only the name of the festival. 2) Saturnia is located in Tuscany, what was once known as Etruria. 3) Rome was cut off from Etruria by the Ciminian Forest.

You should really do real research and learn about history. Not a revised one.

...and that they celebrated a holiday celebrating Saturn. Also called Satan by the Persians. Chronos by the Greeks. Associated with Set by the Egyptians. Nimrod to the Babylonians.

How can Satan be a Persian god? Satan comes from Hebrew meaning "adversary". The Persian god of evil and ruler of demons was called Ahriman not Satan.

Sirius has nothing to do with Masonry nor the Eastern Star.

originally posted by: 112233
That Rome was once called Saturnalia and that they celebrated a holiday celebrating Saturn.

Rome was never called 'Saturnalia', that was the name of the holiday which became Christmas.

a reply to: 112233

I can tell you must not have read some of my prior threads because I covered those things fairly well, at least supplied links to stuff so you could read about it. In fact these threads have the potential to change your entire point of view on these topics, well worth taking some time to investigate.

You really ought to read these entire threads to the end because you are missing a lot of pieces:

This one is the intro (data dump) so to speak-
Unicorn

This is the follow-up that really gets into the meat of the topics and explains a lot-
Neptune

This thread is more of an example of how you can 'play with' symbolism and come up with some really fascinating things-
ChiRho is MC^2

And of course the Sha thread which was one of the most enjoyable things I've ever written-
Shade of the Sha

Hopefully this mass of information will reveal to you that almost everyone is still thinking 'inside the box'. And I'm sorta like a crazy guy with a box cutter, you would be surprised what that little blade can accomplish.

originally posted by: KSigMason

That Rome was once called Saturnalia...

Where did you get this gem?

1) There was a town called Saturnia not Saturnalia, that is only the name of the festival. 2) Saturnia is located in Tuscany, what was once known as Etruria. 3) Rome was cut off from Etruria by the Ciminian Forest.

You should really do real research and learn about history. Not a revised one.

Interesting this was brought up again. I went and wiki'd it and noticed that the page on this has grown quite a bit over the last year or so. More photos etc.
Saturnia wiki

Hey, KSig, this is the second time this week you caused me to have a series of epiphanies that I didn't write down in public yet, but do plan to soon. I may write a post on "Satan - Saturn" here shortly in this thread. You caused me to realize some stuff today, so conducted some research and I can see something surprising there so will work on it more and attempt to make a post for it. As usual it wasn't the point you were making, but a specific word you mentioned that set me off.

My main issue (writers block) currently is that I have become really critical of my own writing and so am never quite happy with it and so keep pushing things to the back till I rework it. I really ought to find some time this week and try to at least formulate a legit thread of some sort, and I really want to go with that "thing" you caused me to realize earlier in the week because it's very pleasant and informative.

The topic is Top Secret currently, but I will tell you it's very laid back and chill, very musical and it's colored bluesy. I feel like I am missing a piece though that will make it uber, and usually like to just wait around until that 'piece' presents itself. I will declassify it soon enough...

a reply to: muzzleflash
I'm a mind reader! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I do look forward to your post. I hate writers block; I'm currently writing a book and I'm stuck on my introduction to two of my chapters.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: 112233
That Rome was once called Saturnalia and that they celebrated a holiday celebrating Saturn.

Rome was never called 'Saturnalia', that was the name of the holiday which became Christmas.

You're right, I had heard it somewhere and whilst in a fatigued state I put it down, my bad again. Thank you all on the correction. I already knew about Saturnia and Saturnalia being a holiday from the 17th to the 23rd.

I disagree on your assessment of Saturnalia being Christmas. Manfred Clauss, the Roman Cult of Mithras, celebrated Mithras' birthday on 25 December and they merged Christianity as the main religion not just to better control the population but also combined it with the Cult of Mithras.

Don't worry I'll get to everyone including the long ace post for Ksig.