Accidents happen, why should I be punished? Is it OK to push for abortion?

kezzy24
and by way iknowstuff havent u heard ur countrys a lot worse then ours in statistics no offence other americans

Im Australian but live in Malaysia, both of them better than the UK as evidenced by the amount of Brit expats in both places who do nothing but complain about the UK.

Personally I cant wait to get over there and Im sure Ill love it

Carreau
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Business owner, employ 30+ and are doing "ok" but can't/won't support your own child. Do you like to kick puppies in your spare time?

There are several words that describe you perfectly but all of them are a violation of the T&C.

No I wont support a child whos upbringing I get no say in, if this makes me a bad man in your or anyone elses eyes Im sure Ill cope

least me and my fiancee work hard to keep our child healthy its people who dont pay for their kids but leave it to tax payers to pay i hate

yamammasamonkey
You are not being punished. It actually sounds like the child will be punished by having you as his/her father. Start saving up so you can fulfill your financial obligations, and I will pray the girl finds a wonderful man to marry and become a loving father to this child.

Ironically I agree, Im in no way ready to be a father which is whats this is all about, I know Id make a terrible father. If I dont have a say in the kids upbringing then I can guarantee I wont be paying a cent for it.

Pray to Allah, the girls a Muslim and by law so will her child be and any man she marries will need to convert if hes not already.

and people think im a drama queen over the twins i was 20 going on 21 k i never over dramtise and if i did then why does my fiancee have counseling for it because he wakes up screeming about it

reply to post by Sovaka


Everything your saying would be true for OZ, I know a fair bit about this stuff in OZ due to my folks getting divorced when I was about 8-9.

Unfortunately here in Malaysia if any Muslims are involved it will go to the Sharia court. basically as a non muslim my arguments that I dont want the kid brought up as a muslim would most likely get me thrown either in jail or out of the country. If this was back home it would be a completely different ball game

ok iknowstuff
i am matt kezzys fiancee

here is my balanced view
both you have rights but if you both cant agree you should try and compromise

with the abortion at this minute in time i do not think it is right as both of you are stressed with one another
i suggest calming down going to a neutral place and discuss it rationally

and people please do not insult my fiancee her dyspraxia does mean she can be traumatized by things like a miscarriage easily so please be kind to her thank you

kezzy24
ok iknowstuff
i am matt kezzys fiancee

here is my balanced view
both you have rights but if you both cant agree you should try and compromise

with the abortion at this minute in time i do not think it is right as both of you are stressed with one another
i suggest calming down going to a neutral place and discuss it rationally

and people please do not insult my fiancee her dyspraxia does mean she can be traumatized by things like a miscarriage easily so please be kind to her thank you

Hey Matt,

My apologies if I was rude to Kezzy, I knew by her typing she was getting upset and should have left it alone.

Unfortunately there is nothing left to discuss, The kid will be born here, born a Muslim, have a name like Abdul or Binti, go to the schools she chooses, get the moral and ethical principles she ascribes to, its basically her way or the highway, Im choosing the highway

i am sorry it has not happened the way you like and i do truly understand that

with kezzy she gets so upset about this kind of thing because she sees a different view of things as normal people so she gets frustrated if she thinks people don't understand her

and her miscarriage was as bad as she described but some of it she missed because she lost so much blood they where very small both fit in my palm with plenty of room left

shes had a bad past where men have abused her in many ways because dyspraxia makes her a good target for them

she never means to insult peoples view and other stuff she does feel sad she insulted anyone but she is crying because people think she was dramatizing it and hurt her on the subject that is still raw even though its been 3 years

reply to post by seeker1963

But hey, I still stand by my statement that you like to refer to gun owners as murderers, but yet, here you are on ATS admitting you being a failure as a man and wanting everyone to think that because your unborn child isn't in your mind, a human being that your decision to kill it, isn't any worse than a person with a gun taking someone elses life!

Sorry can you point out the part where I admit to being a failure of a man? Oh sorry, are you using hyperbole?

The fact that you cant distinguish between killing a man in the street and aborting an unborn fetus tells me you shouldnt be allowed near a gun.

Out of curiousity (purely so I can get a handle on your perspective) If a Dr euthanises a terminally ill cancer patient who is in severe pain with weeks left to live is that As bad as shooting someone or aborting a fetus?

iknowstuff

kezzy just read your last post and she admits you make sense

as a great aunt died of cancer she begged to be killed but they let her die in agony and kezzy says that is worse then abortion letting a person die in agony when a dog can be put down

kezzy24
i am sorry it has not happened the way you like and i do truly understand that

with kezzy she gets so upset about this kind of thing because she sees a different view of things as normal people so she gets frustrated if she thinks people don't understand her

and her miscarriage was as bad as she described but some of it she missed because she lost so much blood they where very small both fit in my palm with plenty of room left

shes had a bad past where men have abused her in many ways because dyspraxia makes her a good target for them

she never means to insult peoples view and other stuff she does feel sad she insulted anyone but she is crying because people think she was dramatizing it and hurt her on the subject that is still raw even though its been 3 years

Once again my sincere sympathies for what you both went through, its obvious this is still affecting her.
Im not being nasty when I say I think she needs to attend some of the counselling sessions with you.

Its a touchy subject so please pass on my apologies to her when she calms down and let her know no offence was taken on this end.

kezzy says sorry

i try to get her to come but she is afraid the councilor will make her remember it
but she hopes you have no bad feelings towards her

she also says she is beginning to side with you because she starting to understand where you are coming from

kezzy24
kezzy says sorry

i try to get her to come but she is afraid the councilor will make her remember it
but she hopes you have no bad feelings towards her

she also says she is beginning to side with you because she starting to understand where you are coming from

No need for apologies from her and no hard or bad feelings over here, If anything I feel bad for making her have to remember all this stuff.
That said maybe she does need to work through it and remember? A period of heightened pain might be better than a lifetime of dull agony.

I hope she is OK either way

yeah

she doesn't want to remember as she has vague memory's and flashbacks which gives her nightmares
what she knows comes from me,paramedics and doctors

but she says she feels so much guilt that's why she gets upset by abortions because she want's to stop other peoples guilt

text writing is easier for kezzy as even though she is intelligent she can't spell very well but boy never go against her in quiz on science or history i learnt hard way i got a in history she still knew more then me

Sovaka

Then I strongly suggest you politely request a DNA test.

If she denies the request, then you can ask her why and try and get a reasonable explanation.
If she cannot provide you one, then you have two options... Both relatively hostile.

#1. Tell her that she can not make any requests on you in terms of parental support (physical and financial) until your request is fulfilled to your satisfaction. When so, the terms of your original statement will come into effect.
#2 . Court ordered Paternity test to determine your role.

You do have options... Never let anyone tell you otherwise.

If it does indeed turn out to be your child then you have a few more options as well.
Based on both your financial and living accommodations, you can request sole custody of the child based on your raising the child is in its best interests.
You will either succeed or you won't... If you don't it will likely be because the courts grant custody to the mother 80% of the time due to her being the mother.
But there will be a period of court monitoring to determine if it is the best environment for the child.
At which you should get equal custody...

Which means for you, you will have a say in the child's development, backed by the courts.
Which means she cannot raise it in a religion that you do not agree with.
If she violates that agreement, then custody can possibly shift to you... entirely.

So you need to be ready for this battle.

It is going to be a long painful one if she is resistant at any stage.

This post is excellent. OP you should take this advice.

I would say normally in a muslim country as a man that you would get rights to the child over the mother, but since she is muslim and you aren't you don't have a chance of getting custody of the child.

I'm honestly a little surprised that a muslim woman was having casual sexual relations with a non-muslim man. Not to stereotype, but I thought promiscuous women were really frowned upon and honored killed in most muslim societies?
You mentioned that you are a businessman. Is it possible that she and/or her family could have decided you would make good husband material because you have money and she then decided to persue you? You did say she initiated things originally. (I'm not saying the child was a planned accident, just that the sex may have been).

At any rate, definitely get a paternity test. You had a casual drunken sex based fling or two... you really have no connection to her and don't know how many other guys she could have been sleeping with at the same time. I am ashamed to admit I have watched Maury before, but what I noticed after seeing several episodes was that the women who were on there looking for the father of their kid(s) was that the ones who were on their 4,5 or more guy to test... they all started their testing with the guy (they "KNEW" was the father) that made the most money. They then paternity tested their way down the money chain from there.

Worst case scenario - You are the father. Decide what role or lack of role you want to play in the child's life and then move on with your life as best you can.

Bassago
Dude, start saving, you're going to need it. DNA tests don't even matter sometimes. This happened to a freind of mine, DNA said it wasn't him, judge said he didn't care. Guess who had to pay? Yep he did.

I don't know of anyone this has happened to personally, but I have heard of it before. I believe it has something to do with being listed as the father on the birth certificate. I'm sorry I can't remember where I heard (or more likely read about a similar case.) From what I recall of it though, the judge said that if the "father" wasn't sure he was the real biological father he should never have allowed his name to be put on the birth certificate and that by allowing it, he was agreeing to act as the father?

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by supermarket2012

 

So your saying everytime anyone has sex they are choosing to become parents???

"How dare she not listen to me and get an abortion!"

Sorry can you please point out where I said anything even remotely like that?
What I said was "On the 2 minute walk home it hit me, How Fukn dare she or any woman say its not my decision!!!!!!"

Upto the point where she said I had no say I was "manning up" and trying to do the right thing from a financial perspective

1. YES. I am saying EXACTLY THAT. Everytime you have sex, you are taking a chance of getting a female pregnant, and therefore becoming a father. Are you that daft that you didn't realize that? How old are you? Old enough to BE having sex?

2. You DON'T have any say. You DON'T HAVE ANY SAY. You...do....not...have...ANY...say. How many times should I tell you this so that you understand? You do NOT have any say whether or not she keeps her child.


Don't take this personal chap.......I was in the same situation years ago, and now I'm a proud father. Time to step up to the plate and be a man.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

PROTECTION WAS USED!!!!

condoms break because either the codoms are old and dried in which case you need to get laid more or two there is not enough viscosity in the vaginal canal(dry) in which case you need to spend a little more time with the foreplay'

but what do i know Im catholic I dont use condoms lol

The morning after pill is a wonderful thing.

In this particular case though, no, I don't think OP can push for an abortion. You can make it clear to the girl that you do not want this baby, but I don't think you can tell her what she can or cannot do with her body. If she wants the baby, she's having the baby. And you, unfortunately by the sounds of it, have to live with the consequences of having sex.

And babies are the consequence of sex.

So time to man up and be as good a father to this kid as you can. Because lord knows it sounds like the poor little blighter is gonna need somebody to step up and be there for him/her.

IkNOwSTuff
The mother is a neighbour who took advantage of my drunken state on 3 occasions

Wrong. YOU got drunk and YOU agreed to have sex. You weren't raped.

... even shagging her

How old are you? 14?

How Fukn dare she or any woman say its not my decision!!!!!!

Because it's not.

you had to man up and marry whatever uggo you knocked up...

'uggo'?? Like I said ... are you 14?
She was good enough to have sex with THREE TIMES, but now she's an 'uggo'?

as I consider babies parasites till their born

Dude .. you suck.

I told her she would been seen by her community as a slut,

But you wouldn't be a slut because you are the man, right?
Only women can be sluts? Dude ... YOU are a slut.