My Experience with a small police "raid" and what to learn from it

reply to post by darkbake


Well i assume you are a united States citizen, if so you have allot of rights they can't break legally.

There warrant did not grant them access to the house. Your friends just should have made them wait outside and your friend c just come out and get arrested.

Once in smell or no smell they have no right to enter your home, in this case your room. You should have just flat said not unless you have warrant. At that point you could just shut your door and wait. It is doubtful without you having a record they would have been able to get a warrant. You would have been fine. And you would have had time to just flush the spice.

You have rights, you gave them away. Now the house you live in has common areas that if they found items they could choose to charge all of you. But good luck for them proving who owned the items.

You really have no leg to stand on. It does not matter if some kid called you guys in or not. Fact was they had a warrant, that was limited in scope but you guys superceded that by letting them in and giving them items.

Next time say respectfully not with out a warrant. And all your troubles would be over.

Note, never take what a clerk says, always take recorder with you and be sure you inform her you are recordingt he conversation. Just say you have memory issues and need the recording, they have to let you. Do the same with the cops.

I wish you luck and learn your rights and use them.

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reply to post by darkbake


Just a nice little note for future reference, they aren't allowed to search the house for anything other than the person listed on the warrant...This means they can't go looking through your cabinets, dumping clothes out of your laundry baskets, or looking under your mattress...

Read and print off a copy of the fourth amendment later for future reference.

If your friend is on probation he and his car/house can be searched without a warrant at any time.

criminal-law.freeadvice.com...

A probation officer has to do the search. However, if the probation officer feels there are possible dangers in the house they can call for law enforcement assistance.

The police officer cannot participate in the search, but can take over if the probation officer finds "contraband".

The probation/law enforcement cannot search roomates, their belongings or their rooms without consent, or probable cause. If they smelled an illegal substance that would be probable cause for search.

When they asked you if you had any contraband you said "yes" and gave it to them. That was your mistake.

I agree with the poster that said they have had experience with situations like this in the past. Change the friends you hang out with and make sure to do what you do in the privacy of your own home. Situations like this will practically cease to exist.

darkbake
reply to post by darkbake

 

More information on this: when we went to the courthouse over a month ago and asked them if everything was square with my room-mate C., they said yes, and we asked them multiple times, I did especially.

So how come the police chose today to come arrest him all of a sudden? When they came in the house, they said it "reeked" of smoke, however my mom came to the house 5 minutes prior and said she smelled nothing -

I think there is another factor involved in the situation with an individual, a kid, who probably called the cops on us because he was upset we weren't letting him hang out and giving him cigarettes. He has been coming over consistently and lying about his age and stuff.

If I had to guess, the kid called the cops, and then the cops manufactured a way into the house without getting a warrant, and then lied about smelling smoke in order to give them false probable cause.

So I'm going to be looking into this. I have the resources to check all of that.

edit on 20-10-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

They were fishing. It is a common tactic. They say they smell something or hear something and then ask permission to search, knowing that they do not have cause to search because if they had cause, they would not have to ask. They know that most people will consent and then they'll find something.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I have never lied about smelling something and asked for permission to search. Definitely not saying it doesn't happen though.

However it is common practice to ask for permission to search even though probable cause is already established.
Having a person verbally consent or sign a form of consent holds up much better in court then what an officer smells.

And you guys are right, LEO's are allowed to lie to trip people up. It is generally refered to as a law enforcement ruse. It can be a useful tactic. However, in my opinion this tactic should not be used on everyday people. Even people that may enjoy certain things in their own home. It should be reserved for use against actual criminals.

I don't know the OP and wasn't there to witness what occured. However, I still stand by the idea of choosing your friends wisely. Also be extra cautious until certain laws are changed.

Hey guys,
Thank you for your responses, I will review them in a second, however I would like to say that my intuition paid off. In the original portion of this thread, I talked about what happened yesterday morning.

In the meantime, the owner of the house spied what he thinks was a surveillance van down the street and in addition to that, I left to visit relatives and we called a defense attorney who said that she did believe there was something else going on - because there is no reason that C. would be arrested at 8:00 on a Sunday morning.

So the defense attorney said that she was going to file for discovery.

There are things going on with C. as well, for example, his computer was attacked two days ago and his power supply blown. He has a major computer. In addition, we don't know the whole story, he was arrested without the police telling us why.

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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


Okay I will, thanks. Although as I suspected there was something going on here, I meant to focus on the mechanics of the situation in order to highlight that, we can promptly move past that subject, as it wasn't mean to be the main focus or relevant other than in the mechanics.

Other than that, I honestly couldn't guess what is going on in this situation so I'm going to keep details out for the most part and focus on mechanics.

TorqueyThePig

And you guys are right, LEO's are allowed to lie to trip people up. It is generally refered to as a law enforcement ruse. It can be a useful tactic. However, in my opinion this tactic should not be used on everyday people. Even people that may enjoy certain things in their own home. It should be reserved for use against actual criminals.

Yeah you are right, I have a feeling that we were being lied to about a lot of stuff to "trip us up" even though we would really just like to be left alone to play video games and board games. It's a good thing I have an attorney filing for discovery.

@NavyDog: Thanks for identifying that tactic. I don't think this kind of trickery should be used against everyone, it's ridiculous. I certainly think we have a right to know about it in order to protect against our Civil Liberties.@Torquey and Veritas: Thanks for the legal information.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


Hey guys, I wanted you to know that I had to leave Idaho for Washington State and hire a defense attorney because when the police came into our house, they thought it was being used for trafficking, I have a P.S.R. worker who comes to my house Monday and Friday, my mom who visits every once in a while and a former college math professor who visits on Friday for board game nights, we think all of them have been being tailed by the police who think we are involved in some kind of nonexistent criminal organization.

This is due to the suspicious activity during the police raid, as well as the fact that I have been getting pulled over for odd reasons - but this has been happening to my mom and my p.s.r. worker - that means psycho-social-rehabilitation - there was also a suspicious kid who kept on coming by our house acting strangely and lying about his age and wanting cigarettes.

Unfortunately, I am on disability for autism and I don't trust the methods that are being used by the police in this instance, and that is not because of this website, that is because a lot of things are not adding up -

Well that's all I can do. I'm waiting for my defense attorney to get the disclosure documents before returning to Idaho from Washington because I don't want to get caught in more entrapment schemes, and I'm serious about that, so once I know what is going on then I will return for my court date and to get my stuff. And by stuff I mean clothes and all lol.

Even if there is nothing going on, I had to leave because I don't have enough information to know what could happen. I sincerely feel sorry for other people in my situation, which could have been me, or might still be, who are caught up in overzealous police schemes or are in situations that they can't get out of and aren't able to do much about it.

I don't even know what the legal precedent is for people crossing the border from Idaho into Washington (where my parents live) the states hate each other. But I had to move back in in order to get out of a bad situation. I'll make it back in time for my court date, depending on how corrupt I think the situation is, that will determine how freaked out I am.

Wish me luck, please, and hopefully this is no big deal. The defense attorney I chose is in training to work on death penalty cases. And this is a misdemeanor.

reply to post by darkbake


Truck the public defender. Go to the county clerks office...ask for a motions form. Fill in motion to dismiss. Site illegal search and seisure based upon constitutional amendment rights...Find the US CODE TITLE CHAPTER AND NUMBER AND INCLUDE THAT. Get another motion to dismiss.. Find the US Code about the tenant law...you were renting a room that room is your property so on so on. Since you were RENTING. Was there a renters agreement that cemented you were a tenant or do you just pay him to live there. BIG BIG DIFFERENCE.

If you did have spice...It is illegal. But since found after the fact of an illegal search and seizure...Not admissable in court. And include this tid bit in your motions to dismiss. There are so much more. Look up case precedence not that hard # is everywhere with your type of case on the net.

Go to the D.A.'s office and tell them that you are FORMALLY requesting your RIGHT to have a motions hearing between you the DA and the judge. Submit you motions papers...DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT FILL THEM OUT RIGHT...If you are denied your motions hearing. Tell the D.A. that you will be including them and the Judge in a lawsuit showing how you were violated and stripped of you constitutional rights.

Either way in the interest of justice...case dismissed.


Be firm when you talk and be impassable

reply to post by darkbake


every single error that the cop made make another motion to dismiss based on conduct or procedure. take your life in your own hands... god bless and good luck btw US CODE ALWAYS SUPERSEDES STATE CODE

darkbake

But the question is, how do you keep an officer from searching your room or your car without seeming suspicious? Any ideas on that one?

Wrong attitude my friend.

Who are police when they are in your house without invitation or when they have detained you at roadside? They are the naked, political force of the state brought to bear against you. From the first moment of uninvited contact, you are in political combat. The first step at *winning* is to identify your enemies and the boundaries of the game.

The best strategy is to be minimally polite to the point of identifying yourself if asked or providing vehicle operation documents requested in a calm manner. Otherwise "I'm sorry officer, I don't have anything to say to you". When appropriate "I do not consent to searches". When the officer appears to be finished with you "Am I free to go"?

You can always get legal help later so do not be bullied. Never play word games. "Passive and calm" is the key. Never, ever cooperate because you have "nothing to hide".

Remember that the police now serve a government that has completely gone off the rails. Remember the video and audio recordings we see daily that show that a sizable percentage of our police are equally out-of-control. Covert video and audio can definitely help.

reply to post by darkbake


"However, the situation is one where the officers were very pleasant and we were cooperating with them, and he basically wanted us to round up what we had in the house that was illegal (not very much, really) because of what he smelled to save him the time, stuff like that, I think he made a note that we were cooperative, but he could just as easily be joking about how easy it was with his buddies"

The question is why would the police have you round everything up to make things easier on them. They could have a bigger bust with you rather then your roommate. Them asking you to round stuff up to make their job easier if the first sign they are full of sh%t.

reply to post by darkbake


I think the dog alert was ruled down as a probable cause.

reply to post by darkbake


"In fact, they might be honest and let you know that it would be easier just to cooperate. "

LOL.. well of course they would say that, they always say that. What makes you think that's them being honest when it's there normal script about everything?

TorqueyThePig

And you guys are right, LEO's are allowed to lie to trip people up. It is generally refered to as a law enforcement ruse. It can be a useful tactic. However, in my opinion this tactic should not be used on everyday people. Even people that may enjoy certain things in their own home. It should be reserved for use against actual criminals.

Which is completely #ed up no matter which way you look at it....I am lawfully obligated to speak truth or nothing at all to a LEO, yet you guys have no legal nor lawful obligation to ever speak a single word of truth to us..

reply to post by darkbake

Well in my opinion, you being cooperative with the cops probably saved you from the inconvenience of going to jail. I've had too many encounters and spent too much time in jail jail in my younger days so I feel I know how these guys operate pretty well.

If you had refused for them to search then they would of found a reason to if they wanted to bother with it. They could of called the dogs or found some other probable cause.

Your rights are meaningless at that point in time. You may be able to fight a case in court or the judge may even dismiss a case if the cops acted inappropriately but your still going to jail.

I was pulled over for speeding outside of Dallas for speeding. After running my license and veiwing my arrest record they decided they wanted to search my car. I refused. I had been driving for 8 hours already and still had 4 to go to make it home to Houston.

It was 3am and I just wanted to be on my way. They told me I wouldn't be realesed until they got a K-9 unit there and it would probably be 3-4 hours before they would get there. Just so you guys know, the cop can get a dog to hit on a car during the walk around with hand gestures even if the dog doesn't detect anything.

So I consented to the search after the threat of waiting and I was assured it would be real quick. Well for 1 1/2 hours I sat on the side of I-45 watching them search my small Honda accord. Of course they found nothing and I was released.

always say nothing to the police when they caution you they say YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT .

well remain silent just shrugg .

by law there has to be a injured party .

ask the prosecuter does he have a claim against you then ask the judge does he the case should be dismissed as neither of them has a claim on you .

you do not need a fancy lawyer to go to court .