Pepper go to this link and read with an open mind you may find the LDS Church is not being so open with its congregation.

A Warning About The Keys of Enoch

If you have read the link then you have found the Book of Enoch has been around longer than any other holy scripture. There has been decades of very intense research into this, dont let the LDS church Brainwash you into dismissing fact. If you do some research you will find there are some problems in the mormon church you are expected to dismiss and not allowed to question! Dont believe me? Print out the pages on the Link Ive Provided and lay them down in front of one of the high ranking elders of the LDS Church and see what a warm welcomed conversation generates from it.
And be prepared to be scorned! If you hold any rank in the LDS Church, Dont expect to keep it!
You say the Book of Enoch, Enoch1, is false doctrine only because you have been conditioned to believe that, yet other books in the bible we use today directly quote from enoch1.

Back to the subject ..petey_pongo23
,The city of Enoch was built East of Eden Sorry I dont have the map but by reading enoch1 may help you begin your search, good luck here is the link Enoch 1

Iwunder, you have really confused me with your post! I hope that the things I will say will come across the right way. I feel that there is a whole lot that needs to be clarified. I'm hoping your posts were because you are concerned about me, rather than just trying to discredit a good church that has a whole lot of people just trying to be better people.

First, I think that you may have misunderstood my post. I don't think that we as church and I certainly not, do dispute that their are ancient records of the Book of Enoch, which is what I stated in my earlier posts. In fact, we KNOW their will be further witnesses of the Bible. What I thought I was getting across is that we should be excited that there is also modern revelation regarding Enoch and his City, that clarify more abundantly the account in Genesis.

I'm not sure what you are aluding to, that we will be scorned for believing in ancient records and lose our callings (not ranks) in the church?????? I am a person that has talked openly about other records that have been found that confirm our doctrine and I have never been chastised yet. Has this happened to you or did you take an anti-mormon class that taught you that this is how we treat people? If it did happen, I'm very sorry, however, I don't think people in the church are without flaw, but the doctrine IS as received by Joseph Smith and our current prophets. HOwever if your just going on what you "heard" look at where the source is coming from. Is that really Christ-like?

Let me make myself more clear, since apparantly I didn't do that earlier. As a church we KNOW we look forward for further evidence, which has been coming forward for a long time, that confirms that the accounts in the Bible are true. This will also confirm that it is possible to have additional scripture that testifies of Christ. Everything I read in your links is mostly out of a book I own that I got at Deseret Book, called The Book of Enoch, the Prophet translated by Richard Laurence (I stated this before)

I have intently studied the scriptures every day of my life (few exceptions) for 17 years. I have studied the other ancient writings that are made available. I get excited when all these things confirm what we all should know, that Jesus is the Christ and he will return. I have also taken the challenges from anti-mormon doomsayers to learn "how my church is betraying me" and have read all of their literature. All that has accomplished is to deepen my faith and my commitment in what I feel in my heart to be true. Unfortunately, that does not satisfy them and they accuse me of being brainwashed.

I do not in anyway feel I am being deceived or brainwashed by my church. Who would be doing the brainwashing anyway? We are a church of lay ministry which means the average Joe are the ones who are the "teachers and leaders" of the chruch who teach with out pay. I personally, have held postitions of responsibilty and currently am the Gospel Doctrine teacher in my Ward. I have never taken a class or been personally trained on how to do that. Where did we get our teachings to do be able to brainwash? We don't hold special classes on how to discredit another religion or feel that we need to. Our message stands on it own merit.

I have thought for myself, acted for myself and the decisions that I have made make me happy. I allow all people the right to their belief that makes them happy without trying to discredit their churches, which I could easily do, but what good can come of that? Our philosophy is this: We invite you to learn what we teach, if you like what you hear and it feels right to you, then we invite you to join with us, if not, we love you, good luck to you and let us be friends.

My frustration comes when the intent of people who say and do such hateful things about people they never even knew (Joseph Smith, etc) I question their character because I would never in a million years, no matter if I don't believe in another churches doctrine, would I stand outside their temples, churches, print material, etc. to hurt or injure those people or disrupt their happiness. It is an evil agenda that does that. God=Love and peace. Satan= hate and anger.

I think ultimately, some want to cast the "mote" out of their neighbors eye, when they have a "beam" in their own. I think we should be more kind, more tolerant, more friendly, more loving, more holy and we would all be fine.

Thanks for your post and your concern.

Your right I appologize that was a little direct and inapropriate, but I do hope you take the time to read and explore the link I provided and read the owners of the site link motives.
Additional it may be a good Idea to have this discussion beginning another thread cuz I think our discussion is bringing the thread in a direction the original author predicted and asked kindly not to happen.

If you start another thread please U2U me the link, for the topic is interesting.



Edited Spelling

[edit on 11/19/04 by Iwunder]

Yeah, but most threads that have any connection with the LDS Church (not the "Mormon Church") tends to go that way. Perhaps I could have posted that in the prediction section of ATS, however, I would like to point something out. I have noticed a pretty high number of LDS members on the ATS forum, which is amazing since so many consider us to be a "no questions asked" religion, because ATS would then be the antithesis of our Church if that was the point. I'm the male YSA representative for my ward (and possibly the stake starting next semester), so I've got some responsibility too, but I haven't been accepted into any of the brainwashing classes yet either.

I had to defend my right to believe in whatever I want to believe in tonight at a friend's apartment while playing Pictionary. I was the only LDS member there, and one person came up to me basically asking how I could believe in something like that since I was such an intelligent person (his words about me being intelligent, definately not mine). I asked him what difference it would make in the world whether I believe or not since in his world there is no God (he is a card carrying member of the ACLU). Regardless of whether I believe Joseph Smith translated the Scriptures, or whether we are governed by a giant bologna sandwich in the sky it wouldn't matter, because in his view there is no God, so I wouldn't be hurting anyone. He accepted that answer and we continued the game.

Back to the point about the City of Enoch. We, as the LDS community, believe that this city was translated (meaning that the inhabitants of the city did not taste death). Therefore, any searches for physical remains would be useless, assuming that our belief is correct (for the sake of going along with our beliefs). My initial question was whether or not the City of Enoch could possibly be one of the civilizations talked about in legends, but under a different name.

Sounds like you made your point with the coldcut sandwich. I would like to know if youve expiermented with the links and what your interpretation of the material is taking into consideration the amount of research these people put into translating the doctrine with the strongs concordance.

When I lived in colorado I attended a morman church for a spell but quickly became unpopular by asking innocent questions that seemed to quickly ruffle feathers with short agressive answers.

I still have many LDS, Morman freinds, I dont judge them, they are still christians, I have catholic freinds as well as many others, Thats One of the things that makes our Nation So Great, Free Choice, and Diversity.

I am glad you hold tight to your religeon and beliefs, Without ethics, morals, and guidance, we give our children no direction, nothing to look forward to, or understanding of reward for living in the light of good or how to defend themselves in a world that seems to be now more than ever is being encompassed with evil and darkness.

My opinion is the morman empire is more business oriented, but thats just my opinion which I am entitled as you are.

I just want to know how you interpret the material.

I lived for awhile with a mormon family. My only question and it has remained for years now is: why do mormons stock up with food and have fondness for guns?

Do they know something others don't?

Preparedness, theyve done it for years, in the event of major cotastrophe or colamity.

Nowadays, probably wouldnt hurt to take up the practice. Call it a paranoid angle if you like, but if something big and bad happens its not likely you will be able to run to your local drive thru for a burger!!

Okay, I am not wanting to sound pushy or anything here but apparently some things need to be cleared up. It is the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", not the "Mormon Church". Also, Iwunder, you have repeatedly referred to is as the "Morman" church. I understand that this spelling is used to put forth the opinion that it was created by man and not of God. I am sure that you are intelligent enough to not misspell this word time and time again, as the "o" and "a" keys are spaced far apart on the keyboard so it is not a mistyped key. This should clear up one of two things, either you will have learned how to correctly spell the social label that has been placed upon the LDS Church, or you will have realized that I have realized the distinct spelling of the word.

As for the food storage. I have family in Florida living in the area that the hurricanes came through. As far as I know, I am the only LDS member in my family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.). However, there are 3 seperate families of mine that live in 3 seperate parts of Florida. When they were called to evacuate, all 3 families found themselves inside of an LDS building where they stayed until the evacuation was called off (or whatever they do). The stockpiling of food is not just for ourselves, but it is often used to help others in the community. Saving up some canned goods for an emergency isn't a bad idea anyways, that's the way I grew up. Canned vegetables, peaches, apple butter, lots of canned goods for when the winter hit. That's the way my family has always gone about things preparing for the winter, but the LDS Church recommends that its members do the same, in order to be more prepared for whatever may come our way.

Now to link this with the topic at hand...I wonder how much stored food was also translated when the City of Enoch was "called up"?

Also, we (speaking of the LDS community) have been told that it is important to have proper rest, so after staying up until 2:00am playing Pictionary last night then having class at 8, lab at 9, and a test at 10 I feel that I am in need of a nap. I'm just doing what I have been told is good for me, and I do this often. So I'll check this later on after I've had a good nap (besides, it's Friday and I've earned it)...

No Im not jamaican just a simply not thinking on the spelling, im not a scholar obviously, ok mon

Okay, I'm glad to hear that. It's hard to read someone's emotions through a forum or instant messaging, but gauging from the rest of your posts it didn't seem like you were making a sly play on words. My assumptions were correct, and I am glad. If you plug in "Mormon" and "Morman" into a computer's default speech program, it comes out the same. No harm, no foul.

I think this thread might have ran its course, so what's another ancient civilization that we can touch on that hasn't already been swamped on the ATS board?

I am for the question about where was Abraham's city of Ur? By the way you guys were cracking me up! I really needed that laugh today.

I have read Hugh Nibley Book on Abraham and he commented that in Abrahams days that they were technicologically way more advanced than we give them credit. In fact in some of the ancient writings...I'll have to go back to which, that they even had airplane type technology...Hmmmmmm!

PS, Iwunder, u2u me or post about what it is that you want us to comment about the links you gave? What are you interested in our opinions about?

[edit on 19-11-2004 by Pepper]

Its not a secret, I was wundering how your faith accepts the new technological Interpretation aspect the site link suggests on biblical doctrines, primarily comparible to anomalies we se in our skies today that government passes us witnesses of unusual arial crafts and related events as cookoo for coco puffs!?

Does the LDS Community Support the Governments angle or lean towards the ufo technology aspect?

[edit on 11/20/04 by Iwunder]

If at all it was, it was in Egypt. I have a thread entitled Giza-What is the Egyptian government hiding, which somewhat discusses that without mentioning yet any connection to enoch, but will. For now, it was likely around the area of Naqada, the walled city. refer Gen. 4:17 And dig up some historical Hebrew and Sumerian texts.