Car Runs 1 Million Miles on 8 Grams of Thorium

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posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 03:24 PM
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rickymouse
So basically eight grams of thorium could also power a house for the rest of your life. Another gram could get some people through a life of traveling in a car, if they didn't abuse the fact.

It will not be allowed to be built at this time.


Do you have a solution for the municipal framework to come after energy needs are met and don't come at a cost?

How would you motivate the private sector to invest into space technology and colonization to avert population control laws? Would there even be a private sector? How about tax monies, would governments be a thing of the past? Surely if nobody has to worry about the costs of transportation and shelter, land will become the next commodity and the value of food will skyrocket.




posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Thorneblood
 


I did not know that!



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 04:21 PM
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For over 60 years Thorium dioxide was used in Colman gas lamp mantles.

you can still get higher then normal radioactive readings around old campgrounds.(1100-2100 CPM. )
io9.com...



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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Thorium is amazing fuel. Though its radioactive, it doesn't need as much protection as uranium needs. Basically its radiation doesn't even penetrate skin, but aerosols are dangerous. Also it cannot sustain chain reaction, the reaction can be stopped when wanted, instantly. Zero risk of meltdown.

There is also so much Thorium on Earth that its enough for hundreds of years, about as much as Lead. And it doesn't need enrichment as Uranium does.

And why we aren't using it? Simple, as it cannot sustain chain reaction, it cannot be used as nuclear weapons. And as its possible to make really small and lightweight reactors for it, oil heating and combustion engines would become useless. Oil sector doesn't want that.

It still produces dangerous by-products, but less longer half-life products like Plutonium, than Uranium reaction. Most of by-products are short lived.



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by BlubberyConspiracy
 


If this technology did get out, there would be a lot of people out of work.

I think some people will have this stuff in the future though, just not the general public.



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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Thorneblood
Isn't the DoD supposed to secretly possess Thorium Plasma batteries or some such thing? They got it from a russian scientists that went "missing"?


That was the next scam after the thorium laser. Add some sciency word after thorium and you've got yet another bit of juicy scam bait.

Here's your guide. Lasers and plasma are electron shell phenomena. It doesn't matter to the nucleus WHAT you do to the ionization state or electron orbital transition state. Nothing at all. About the only nuclear effect you can change by manipulating electrons is the rate of beta decay or inverse beta decay in some lab setups. You can't cause fission by lasing a fissile. You don't get extra energy in the output of a laser by lasing a fissile. It just doesn't care. Same with ionizing one and creating plasma. That's all electrons. The nucleus doesn't care.

But it sounds all sciency.



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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AliceBleachWhite
reply to post by trollz
 


As fantastic as this is, the general public uneducated and ignorant as it applies to the safety, handling, and hazard risks of radioactive materials will likely run around in circles flapping their hands in alarmist panic over potential Fukishimas driving all over the road.


In this case, (unusually), they'd be right.

Just think about the energy numbers.

If you're going to get a buttload of energy out of this 8 grams of thorium, you're going to get enough radioactive waste with a substantial energy flux as well. You will have plenty of hard gamma emitters under the hood.

A milliwatt of gammas could be quite unhealthy.



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by mbkennel
 


For your consideration: Thorium


Natural thorium decays very slowly compared to many other radioactive materials, and the ALPHA radiation emitted cannot penetrate human skin meaning owning and handling small amounts of thorium, such as a gas mantle, is considered safe.


What was that? Alpha radiation? hmmm.
What kind of shielding does one need for Alpha radiation?

Now, of course, that's Natural Thorium decay.

The article details something about creating a Thorium Laser, whatever that is, to drive a heat reaction which in turn powers a steam turbine.
I'm not going to pretend to know what that's all about, but, considering that Thorium is the base for the engine, and Thorium is the basis because of its relative safety such that it's been used in gas mantle lanterns with zero shielding for decades, I'm going to stick with my earlier statement.

But, wait.
What if this engine wasn't using Thorium, but, was instead an RTG, a Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator as I initially surmised, using, say, Plutonium-238?


In the past, small "plutonium cells" (very small 238Pu-powered RTGs) were used in implanted heart pacemakers to ensure a very long "battery life". As of 2004, about 90 were still in use.


Used inside the human body in pacemakers?

Interesting.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions.




posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


A byproduct of thorium is also radium 228 which gives off alpha AND gamma. Not to mention that with a little effort weapons grade uranium can be developed from it.



posted on Oct, 20 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


While that may be so, I'll suspend any alarmism until we have an actual working Thorium based solution we can poke at and examine in thorough detail.

Considering the already developed technology of RTGs using more energetic fuel sources than Thorium, were it legal, and cost effective, I'd personally, quite happily facilitate one for home power, with sufficient shielding, of course.

We are, however, talking about Thorium reactors, or engines, and there's actually quite a fair bit of research going on, especially out of China for development of the technology, as well as several differing methodologies and approaches to the problem with some that will certainly be safer than others, but, all in all overwhelmingly safer than current nuclear energy solutions.

Will we eventually have a vehicle-safe Thorium based power source?
According the article in OP, the kinks are still being worked out, but, we'll see.

Perspective; similar rhetoric as is being made against a Thorium solution, could easily be leveled against gasoline. Gasoline is volatile, explosive, the fumes toxic. Direct skin contact can increase cancer risk. Carbon Monoxide byproduct fumes can be deadly. Bombs can be made out of gasoline! The list of the dangers of Gasoline can go on and on.

Me?
I'm going to wait for this technology to do something, and as it stands, from the current view, it looks much safer, more versatile, longer lasting, with greater potential and sustainability than gasoline.




posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Weapons grade is U-234... and the Thorium is all lighter than that, it is lower down the chain. It is impossible to make weapons grade Uranium out of Thorium... Sir you know not of what you speak.


You do get nuclear transmutation under neutron bombardment, but the U-235 product would be tiny and you have little to no way of extracting it from the core of the breeder in any quantity. U-235 would be reacted away in such a reactor and processed into something else, the whole point of the thorium reactor is that you don't run into the same issues with criticality and sustaining a chain like in Uranium reactors.

Furthermore, you get alphas and gammas from many decays in the Uranium and Thorium series.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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put me on the waiting list - kinda makes my ford fusion hybrid - 50mpg on a 1200 mile trip - seem trivial ( ...and ya I still brag about it).



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by ErosA433
 


Thorium can be used to "breed" Uranium-233, which while not as good for a weapon as U-235, will work in one. Th-232 can absorb a neutron, and then become U-233.


Thorium (Th-232) is not itself fissile and so is not directly usable in a thermal neutron reactor – in this regard it is very similar to uranium-238. However, it is ‘fertile’ and upon absorbing a neutron will transmute to uranium-233 (U-233)a, which is an excellent fissile fuel materialb. Thorium fuel concepts therefore require that Th-232 is first irradiated in a reactor to provide the necessary neutron dosing. The U-233 that is produced can either be chemically separated from the parent thorium fuel and recycled into new fuel, or the U-233 may be usable ‘in-situ’ in the same fuel form.
Thorium fuels therefore need a fissile material as a ‘driver’ so that a chain reaction (and thus supply of surplus neutrons) can be maintained. The only fissile driver options are U-233, U-235 or Pu-239 (none of which is easy to supply).

www.world-nuclear.org...

U-233 isn't the most optimum material for a weapon, but it will work, and has been tested.

It's not the easiest thing to do, but it CAN be done, and you get weapons grade uranium out of it. And I always check before I speak.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by ErosA433
 


You do get nuclear transmutation under neutron bombardment, but the U-235 product would be tiny and you have little to no way of extracting it from the core of the breeder in any quantity.

This article agrees with you.


So if thorium would be a safe and abundant fuel source for vehicles, other devices and even power stations, why is it not being utilized widely?

Stevens, Hedrick and Bryan all have the same answer: After World War II, a strategic decision was undertaken by industrialized nations to pursue uranium-driven energy instead, because its by-product – plutonium – could be weaponized. By contrast, it is almost impossible to make a bomb out of thorium.
wardsauto.com...
edit on 21-10-2013 by intrptr because: link



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 


You're right, you wouldn't get U-235, you'd get U-233. While not optimum for weapons fuel, it is usable.


The piece highlights ways in which small quantities of uranium-233, a material useable in nuclear weapons, could be produced covertly from thorium, by chemically separating another isotope, protactinium-233, during its formation.
The chemical processes that are needed for protactinium separation could possibly be undertaken using standard lab equipment, potentially allowing it to happen in secret, and beyond the oversight of organisations such as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the paper says.
The authors note that, from previous experiments to separate protactinium-233, it is feasible that just 1.6 tonnes of thorium metal would be enough to produce 8kg of uranium-233 which is the minimum amount required for a nuclear weapon. Using the process identified in their paper, they add that this could be done "in less than a year."

phys.org...



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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www.epa.gov...
Before every one jumps on the band wagon . can you immange millions even billions of potinal mealt downs driving down your hiways every day



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


As fantastic as this is, the general public uneducated and ignorant as it applies to the safety, handling, and hazard risks of radioactive materials will likely run around in circles flapping their hands in alarmist panic over potential Fukishimas driving all over the road.

No, actually the "concern" is one of access to dirty bomb materials. And not by "circle flapping" consumers either.


...amid widespread concerns about terrorism, would governments allow scores of nuclear sources to roam the freeways? Processed thorium can produce uranium 233 as a byproduct. Would governments allow charging an electric vehicle using radioactive material in private garages?

“Nobody will allow that to happen,” Hashemi-Nezhad says.

link

Not because the mini reactors are inherently dangerous, because those with intent can make it so.



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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trollz
reply to post by Phage
 



this has worked in the thorium-powered 2009, Cadillac World Thorium Fuel Concept


What makes you say it didn't work?


You missed the "concept" part? This was covered a fuel few times.

Here's a comment from another blog post (the only people who really covered it because it was from press releases by someone probably trying to raise investor cap)


Wow, if you are forwarding Thorium Car nonsense this is perhaps the list time I visit this site. I certainly hope the people you quote as saying it possible were simply misquoted. Please, everyone realize this Thorium Car nonsense was just started by some idiot or scam artist because of some obscure scientific interest in a Thorium laser emission phenomenom with zero practical application. The other end of the spectrum is a full fledged mini nuclear reactor in a car which is just about equally as absurd.


thoriumforum.com...


Uh, did anyone bother to note that the CEO is already in major trouble with the SEC for a previous "too good to be true" scam...?


www.greencarreports.com...


And I kind of agree, without being able to confirm anything, why bother posting?





_

My rebuttal to anyone who says, "OMG Boncho you didn't even debunk it!"

Yeah, well, the guy never tried to prove anything. You can't debunk stuff that doesn't exist or have any action behind it, sorry!



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


Edit: I just read the article for more detail. I'd originally assumed they were taking an RTG approach similar the Curiosity rover. Seems they're attempting to create a Thorium Laser based engine to heat water to drive a turbine?

A boiling water or pressurized water reactor, correct. The same principle is currently used in Nuclear powered submarines. Except decay heat from uranium is used to heat water, not Thorium.


But there still is skepticism in the nuclear-energy research world about using thorium as a power source, especially in mobile applications.

Reza Hashemi-Nezhad, director of the Institute of Nuclear Science at the University of Sydney, Australia, says nuclear power plants already run submarines and could operate oil tankers, “but they are not small enough to fit in the boot (trunk) of a car.”

Thats because although the reactor itself might be scalable and reduced to "500 pounds", the rest of the apparatus required to safely contain it in case of emergency, like a 100 mile per hour crash on the freeway, for instance. Adding the mini turbines, drive motors, cooling return loop and heat exchangers would make it a beast of a steam engine.


“The issue is having a customized application that is purpose-made,” he says, admitting that developing a portable and usable turbine and generator is proving to be a tougher task than the laser-thorium unit.

“How do you take the laser and put these things together efficiently?” he asks rhetorically.

As someone else already pointed out, the efficiency experts are still at the drawing board.

link



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


You're right, you wouldn't get U-235, you'd get U-233. While not optimum for weapons fuel, it is usable.

More than a little effort would be required to refine the material, cast it into useable core elements of a nuclear weapon. However, enriched clouds of Thorium dust floating down main street would ruin things for everybody.





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