Mason Compass Symbol Baphomet Symbol When Turned Upside Down?

reply to post by Strollin

What we have here is a differing opinion or rather different use of descriptors. Most of us are saying the same thing with different words based upon our knowledge and understanding.

We've said we're not a secret society, but a private organization with secrets. Secret societies don't openly talk nor do they publicly display where their buildings are located. There's nothing wrong with secrecy though, I don't get why people have made it so taboo and associate nefarious activity with it.

Having a high IQ doesn't give any extra validity to his opinion as it is still just his opinion.

So what is a "lower grade mason"?

Pike himself said something about keeping the low grades ignorant of the true meanings,( not a direct quote ) in morals and DOGMA...

Actually he didn't. The quote your thinking of talked about how those who deserve to be misled will be misled. That degree teaches about the dangers of the ignorant and warns us against the oppression of tyrants and fanatics. It's extremely ironic that people misquote that particularly quote.

...and masons will argue that book is tantamount to their masonry.

That book is only relevant to Scottish Rite Freemasonry.

You seem to be under the false impression that only those who have attained the 33rd in the Scottish Rite are "high levels" when that is not the case. The Scottish Rite only goes to the 33rd, there's no degree beyond that. The Scottish Rite though is one branch, but people get tunnel vision or "deer in the headlights" syndrome and focus completely upon the Scottish Rite because they see a numbering system. It is one branch that has no authority beyond itself, just like every other branch of Masonry.

Pike doesn't ever speak of "controlling the light of lucifer".

doesn't matter that some of the masons still revere that baby sacrificing beast 666,, old holy Crowley...

Crowley wasn't a recognized Mason. His opinion regarding Masonry is as about as relevant as yours.

Doubt it , at least not within the Lower degrees( under 32) .

Having a higher number in the Scottish Rite doesn't negate or lower in value the other degrees. Highest above all is the 3rd degree and all Masons know this; the Blue Lodge is where the power lies.

Comparing Freemasonry to a hospital visit is like comparing apples and oranges.

Why would we need amnesty? We've done nothing wrong nor are we under any need to reveal anything more than we wish. Last time I checked we were a private group composed of free men who don't need to justify ourselves or the existence of our group.

Take a blood oath any masons? Taking a secret blood oath in order to conceal ?

We don't take blood oaths.

Any body who takes an oath in order to conceal with others is a conspiracy of the first order.

I promised to keep my word, but there's nothing wrong with keeping secrets nor is it tantamount to some criminal conspiracy charge for doing so. That's just ridiculous.

reply to post by KSigMason

Ok you asked for it, since there are times you masons just can't read or think like normal people and you wanna keep saying I said masons did or do this empirically ,and you keep wearing the shoe that fits , you think you have not had dissenters leave your precious masonry and you think you can get my goat;my dad was poisoned by nuclear waste they were dumping from a power plant inside Torrance unified school district very near his workshop where he worked, it was medically proven he was poisoned , so he sought a law suit , and that's then the troubles started , because evidentially some masons showed up at his work , yes he recognized some of them , they threatened him with great bodily harm , and the ruination of his career, even his coworkers some of who were also masons threatened him on a daily basis. Wouldn't you know they buried the lawsuit,but if you look up the relevant information I gave you can probably find something about it . He never fully recovered and ended up taking his own life due to his medical condition .
I have done everything I thought I could do to defend individual masons but you accuse me of not being able to interpret or hear the words come out of a masons mouth that he likes Crowley and goes in about how great he was. but says the same spill you did when I point out that is reported that Crowley sacrificed children and animals to summon demons. Nor do you have the foresight to ask how I know what I know ,or accuse me of not being able to interpret words in a book,here's a taste , now I'm a noob , so I don't know how to embed : sacred texts. Com .
Go there and read 90% there, it covers pretty much every religion ever practiced that the texts are available. I read it over about 2 yrs time, because much research was done to verify some of the texts validity . I stopped after reading most of what is there and found a lot of rhetoric so I continued on for a few more years with some pretty intense reading, now I also had a good base to start from, my dad started teaching me stuff esoteric in nature by the time I was forming sentences. So stick that in your high falutin pipe and smoke that,
I never claimed to KNOW, empirically what your brand of masonry Is but I'm getting an idea.
And those who deserve to be fooled should be huh? Explain to me why my disabled nephew deserves to be fooled? Or the poor to be tricked out of their money, or the patriot to be tricked into fighting wars , I could keep going but it would be hard to cover everybody, but just how would you explain it ? Come on bury yourself in your cave of self delusion an elitist attitude. Or are you going to give someone the benifit of the doubt that maybe I'm not one to be fooled so easily even though I'm not a mason???!

Clip-clop, Billy Goat Gruff.

Mind that bridge

Fitz

reply to post by Strollin

I can read rather well, but we're all human and capable of making mistakes.

I know that there are former or ex-Masons. I know a few who left personally for various reasons.

Yes, I'm sure your father was threatened by someone he thought was a Mason. I do love these stories that you are never capable of proving. I'm sorry to hear of his suicide, but this tragedy proves no wrongdoing of Freemasonry.

You clearly didn't read my post, particularly on Crowley. I never said he was great.

Honestly, you're knowledge seems very limited and you're just pulling all of your information from 2nd hand information. What 1st hand knowledge do you possess? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder and throwing your insecurity around at us.

I'm not talking about the disabled or the impoverished, but the ignorant and arrogant who are so deceived by their own ignorance that they believe mouth pieces and false propagandists. It's hilarious that you assume that I was referring to those; I'm not talking about real victims, but those who victimize themselves through ignorance, fanaticism, and hatred. And the irony builds up, "This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morissette had a baby and named it this exact situation."

Yeah, I'm totally elitist. Well, from what you've posted, I'm assuming you've been fooled about something.

Strollin

Let's get the the masons, gather up all 33* masons... and don't forget all their affiliates , like the... Scottish rite,

Wait a minute...

Your Dad was a Mason and you didn't know that 33° only belongs to the Scottish Rite?

reply to post by KSigMason


, never said YOU liked Crowley . And you want facts look it up . It's a matter of public record, and if you think I would give out pertinent information about my fathers identity? Or mine? Your trying to goat me

What proof do you have that masonry is the inventor of the ancient esoteric knowledge or symbols all over publicly viewable buildings of Masonic lodges,. Hell I can look a floor plans of Masonic designed buildings and see the symbolism like I was reading a book.
And my dad WAS a mason . And he said he did know the men as masons, but yeah that was hearsay. But not to me,he had no reason to lie about it.

Now while information seems to be second hand for you . Here some actual factual straight from the source .: I think your over your head when you insist on misinterpreting people's meaning or words, I think your just trying subterfuge on me, but by you and some of your fellow masons admission you think it is ok to fool people. And that is a fact . You can justify it for yourself, but Can you justify it for everyone's edification or just for those you deem as worthy of not being fooled . Or are you only able to destroy the truth for fools ? Are you not adept enough to teach them in the way to go? What exactly disqualifies any human to be denied correction in the proper ways?
You may read just fine but you fail to grasp the meaning of the words. Get off your high goat.
As a Christian I believe it is my DUTY to be my brothers keeper, and we are all brothers , having the same parentage .so Christians try to build everybody up, it's just to bad so many wolves have donned sheep's clothing and ruined the organizations of good men and women.
Now if some group of people ( not masons) were having secret meetings in a country that allows free speech, that allows peaceable assembly, that allows freedom of religion, all with a justice system and enforceable measures to ensure those rights , as reasonably as could be expected.
And said " organization" was found out that they occupy the highest offices in the world. And the very greatest evils that have occurred on earth for humans has been done by people in high offices , not that they were part of the aforementioned " dummy organization " but that now they are in this day and for hundreds of years hold positions in high office ,, and remember the greatest evils that have been committed have been by people in high places who kept secret their intentions or methods. You would be fully trusting of a secret organization wielding so much power? The FACT is I will never agree to that kind of situation, and that is not second hand info. And I'm not posting links cause I'm not your teacher but I could be your keeper,Besides if your too lazy to understand to go and look at what is freely offered information that is out there that detracts from YOUR information , you just don't see the mountains of apparently slanderous material out there,now why do you think that is , cause masons as whole are being attacked, why do you think that is? Is someone got a secret network trying to take down masonry? Or is there actually a paper trail. If you looked you probably would be amazed, and again it's out there. For free, no initiation.
And since I don't know you but I love you and care for you , if the shoe fits wear it , but if it don't then speak your peace and be done with it , are your secrets worth that much to you that you guys won't say , ?that's dedication. Personally if I was being thrown under the bus I'd spill it that it was not me they were looking for and give them undeniable proof. It's simple I got on this thread because of the ridiculous incongruities of the statements being made here and was at least willing to build people up, but you just keep tearing yourself down in my eyes because you fail to grasp the noose around your neck, because like Christians and Muslims and other religions ,and organizations like masonry is being used as a scapegoat by people in high office, people are playing the fools yet each thinks they got all the answers they need to succeed . And that's why I think you guys need to be a bit more transparent about your intent, so you could hear the billions of voices that just might have something to say about it. They may not want you there ( holding positions of high office). And if you could please explain to me the facts on why you ask for direct evidence when you can provide none but your INTERPRETATION. And why do you think I need to prove any of my information to you if I've convinced myself? And are you implying masonry is the the root if all things esoteric? Do you not believe that the spirit can guide those who ask for guidance. Cause the Christians have a thing called the Holy Spirit . And I can prove scientifically that the spiritual exists, as well as scalar waves or the theory of e=mc2 can be proven , that is with the same validity( or perhaps even to the point of non-dispute) While I'm sure you've been TAUGHT SECOND HAND some truths specific to you,, you by your own admission is that your belief is that you can justify placing your beliefs , that were GIVEN TO YOU UPON INITIATION UPON OTHERS TO FOOL THEM. What in your belief system proves FACTUALLY that I'm wrong for my beliefs. Cause you say. Or your books say?
And what gives you the audacity to think that when your lies affect the fools who are parents of disabled but not the child. Don't you get it ? When you hurt people they are not the only ones affected. You are displaying the absolute perfect form of sociopathy , but hey that just my opinion of the, FACTS.
I don't care if you think me a fool, it's your right. But I don't know many people who have been asked to join the masons , I have,for displaying the depth and drive to understand esoteric philosophy, but hey you'll just say its hearsay, so what .

You also should realize you just outed that one of your organization's tenets of belief is to be liars. On a public forum. On the Internet , you got a lot of sand. And probably have done more for the cause to discredit your organization than any detractors. Good one. I tried to help you keep your honor but I can do no more to help at this time. It seems Jesus was right, it is up to oneself to achieve salvation , through faith in what's true .

And if you were an esoteric person to begin with you coulda just read the bible and received enough knowledge to be supplicated and you wouldn't have joined the masons , again my opinion . It's your opinion that matters to you. And I support that.
Be true thine own self . But It is dishonest to place yourself above someone else to their detriment just cause you or your organization's benefit.

So once again, WHAT ARE THE FACTS THAT PROVE IT IS OKAY TO LIE TO ME OR ANY OTHER???!!!!.

reply to post by Saurus

How did you understand that I didn't know? I listed no other signifiers to 33* but also listed all that all masonry to be questioned up to the 33* And I was in know way trying to affirm that I'm an expert on masons , I'm not one , but Scottish rite was listed. But thanks for boning me up . By the way you outa pat your buddies for starring you up , way to stick together.

Strollin
As a Christian I believe it is my DUTY to be my brothers keeper...

It is statements like this that show exactly what is wrong with the world. If someone wants your help they can ask for it. People like you are exactly why I am not a Christian.

And said " organization" was found out that they occupy the highest offices in the world.

...

and that is not second hand info. And I'm not posting links...

You mean you cannot post links because you have none.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


What do you interpret as being my brothers keeper?, this in no way means to butt into people's personal lives, but hey if you don't want me to tell you your fixing to trip and fall down some stairs I'll refrain from warning you. I can't help it if your Masonic lies have infected people's lives and they turn into pushy nosey people. Sorry what? Don't like the turn around? Tit for tat now.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Oh and if you didn't read before in an earlier post I DONT KNOW HOW TO POST LINKS, but I'm sure you know how to google right? Type in " Masonic conspiracy " I'm sure something will pop up to edify your curiosity. Also I'm on my phone not a desktop, I got things to do . But this was an interesting thread. So I'm keeping with it.

Strollin
I can't help it if your Masonic lies have infected people's lives and they turn into pushy nosey people.

Just what the world needs, more pushy, nosy religious zealots.

Strollin
Oh and if you didn't read before in an earlier post I DONT KNOW HOW TO POST LINKS...

Sure, convenient excuse. Makes it easy to do your drive by posting and not have to back up your comments with any type of evidence. Lying for Jesus is always fun to watch.

reply to post by Strollin

Which buildings are you referring to as "Masonic designed"?

I'm just pointing out what I know to be true and what was posted by you and others that I know to be false.

As a Christian I believe it is my DUTY to be my brothers keeper, and we are all brothers...

Except putting out false information is not a part of being a Christian.

I do love your hypothetical, but the analogy fails to capture Freemasonry as the greatest evils have no been perpetrated by us. Plus, I don't care about what if's like that you try to describe. What if you spent all of this time talking about hypotheticals and defaming a group, then when all came to light you were in the wrong? You would have just oppressed and harassed the said group for no reason.

You wrongly assume that I have not researched Freemasonry or that you're the first one to come here and put out false information. Trust me, hoss, this isn't any of our first anti-Mason rodeo. I did research before I joined and I continue to research. I have books upon books, and I don't have enough shelfs for them all; my computer houses thousands of files regarding every aspect of Freemasonry to include conspiracy theories and anti-Masonry. I am very well aware of the defaming material out there, but abundance of material does not mean it's true; a popular lie is still a lie. Often most conspiracy theories are based on false, manipulated, or fabricated material; much of it has been debunked, but it is still used and recycled. The internet has given the ignorant, the paranoid, the fanatical, and the fascist a new realm to harass and attack their victims. If anything, Freemasonry is the antithesis of what it is accused of.

My rights are worth it. I will not yield my rights to satisfy the ignorance and/or hatred of others. I'm also a man of my word and integrity actually means something to me.

I do realize that Freemasonry is being blamed shamelessly by propagandists, and that's why I'm on sites like this countering the lies and false information.

As I said before, we should not give into the ignorant, the fanatical, or the fascist because they will never be satisfied and I would never give up my rights to placate others. It would be a compromise of our values and giving into terrorist demands. Those who stand adamently against Freemasonry are a tiny minority.

And why do you think I need to prove any of my information to you if I've convinced myself?

Seriously? If you don't have proof then it's just hot air, pure conjecture, not fact.

And are you implying masonry is the the root if all things esoteric?

Nope.

Do you not believe that the spirit can guide those who ask for guidance. Cause the Christians have a thing called the Holy Spirit.

I never made any such inferrence. I'm Christian too there pal.

While I'm sure you've been TAUGHT SECOND HAND some truths specific to you...

Except I've also done research and I have first hand experience in many bodies of Freemasonry.

And what gives you the audacity to think that when your lies affect the fools who are parents of disabled but not the child. Don't you get it ?

No, you don't get it. When I said those who deserve to be misled will be misled, I wasn't talking about victims like you described, but those who through their own blind ignorance (hatred, arrogance, jealousy, fanaticism, etc) are misled into believing the lies held against Freemasonry. This situation is just getting more and more ironic as you are personifying the very lesson that I takled about. It's absolutely hilarious. You're getting butt-hurt over your ignorance of what I said. LOL

But I don't know many people who have been asked to join the masons...

You don't invite or ask someone to join. Some jurisdictions allow it, but most don't allow it; you can be expelled for doing that in my state.

You also should realize you just outed that one of your organization's tenets of belief is to be liars.

I never said such things. Now you're lying.

It seems Jesus was right, it is up to oneself to achieve salvation , through faith in what's true.

Was there doubt of what Jesus said? I thought you were Christian. Plus, what does this have to do with Freemasonry? Nothing in the Fraternity detracts from that. Also, it's not through just faith alone.

And if you were an esoteric person to begin with you coulda just read the bible and received enough knowledge to be supplicated and you wouldn't have joined the masons , again my opinion.

Unlike many of you, Freemasonry doesn't force me to split and divide. I am both a Christian and a Mason; there is no conflict with one another.

reply to post by Strollin

Yes, because everything on the Internet is correct.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I love, it's our fault they are nosey. Blame the victim, that's a good tactic.

reply to post by KSigMason


I love all your editing .and sound bite clips , you guys really are good at purposefully twisting things , bravo ,
First off let's address something I have repeatedly stated, I am opposed to secret society members OF ANY KIND being in charge of world affairs and government. And you instantly went on attack , I have made no accusations but the one for which I apologize for , I felt that I should give as good as I got after this statement was made

Strollin
As a Christian I believe it is my DUTY to be my brothers keeper...


It is statements like this that show exactly what is wrong with the world. If someone wants your help they can ask for it. People like you are exactly why I am not a Christian.

This was posted by www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I apologize for my retort but I refuse to be not insulted

reply to post by KSigMason




You said; Except putting out false information is not a part of being a Christian.


What false information ?
Then you say;
Seriously? If you don't have proof then it's just hot air, pure conjecture, not fact.


And I say what proof you got? You dodge and dodge but you failed to show proof or links to your set of asserted truths ,
But really what else is their to be said except that you MIGHT say : I do realize that Freemasonry is being blamed shamelessly by propagandists, and that's why I'm on sites like this countering the lies and false information.

Really,, a shill?, I just was looking to see what some picture was supposed to look like

You also did a nice little piece of sound bite by completely putting my words in my mouth, and claiming false allegations . You nor none of your buddies have answered the question: do you agree that it is ok to have the highest political/ government offices being held by secret organizations ? I made no inference to the fact you seem to think I'm railing against freemasonry , you ASSumed way to much and you're over-reaching by displaying sociopathic behavior by your accusations and demand for proof of my sources and I told you TYPE INTO GOOGLE " MASONIC CONSPIRACY" to show you that you had detractors,who claim evidence against masons,,,
But that is their evidence , not mine , I have not compiled evidence against masons , I just looked it over for a year or two . I am not on an assault against masons nor have I blamed them for anything , you did that bit ASSuming for yourselves.

but you want a link? Here figured how to do it on my phone;

en.m.wikipedia.org...

That ought to bring to light the fact you have evidence against you masons

Now you and your buddies keep attacking me with twisting of my words , but it doesn't change the fact you won't answer the question? Do you think secret societies should occupy the highest seats in government?
And why do you seem to think I'm implying I'm talking about masons , BUT THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION I POSE. I thought maybe some parts of masonry were secret oath taking secret society but I was corrected with this statement ; We've said we're not a secret society, but a private organization with secrets

Now do you claim to speak for all lodges ? And all grades? Are the masons of your lodge occupying the highest seats of government? How do you know masons aren't occupying those seats?
Make sure to post all your links please concerning your ASSertstions . Otherwise it's just hearsay and hot gas right? Or are you guys the head masons voted to speak for all masons?
Speak for yourselves and let the blame fall on truth. I don't pretend to defend christian religion , just Christians . And oh yeah we don't have votes to decide who gets to speak their beliefs, they are clearly spelled out in the bible. In my OPINION .

If you can find an empirical statement other than the one I've already apologized for that blames Freemasons for perpetrating evil then show me , without bit clipping me or twisting the truth. And trying to use the bit about my dad won't work I've already admitted to hearsay. But how did you learn from others? Did they say and you believed or did you doubt.
Personally I doubt you guys have ability to recognize your not the cream of the crop. You speak of equality but separate yourselves. Not cool in my opinion. And don't think your the only ones ,

You keep downing me so I bring you down to my level but I THINK i would have to stand downhill to be eye to eye with you.
I don't know you and you don't know me , so why did you get personal ? And lie

You said:
I do love your hypothetical, but the analogy fails to capture Freemasonry as the greatest evils have no been perpetrated by us. Plus, I don't care about what if's like that you try to describe. What if you spent all of this time talking about hypotheticals and defaming a group, then when all came to light you were in the wrong? You would have just oppressed and harassed the said group for no reason.

I in no way implied that masons were guilty , you took a hypothetical question , refused to answer it, and the put your feet in , and took perfect liberty to infer for YOURSELF THAT THE HYPOTHETICAL ORGANIZATION THAT SECRETLY RULES THE WORLD.and if the shoe fits. But it don't does it ? At least for you, unless you're not as ignorant as I THINK, and you really are smart enough to pull that off.???
Why do you assume that when people talk of such conspiracy at THE TOP, we are talking about little ole you. GeT over yourself. And know your place. You don't even know who I AM , so please back off the personal slander and libel . And answer the question , DO YOU THINK THAT A SECRET SOCIETY SHOULD HOLD THE HIGHEST OFFICES OF GOVERNMENT? Why can't you answer that very simple question , it requires no proof just your HONEST opinion . Why why why , huh?
And I'm done till tomorrow possibly because it's late.

double post - please delete

reply to post by Strollin

You are putting out false information that I identified in this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

You do need to realize that the burden of proof lies with the accuser (you), not me. You made several false statements that I responded to in the above link, but even in that you did not provide any evidence to back you up. Your post that I responded to had no links so why should I provide them? As you said to us before, look it up.

A shill? How original.

Please cite where I put words in your mouth. Last I checked, you were the one putting words in my mouth when you said "one of the tenets of Freemasonry was to be a liar" which is something you still haven't proved I said in the first place. So please keep telling me how I'm putting words in other people's mouths. God, you're a hypocrite.

You nor none of your buddies have answered the question: do you agree that it is ok to have the highest political/ government offices being held by secret organizations ?

I don't care as long as they do their job. Being part of a private organization like Freemasonry has no negative effect on their performance in their position. Nor does Freemasonry have control over what we do in our daily lives and jobs. No body of Masonry or officer therein can come and tell me how to perform or make decisions for me.

Yeah, with your polite posts, how could I conclude that you favor Freemasonry.

Laughable.

I told you TYPE INTO GOOGLE " MASONIC CONSPIRACY" to show you that you had detractors,who claim evidence against masons

If this is your evidence then hold on while I fall over laughing. There is so much false information out there, but if you want to do lazy man's research and using this search criteria is nothing more than confirmation bias.

Here's some links for you:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

masonicinfo.com...

masonicinfo.com...

www.mastermason.com...

If you want specifics look at Grand Lodge websites.

That ought to bring to light the fact you have evidence against you masons

Do you really think I don't know the # said about us? We're not the thought police nor should give away our rights and give into outrageous demands to placate the ignorant.

Now do you claim to speak for all lodges ?

I've been to many Lodges and most operate in the same manner, and I have a strong knowledge of Masonic operations around the globe.

And all grades?

I am a member of several Masonic bodies so I'm familiar with them from research and first hand experience. Those I'm not a member of I still research extensively.

Are the masons of your lodge occupying the highest seats of government?

The Governor of Idaho is a Mason. I know the Sheriff of my home County is a Mason. I could keep going, but none of them have done anything wrong nor has the fraternity caused them to compromise their values to act in a particular way. Nor have you proven that being in a private organization like the Freemasons causes corruption or nepotism.

How do you know masons aren't occupying those seats?

Not really concerned about it, but I could find out fairly easy as the Grand Secretary of my state is a member of my Lodge.

Or are you guys the head masons voted to speak for all masons?

Well, I am the presiding officer of my Eastern Star Chapter and my Knights Templar Commandery so I can speak on behalf of them.

I don't pretend to defend christian religion , just Christians.

Strange. I'd rather defend the former rather than the latter. Many "christians" have seem to forgotten the compassion taught by Christ and have replaced it with extremism and militancy. I'd rather defend the tenets and lessons taught by Christ.

Did they say and you believed or did you doubt.

Trust but verify.

You keep downing me so I bring you down to my level but I THINK i would have to stand downhill to be eye to eye with you.

So it's okay with you to make up a hypothetical, but I can't? Suddenly you can infer all you want, but I can't?

And know your place.

You don't know where I sit within Freemasonry.

EDIT: Also, why is it you demand I answer your questions, but you haven't answered any of mine?

edit on 22-10-2013 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Strollin

How did you understand that I didn't know? I listed no other signifiers to 33* but also listed all that all masonry to be questioned up to the 33*

Easy - you used a conjunction in your sentence. The use of the word "and", as in "33° Masons and Scottish Rite Masons" makes them mutually exclusive. Since the rest of your grammar is fairly sound, I can safely assume it's not a language problem. Hence my conclusion that you did not know that only Scottish Rite Masons can be 33°.

Strollin
DO YOU THINK THAT A SECRET SOCIETY SHOULD HOLD THE HIGHEST OFFICES OF GOVERNMENT?

They already do. They're called government. It's not as if you can walk into the Whitehouse and listen in on the President's meetings. Most of the decisions happen behind closed doors.

And most of you anti-Masons are selective when coming to secrecy. Do you think a priest could hold a high office in Government? After all, he knows many, many secrets that he will never reveal. What about a monk in a private order? What about a school's old-boys club? Mine restricts admission and much private business is conducted at meetings (unlike in Freemasonry, where I don't do business.)

Michael Aquino, a self confessed Satanist held a colonel rank in the National Security Agency, but I don't hear anyone take down the army for that. He's only a Satanist. At least he's not a Freemason!

Who cares which society a government official holds in his private life? In fact, if a government official belongs to any society that prizes honour and virtue above the external privileges of rank and fortune, I would much rather see him in office than someone who isn't. At least his character was the determining factor of his admission into the society in the first place. Someone who is not in such a society has not had his character tested.