Are Americans Acting Like Hitler?

reply to post by beezzer

beezzer
War is supposed to be terrible. War is a disgusting exercise. Drones make war clean and hands free.

I agree.

Drones are as dishonourable a weapon as IEDs and should be ostracized.

I propose we return to warfare by swords and shields. Seriously. That was an appropriately bloody craft. Lots of first hand "human intelligence gathering" too.

Hey adolf you have a good point. I wonder if the court you finally end up in, will accept the ` I was only following orders `. It sure didnt work when you tried the real hitlers. So I guess no one will be surprised when a drone or what ever, arrives to take you to see the great spirit in the sky. It wont matter what excuse you give, you elected them and financed every drone attack. Without a doubt you are all guilty. (As am I, a brit) We have the same puppets in power here, committing similar war crimes.

reply to post by Xtrozero


The people that voted in Obama did not know that he would be involved in this non partisan atrocity. So they did no wrong in that respect.

So now we know though..... Now what? Should we allow this to continue because fighting this takes too much time away from our football games and facebook activities? If someone says, oh I willl not make a difference, how will you know unless you try? It takes just that right magical moment in time for the idea to click with the right person that could help us. I would like to find out who this person is.

reply to post by elouina


It's nice to see you legitimately upset with our President.
Drone warfare is not okay. Warfare is not okay.
Many, many people are upset with Obama's war policies and the increase in authority here at home during his Presidency. This is the ultimately failure of what having just a two Party system has brought us. Instead of keeping Obama in check by drawing the public's attention to these issues we got manufactured outrage and crises one after the other. To a significant degree the Dems failed similarly with GW Bush, whether by fear of the backlash of the heightened nationalism after 9/11 or not, they failed the People... and the GOP fails us now. Instead of talking about drones and the NDAA, we got to hear about birth certificates, secretly being muslim, being a marxist or communist, orchestrating or negligently allowing Benghazi to happen and all manner of other nonsense. The voice of opposition is supposed to help keep two sides in check. Fail.

When the peoples voice was raised in protest of these policies... the GOP told America that Liberals were being too hard on the President. Much of wars are ultimately about corporate profit, but again when the people demanded we stop putting corporations before the people, the GOP and media wanted to talk about mentally ill people pooping on cop cars.

I am still utterly amazed and so proud of we the people, that we were able to stop a headlong charge into Syria... we need to look back on that (as if it happened years ago, lol) and remember that we stopped the BS train dead in its tracks. We can do it on other issues too.

SF.

redhorse
reply to post by elouina

 

I understand the shock when you think someone who is decent turns out to be... well not. However I think you need to take a deep breath. Obama is not so great, but the world is not crumbling. I know that it is popular to think of Americans as a population that is sitting on a couch somewhere buried in Doritos with their heads turned to mush by reality T.V., and I suppose for some of us it is true. But I for one have been surprised by the surge in interest and activism in the last four years or so. In truth, it began before that, during the economic melt down. People are trying to make their voices heard, even about the drone attacks that burst your bubble. There have been protests and rallies regarding this very topic all across the country, even in D.C.

It is admirable that you are trying to move people to action, but using "shock factor" to try to jar them out of complacency rarely works. Righteous, sanctimonious finger shaking works even less. Sure it feels good for the person on the soap box, but it rarely changes hearts and minds, or even gets those who agree with you to do anything but get defensive. So... instead of sitting on here castigating the entire population, maybe you should take the productive step and do something yourself. Organize a rally maybe.

Good luck.

edit on 19-10-2013 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-10-2013 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

No I am not on a soapbox thinking that I am any better than the next person. I am guilty! Never before have I even imagined that us American citizens could be indirectly responsible. And I wanted to share this realization with others that may also not have been aware.

Wait here is a good example. Say some collgege staff realizes that a football coach is sexually abusing children. But then they look the other way like it never happened. Can the entire college be held liable? Well this has been answered already in Scranton PA.

Sure there have been some small rallies, but never one that is substantial. What we could really use is some rich donor to buy some ad space to get the word out. I bet there are even millions of people in the US that aren't even aware that we use targeted drone killings in the first place.

The world is not crumbling? You are absolutely correct in this statement. The US is crumbling...

elouina
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

The people that voted in Obama did not know that he would be involved in this non partisan atrocity. So they did no wrong in that respect.

So now we know though..... Now what? Should we allow this to continue because fighting this takes too much time away from our football games and facebook activities? If someone says, oh I willl not make a difference, how will you know unless you try? It takes just that right magical moment in time for the idea to click with the right person that could help us. I would like to find out who this person is.

So how about the second time he was voted in? I give you the first 4 years as an excuses, but come-on....

Xtrozero

elouina
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

The people that voted in Obama did not know that he would be involved in this non partisan atrocity. So they did no wrong in that respect.

So now we know though..... Now what? Should we allow this to continue because fighting this takes too much time away from our football games and facebook activities? If someone says, oh I willl not make a difference, how will you know unless you try? It takes just that right magical moment in time for the idea to click with the right person that could help us. I would like to find out who this person is.

So how about the second time he was voted in? I give you the first 4 years as an excuses, but come-on....

Was word about the targeted drone killings common knowledge during the last election? I was giving people the benefit of the doubt. I thought all the news media hoopla was near the end of the first quarter of 2013? Or am I wrong about this? But still have you ever heard the phrase, "blinded by faith"? Or was it just bribes... You know blood money. Perks to keep the massses happy so they don't notice the blood stains on the carpet.

reply to post by elouina


peta slaughters 25,000 dogs every year.

ethical my @$$

Thank you elouina for every single word you've put into this thread! The more you write and challenge others, the more I think YES!

I'm not an American, but lived in California during my teen years, in what most people would call luxury. I've been back in Europe for 24 years now, and I can tell you this: Europeans are no different. I have witnessed our lifestyle becoming very close to yours, in just 2 decades. My point is that the apathy towards war in far away countries has everything to do with the culture of money, fame, entertainment, etc. Me, me, and me (iPhone, iPad, iMac...) The only difference between Americans and Europeans in this regard is that Americans were ahead in the game. But we here in Europe have cought up now. The west has sold it's soul.

There is much talk in the responses here from people who feel they are not in the least responsible for what our governments do. Regarding this, 1930's Germany is an excellent comparison. After the war, the German people said "We didn't know!" Well, whether or not they did, WE DO KNOW! Thanks to Wikileaks and other whistleblowers.

What you are doing with this thread is exactly the kind of responsibility we can take as an individual. All we have to do is speak up about it. Imagine if every single citizen of western countries did exactly that. Why is it so hard for so many people to see that? Because they only care about their own comfort zone. It really is as simple as that.

Another thing we can do besides speaking up about it is dump all unnecessary luxuries and show others that they can still be happy without them, yes, probably much happier. That's what I try to do. My wife and I both work part-time by choice. We have time for our 3 young children. We bought an old house and fixed it up because it has a soul. We buy almost everything 2nd hand. I focus on things made out of natural materials like wood and stone, instead of plastic. These things are high quality, they last, and nobody wants them anymore which also makes them inexpensive. But when people come to our home, they look around in amazement and tell us how homey and warm the place feels. Yet their own homes all look exactly the same. Same style modern kitchen, same trendy furniture, same modern lighting. To me it all looks sterile, like nobody lives there. So why do they want to live like that? They don't! They only want to belong and they've sold their soul for that. And in 5 or 10 years time, their trendy houses will be outdated and look cheap. Music is another good analogy. Most of the music made today is crap, and forgotten about as soon as the next one-hit wonder comes around.

Sorry to get a little off track. I'm just trying to show that we can easily make choices that don't feed the system and mentality that is killing all the soul in this world. But it's not enough because too many people are too weak to dare stand away from the herd. Maybe the only thing that can help them is shock-therapy, like you are so wonderfully using in this thread.

I want you to know how much I appreciate what you are doing here, and will personally up my own game in this fight. There is just no other option. My main goal in life is to help counter the downward spiral that our children's future is in, with however tiny part I am playing. And as long as I don't see that happening, I will not rest in peace.

Thank you!

soulwaxer

Tardacus
Americans today are just like the german people in the 1930`s and the second world war.
people are just happy that the government is killing someone else and not them to try to stand up to the government could land you in jail or worse.
It won`t be the SS knocking your door down in the middle of the night but it might as well be, the consequences will be the same.
just like the german people of the 1930`s,the american people see what their government is capable of and have decided it`s best not to make waves and draw attention to themselves.
As long as the government is busy killing other people the american people are relatively safe from their government.
I wonder how history will judge america and it`s war on terror?

There are some of us who are speaking out. Not everyone is bamboozled by our current administration.

We who speak out are called horrid names by our own President and worse names by our mainstream media.

You have a point of American's being afraid. FEMA camps and the knowledge of them is deeply intimidating. Our President's kill list is also intimidating. The TSA, IRS, homeland security have become the equivalent of the SS harassing and intimidating Americans who dare to speak up.

Someone on ATS even asked me if I didn't realize the things I was saying could lead to me being "suicided"? I answered that someone has to speak up and take the risk. So even on ATS we are being threatened. My responses on ATS only call for change through the vote, speaking up, no violence, no call for violence of any kind. Yet someone felt the need to tell me I could be "suicided" for advocating change in our government through the vote

Yezhov, head of the NKVD executed in 1940 i014.radikal.ru...

reply to post by elouina

"Every government has had to silence citizens from time to time. " So you think killing citizens is ok then?

Depends on who the person is and what they have done.

buster2010
reply to post by elouina

 

"Every government has had to silence citizens from time to time. " So you think killing citizens is ok then?

Depends on who the person is and what they have done.

If I am hearing this correctly this premise is absolutely sick! So you feel that it is entirely ok to kill Americans without a trial or jury? So what if the executioner is wrong about what the American has done? And do you feel the US should just kill all Americans that have committed a crime and save us the tax dollars?

One last question... Do you feel that the US regime can also kill off their opposition to silence them?

elouina

Perks to keep the massses happy so they don't notice the blood stains on the carpet.

People want something for free, Obama offers that, but it is not free and people seem to ignore it will cost them dearly in the end. Obama's used drones well beyond Bush's intent within a very short period of time in his first 4 years, so I think people just believe the lies and think all will be good as if by magic the Government will provide all they need without them lifting a finger.

As a fan of sci-fi what I find disturbing is the parallels to George Lucas's Galactic Empire and our own government. Obama is very much like Palpatine in that he wants control of a vast Empire and does not care what he has to do to maintain control of it. Oh yes, the power of the Dark Side is pervasive in our government and just like the Star Wars saga I see a possibility of the remnants of the Old Republic being swept away. How true are these words?

Fear will keep the people in line.......

America has once again been suckered by a man in a 5 thousand dollar suit. America is just as gullible as can be, infected by amnesia. So sad.
tsk tsk tsk

Most people are decent and just trying to get by and survive. The people that are in power are the ones that are twisted and sick, driven by greed, and power hungry. There is nothing that the average person can do about it, either.

veranda
Most people are decent and just trying to get by and survive. The people that are in power are the ones that are twisted and sick, driven by greed, and power hungry. There is nothing that the average person can do about it, either.

Most Americans are NOT decent. sans ethical adequate is better.

Most people would keep their mouth shut and look the other way instead of "speaking out" at work when the boss does something shady or not on the up and up. Or an employee has to SHAFT someone else as part of the job. (many examples of these careers)

veranda
There is nothing that the average person can do about it, either.

And thus why the murder continues.... If the average person does nothing, then who will?

Our elected representatives are too busy plotting their next election. Although there are some who actually do care. Rand Paul is one of them and has been getting a lot of negative PR lately. You know why? Because he is the one person that could change things for the better. Just take a look at everyone that has been smeared the most and then look at what they stand for.

reply to post by elouina


El, I am an average american.

Why did you not respond to me - someone who is trying to make a difference.

Ignoring those of us who try and lambasting "everyone" does nothing to motivate more and more to try and change, they throw people like me into a why try, no one (even those asking us to) will listen.