A Tyrant's Dream: Congress Cedes Control Of Federal Debt

A Tyrant's Dream: Congress Cedes Control Of Federal Debt

It seems now, the President can (and will) raise the debt limit any time he wants to.

Many questions as to *WHY* this was allowed by Congress ?

Maybe our 'friends' in Congress are really our 'enemies'.

It may expire, but think about the possible damage.

As if that damage isn't already a huge problem.

Who is doing this ?

It can't really be Americans ... can it ?

But perhaps there are some *Limits* anyway.

The bargain rushed through Congress on Wednesday night clobbers the U.S. Constitution. It shifts control over the debt ceiling from Congress to the president, in violation of Article 1, Section 8, and pushes the nation toward a slippery slope of allowing the president unlimited power to borrow.

Article 1, Section 8, states that "Congress shall have the Power To lay and collect Taxes ... to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; . .. To borrow Money on the credit of the United States ... "

Until 1917, the president had to ask Congress' permission for each borrowing and frequently acquiesced to conditions. That year, Congress devised the debt ceiling, which gave the president flexibility to borrow up to a certain amount in order to fund a world war.

Will Obama succumb to his inner demon temptations ?

Very Dangerous indeed

Revealing Story here;
A Tyrant's Dream: Congress Cedes Control Of Federal Debt

reply to post by xuenchen

It seems now, the President can (and will) raise the debt limit any time he wants to.

Many questions as to *WHY* this was allowed by Congress ?

That question has to be posed concerning the last 50 years and every president in office. Anything else is bipartisan nonsense.

I actually favour Republican thinking, however, I don't favour Republican politics. Nor Dem politics, in fact... Any time an issue gets politicized it stops being an issue and becomes a talking point.

I suppose this is going to continue on the same way (raise limit,
borrow till its full, repeat) until a complete collapse caused by
something else.

It is my understanding that the debt could never be paid. If there
was no debt then there would be no money. So in order for there
to be more money for a growing population then there has to be more
debt.

The fact that this is getting depicted as some sort of mistake that
one party or another fights for the opportunity to fix or blame tells
me that either non of them understand the issue (unlikely) or the
issue is being used to make drastic changes constitutionally that
would normally be balked at.

Time will tell but I doubt we are too far off course from where the
people that fought to keep the central banking alive, want us.

Thanks for that article. Now I can tell my friend what the reason was for the presidents evil, glaring look when he answered NO to a reporters question if the country was going to go through all this again in 3 months. This country is lost.

Oh cheer up people, maybe there really is a fleet of inter-galactic warships on their way to Earth and Obama is just building up the defense system necessary to protect the country. Every major world power (or at least a good number of them) are all facing financial difficulties.

Of course they could also be quietly building up the prisons and cyborg police forces necessary to control a population of 7 billion effectively.


There has to be a better reason then Food Stamps right?

reply to post by xuenchen


This is akin to giving an out of control spendaholic a credit card without any limit and telling them they have to give it back next year. Congress couldn't see a problem with this?

Oh yeah, I'm sure Obama knows how to be reasonable with this *wink, wink*.

Bassago
reply to post by xuenchen

 

This is akin to giving an out of control spendaholic a credit card without any limit and telling them they have to give it back next year. Congress couldn't see a problem with this?

Oh yeah, I'm sure Obama knows how to be reasonable with this *wink, wink*.

So who is at fault then?

The borrower? or the credit issuer?

Central bank governors are not elected. That to me is a big issue. These people are supposed to be the smartest economists in each nation. If they were so smart they would have seen this coming.

The banking business seems to be hands-off for the political leaders. There only job as far as the economy goes is to appoint the right (as in toe the line right) people for the key positions. All the hustles that the political body have going on is with defense contractors and medical suppliers and others that lobby the elected government with talking points that they can take to the house to convince them that it is in the peoples best interest to ask the bank (da boss) for more money. Is the central bank using it's wise expertise to examine the nature of the loan for potential risk? No! they are sitting there with their pen in hand waiting for your call.

If any business were to operate that way it would sink. It is like the employees telling their managers what they need money for so their best customers (the ones the employees make the best return on) are happier, and the CEO just signs the cheque, no question. I give that business a year unless it had an unlimited credit card like the US has enjoyed for far too long.

*Throws hands up*

Game over

Im gonna go watch tv, or does the president get to tell us all when to do that too?

Nephalim
*Throws hands up*

Game over

Im gonna go watch tv, or does the president get to tell us all when to do that too?

Lol. No, the people that told everyone who to vote for president are the ones that are going to tell you when to watch what. Unless you have a PVR... awesome little devices.

MALBOSIA

So who is at fault then?

The borrower? or the credit issuer?

First off I'd say the big spender is at fault followed by the idiots who gave them the credit card. In this I do not hold the bank responsible.

Central bank governors are not elected. That to me is a big issue. These people are supposed to be the smartest economists in each nation. If they were so smart they would have seen this coming.

They are not the smartest economists in the nation as demonstrated by their abysmal track record. The Feds QE program is a perfect example followed by Bernanke's famous quote "We really don't understand gold."

Is the central bank using it's wise expertise to examine the nature of the loan for potential risk? No! they are sitting there with their pen in hand waiting for your call.

Not my call but I get what you mean and rest my case.

I give that business a year unless it had an unlimited credit card like the US has enjoyed for far too long.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

I think this has been filibustered and not passed. maplight.org...
Good thing. I would hate to think one part of one third of our system of gov't could not use crashing the economy as leverage to extort minority ideals. Our democracy is still safe. Sleep well!

Bassago


First off I'd say the big spender is at fault followed by the idiots who gave them the credit card. In this I do not hold the bank responsible.

I agree but I just don't think we can fix this by scolding the spenders. It would be more just. We should be responsible for our own actions after all, but I think that trying to stop spenders at this point would be like trying to stop buffalo heading for 'Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump' (that's a real place btw lol)

Housing is priced not to what the market could afford to save, but instead what it can afford to borrow. So unless we make borrowing to an extent illegal, then the market will always be too expensive for saving.

I'm with you though. I'm 33 and I rent because I cannot bring myself to sign the papers at a bank. I know what it means to do so and it makes me physically ill. I worry if I am going to be able to save enough in time and the more time goes by, the farther out of reach a home, near employment becomes and the more likely I am going to be retiring some place quite rural and unincorporated.

As much as I would like to see the herd move in the right direction, I think we would have better luck if we teach the wolf to roll over. As crazy as that sounds.

skeptichaun
I think this has been filibustered and not passed. maplight.org...
Good thing. I would hate to think one part of one third of our system of gov't could not use crashing the economy as leverage to extort minority ideals. Our democracy is still safe. Sleep well!

It's in the passed and signed version.

Complicated but....

H.R.2775

reply to post by Thorneblood


Honestly i say bring on the cyborgs so we can break out of this rut
the entire planet seems to be in. It's gotta be better than this
slow death spiral.

bloodreviara
reply to post by Thorneblood

 

It's gotta be better than this
slow death spiral.

I think it will. You have to hand it to greed and capitalism though... We have learned a lot in the last hundred years. I'm not sure if we would have got this far without this capitalist competition. Maybe it was necessary. Maybe this infectious greed was the only thing that could advance us quick enough to acquire what technology we need to survive. I don't mean to sound too much like Gandalf, but perhaps this evil has some part to play in making it to the next level.

The game was over when Congress ceded the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof. Everything else has been meaningless since.Furthermore, the fact that a 435 member panel delegated the responsibility to a third party should be considered an egregious dereliction of duty. In essence, they have pretty much said that the responsibility was too difficult for their 400 plus members to handle. Therefore, they've pawned off the duty to a third party influenced and controlled by who knows who. The truth gets stonewalled at that point through some quite interesting legal justifications. There are those that say, through research, they know exactly who influences the Reserve, but I don't think we're getting the whole story because of the legal stonewalling. Much like the information classification system we have in place in regards to national security.

Since Bush junior there's been a push for this thing called the "Unitary Executive".
Which is a nice way of saying give the President all the powers Congress used to have.
Since Obama can now send the military to war anytime and do his own spending there's no need to pay Congress any more, that's for sure.
It's just streamlining the process so whoever picks the Prez can get what they want done more efficiently.
We're no longer marching towards a new world order, we're on a forced run.

reply to post by xuenchen


You know, the debt is pretend.

I think its just a scare tactic they use to induce fear. They can control us by threatening default if we don't play their game.

But, seriously. The Federal government prints x amount of treasury bonds and trades those treasury bonds for Federal Reserve notes--that they also printed. Then they promise to pay themselves back the Federal Reserve notes and proceed to charge themselves interest, hence all of the "debt." Right?

Well, sort of. Except that, the Federal Reserve is not "Federal," and is actually a private bank. So, the Federal government prints x amount of treasury bonds that they use to exchange for x amount of Federal Reserve notes that are lent to them from JP Morgan and Chase. Then JP Morgan and Chase charges the Federal Government interest for using the notes, under the assumption that every dollar ever used will be payed back, with interest. So our government owes a bank money.

The part that gets me is that Congress has the power to print our money. We can easily tell the Federal Reserve to piss off, and Congress can simply pick up where they left off and continue printing our currency debt free. Because, in reality, there would be no reason for the Federal government to charge itself interest.

It's a joke, and it gets funnier.

If the debt is not valid, and is actually just smoke and mirrors, you're not allowed to question that fact:

Amendment XIV
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

The validity of the public debt...
shall not be questioned.

I mean, if I were trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, and convince them that all this debt is valid, I certainly wouldn't want them questioning it's validity.

Because it is a joke.

And every single President since Woodrow Wilson has been in on the joke. Every single one of them.

The fact that a puppet can raise a fictitious ceiling for an invalid debt is just smoke and mirrors. Obama is just dancing because his strings are being pulled by the people that run the Federal Reserve.

It is chicanery and nothing more.

And you guys wonder why the stenographer went off?

Listen, I was wondering a few things last night,
How many paper shufflers and pencil pushers and aids see what goes on behind closed doors in congress and how many have you heard say anything negative about how our country has been run?

Do you know of any?

You know those lawmakers are nasty to the bone and you know someone knows the truth, but no one divulges any information.

Decades if little eyes and ears that say nothing?

How can that be?

Have they been hypnotizes?

Do they take a oath of silence under penalty of death?

xuenchen

skeptichaun
I think this has been filibustered and not passed. maplight.org...
Good thing. I would hate to think one part of one third of our system of gov't could not use crashing the economy as leverage to extort minority ideals. Our democracy is still safe. Sleep well!

It's in the passed and signed version.

Complicated but....

H.R.2775

So is this the part that spells out why the president told the reporter that there will be no repeat of a show down with congress on a government shutdown, while having that evil look of contempt?

" (Sec. 1002) Default Prevention Act of 2013 - Allows the President, within three days after enactment of this Act, to certify to Congress that absent a suspension of the public debt limit, the Secretary of the Treasury would be unable to issue debt to meet existing commitments. Suspends the debt limit for the period beginning on the date on which the President submits to Congress such a certification and ending on February 7, 2014.

Increases the debt limit, effective February 8, 2014, to the extent that:

1.the face amount of public debt obligations and those whose principal and interest are guaranteed by the U.S. government (except guaranteed obligations held by the Secretary of the Treasury) outstanding on such date exceeds
2.the face amount of such obligations outstanding on the date of enactment of this Act.

Excludes an obligation under the first clause (above) from being taken into account unless its issuance was necessary to fund a commitment incurred that required payment before February 8, 2014.

Establishes procedures for congressional disapproval, by enactment of a joint resolution within 22 days after receipt of a certification by the President, of the exercise of authority to suspend the debt limit under this Act. Includes in such a measure an alternate debt limit suspension period. Provides for expedited consideration of such a joint resolution in the House and Senate."
thomas.loc.gov...:HR02775:@@@L&summ2=m&