No, America is not a Christian nation

FreeMason

Does your History Textbook say that Jesus Christ was claimed to be God as the Son of God in a Holy Trinity of the Father, the Son and the Ghost?

Or does it say Jesus was a "teacher"?

Because I have a 1970s History Text book that defined Jesus as a "teacher". How pathetic. Especially when Matthew 8 said "The people were amazed for he spoke as one with authority and NOT AS A TEACHER."

Jesus does not belong in any Textbook.

In God we trust?



Which God?



I guess where I come from, we're not "Christian" either...

reply to post by TheTalentedMrBryant
The majority of the "Founding Fathers" were deists. There is the Jefferson Bible, President Jefferson cut out all the direct quotes of Jesus, and throw away the rest. There were Quakers (Society of Friends), Catholics, Puritans, Anglicans, etc, present at the Continental Congress. Among the influential individuals were non-believers, try reading Thomas Paine and the numerous pamphlet writers. The Founding Fathers wanted a "moral" nation, governed by honest men with principles(as in ethical). The rights concerning religion were for the individual to decide the individual's beliefs or guiding principles. It give no rights or privileges to any religion, in any manner. Read President Washington's letter to a Jewish Congregation. They wanted and foresaw a nation governed by ethical and honest men, leading an ethical, honest, and hard working population.

reply to post by Grimpachi

I think perhaps people should stop for a moment and remember that the reason we have such freedom in our lives is becouse of Christianity , true Christianity went through its dark ages but great goodness have come from it. One only has to look at muslem run countries to see how much freedom we have been given. All im saying is remember where our freedom comes from, and we should as a people fight to keep the freedoms. No religion should rule a contry but we should be proud of who we are.

reply to post by JNathanK

In the end, Ayn Rand(yes, I have her collected works among others) is just another philosophy like the Communist Manifesto, Rosseau, etc, to be read, considered, and used to form a personal philosophical system of belief and personal/public behavior. Unfortunately a number of people, including most politicians, turn these informational guide posts into authoritarian directives or demands for everyone, but themselves. Ah, for the days of Congressmen getting arrested for swimming in a public fountain with their mistresses, but keeping the Nation running.

Damn straight the US is a christian countree
lets see...
Nazi germany was 56 % protestant, 40 percent catholic
(oh, it was the pagans stuffing those poor jews into those gas ovens.....)

the U$ has troops where and has invaded how many countries lately?
makes the old christian krauts look positively benign

reply to post by NuclearPaul


yep...
"our lord Amen " is a direct reference to the diefied first pharoh of the united Egypt...
and xians don't even know who they are praying to

imod02
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I think perhaps people should stop for a moment and remember that the reason we have such freedom in our lives is becouse of Christianity , true Christianity went through its dark ages but great goodness have come from it. One only has to look at muslem run countries to see how much freedom we have been given. All im saying is remember where our freedom comes from, and we should as a people fight to keep the freedoms. No religion should rule a contry but we should be proud of who we are.

We can be proud and still be truthful. No our freedom does not come from Christianity. I have no idea where you get that idea from. If Christianity meant freedom there would have been no need for so many to flee their countries for the America's to escape religious persecution.

As far as comparing us with Muslim countries I do see some comparisons. Did you know Iran used to be pretty progressive I have seen photos of the 50s and 60s where their culture looked much like ours. Pics of them at the beach with beautiful women in swimsuits but the fundamentalists took over. The Christian fundamentalists are trying to take our country over as well now. Not only would they do away with many freedoms but things like abortion they wouldn't stop with just outlawing it they would also make miss caries a prosecutable offense. There are already casses of just that in the states in places like Mississippi or Missouri. Just look at El Salvidor or Honduras women are being imprisoned for just that. They happen to be Christian nations. Sorry but Christianity does not equal freedom.

reply to post by imod02

I think perhaps people should stop for a moment and remember that the reason we have such freedom in our lives is becouse of Christianity , true Christianity went through its dark ages but great goodness have come from it. One only has to look at muslem run countries to see how much freedom we have been given.

Have we so swiftly and eagerly forgotten the woman who declared that our nation "cannot serve two masters"? Christianity is all about sycophancy and self-denigration and eagerly licking the boots of the guy who promises you the most favors in return for the sacrifice of your dignity and self-respect. Your pride is God's pride in himself. Your purpose is his purpose in himself.

What we are talking about here is a religion where we by ourselves have no definition and no value and no hope. That is exactly what slavery is. Freedom? What freedom?

reply to post by Pejeu


Yes there is actually. You still don't believe freedom and liberty are real? I assure you, they are very real things that happen through us all inherently. Just by being alive. They are not provided by Government nor any army, nor any police force. They are protected and restricted by them but we ourselves do not create these things in any man, woman or child, nor any other thing in nature.

AfterInfinity
Envisioned as a religious nation? That's a very strong possibility. Envisioned as a Christian nation? Not necessarily. And that's the issue, isn't it?

Yes, that's it. Everything points to this. The people who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were dealing with the Church of England at the time. They were trying to make sure no one could have a religion forced on them. Which is what seems to be happening in this country.

CryHavoc

AfterInfinity
Envisioned as a religious nation? That's a very strong possibility. Envisioned as a Christian nation? Not necessarily. And that's the issue, isn't it?

Yes, that's it. Everything points to this. The people who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were dealing with the Church of England at the time. They were trying to make sure no one could have a religion forced on them. Which is what seems to be happening in this country.

edit on 26-10-2013 by CryHavoc because: (no reason given)

So you think christians are forcing christianity on you? Do you have a religion or none at all?

reply to post by Nephalim
The sheer number of "christian" television and radio programs, and station presents evidence of some christians pushing an agenda. Further, there are politicians using christian morality and the ten commandments to justify their political actions and agendas. That some of these politicians are just Hitler wantabes using a cover to pursuit their own personal goals is possible. But, it is a small group compared to the amount of hot air thrown up to justify a return to "Christianity" by the government. The other choices is all these christians are hypocrite with a hidden agenda of remaking the U.S. after their own image and fantasy or these are all sincere believers wanting to impose their version of morality upon everyone else.
For the record, I attend a Unitarian-Universalist Meeting.

Nephalim, I believe Christians are in fact trying to force their religion on me. When they try to take away my right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, that is forcing their beliefs. When they continuously try to impede the rights of my fellow American's due to their sexual orientation, that is forcing their beliefs on us. When politicians are getting huge donations from mega churches in order to push their "special" interests, they are forcing their beliefs on our nation!

Now of course there are many groups that do all these things that are not Christian, however that isn't the focus of this thread. I was raised in the "Church" and from an insider perspective, they absolutely do tell every member of their religion, every guest who visits the church and anyone else who will listen, that America is, in fact, a Christian Nation! They start this indoctrination in Bible class for the kiddies as young as 2 and 3 years old. It continues through Youth Group, sending these kids on "Mission Trips" all over the world in order to convert the heathens. These kids are having it "put on their hearts" that it is a cause worth putting their lives in danger for, just like Jesus did.

I remember a story my youth group was told about a teenage girl who was attending a Christian service that was being held in secret (because of course Christianity was against the law) somewhere in South America. During the service military troops stormed in and threw a painting of Jesus on the ground. In order for the people to be released they were paraded past the painting and told to spit on it or they would be shot on the spot. Many of the people did just that, except for the teenage girl who knelt down beside the painting and with tears in her eyes and love for Christ in her heart, she used her long hair to wipe the mucous off of her Lord's face... with that action her life ended in a hail of bullets. Of course we were told that she is now in Heaven sitting at the right hand of Jesus, a rich reward for her sacrifice of love!

This was a "normal" Evangelical church, no snakes in the service, no seeing stones giving prophesy, no comets bringing the rapture... just your average, born again, Spirit filled Christian Church. I truly believe that left unchecked, the Christian Right could be downright dangerous. Actually, any belief system that feels they are completely right and everyone else is wrong and are willing to sacrifice their own lives (jobs, friends, even family) for the "good" of their system of belief. Hence, our Founding Father's desire to create a Nation FREE from any one religious ideology!

Just my $.02

reply to post by IrishCream


The founding fathers were religious. Just not exclusively religious. That is to say, theirs was a blanket spirituality, an all-welcoming brand of open-heartedness that fostered connections to all who were willing to be a part of their movement. You could be a nihilist and they would have shaken your hand and offered you a drink.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by IrishCream

 

The founding fathers were religious. Just not exclusively religious. That is to say, theirs was a blanket spirituality, an all-welcoming brand of open-heartedness that fostered connections to all who were willing to be a part of their movement. You could be a nihilist and they would have shaken your hand and offered you a drink.

edit on 26-10-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

So kinda like me huh. I read somewhere a little while back that some folks wanted a law or an ordinance passed that says you cant buy a beer on Sundays. and I thought.. wtf? Really? Now.. I used to drink lol I can put a sixer down. I wont lie. I let it go as Ive said. But years back, you get a game going on Sunday and If I wanna drink a beer, dammit I'm drinkin a beer and watchin a spiral fly.

My thing isn't that I cant buy a beer on Sunday, its that someone thinks they can tell a whole city or even a state that they can't buy a beer on Sunday. I'm not havin it. That sorta stuff is messin with commerce, its messin with someones personal choice and its not right in my mind. If it were up to me, hell you could not only grow what you need to make beer, but you could build the equipment you need to brew it, can it/bottle it and put it on the market and that store could sell it till 12:00 that night if they chose to. Heck , you guys are talking to someone who doesnt believe we should have to pay property taxes.

None of it is up to me though is it. and I believe in god. Go figure.

AfterInfinity, that was basically my point, it was just not made as eloquently as I had hoped (Saturdays are kinda chaotic around here).The Founding Fathers saw a need to be free of ALL dogma, which is why we/they fought to relinquish America from the Church of England or any specific religious hyperbole. Any belief that is taken to zealous extremes is dangerous and Christianity, far too often, is taken to extremes. Thus we have people bombing abortion clinics and "protesting" at the funerals of service men and women. Christians believe that they hold the one and only key to eternal life, they are right and EVERYONE else is wrong... there is no room for debate. Therein lies the danger.

Not to say every Christian is completely closed off from discussing issues or opening themselves up to new or different ideas. However a lot of them are not, such a large percentage actually that if they had their way, we would be seeing stonings in the street, crucifixions in the squares and public baptisms in the parks. And Nephalim, forget about beer on Sundays, or Mondays or the rest of the week, it would be wine for special occasions and religious theatrics, end of discussion... unless you're Catholic

All in all, I couldn't care less what gets you through the night, that is between you and your maker. When you start infringing on my inalienable human rights, that's when I take issue. It seems that the fundamentalist Christian right wants to change the way America views Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness so that it embodies the doctrine of their belief system and they continuously refer to our Founding Fathers as a way to do that.

In conclusion, "No, America is not a Christian nation"! I agree wholeheartedly with the OP!