No, America is not a Christian nation

reply to post by signalfire


Your right! No one is persecuting me. I am not a Christian, I am not a Republican, and I am not a Democrat.

I am just a simple human being whom wants a chance to live my life as a free human being! I want to be LEFT THE HELL ALONE and to live my life without hurting others and without those others telling me how to live my life...............

Legally speaking, I am have anti social behavioral problems! Wonder why?

It's a simple concept!

Natural rights include the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of "happiness" (doing what you want to do in life, choosing your own path). These are rights you are born with, not given to you by the government, king or dictator. If you choose to believe these were not given by God (and this is not limited to the christian god), that is your natural right. These rights cannot be taken away even if the PTB say they can.

The writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and those who signed it, were mostly Christians. But they considered these natural rights to belong to all "men", regardless of their religious beliefs.

I know a lot of people do not read links. I have been guilty of it at times but here is an example of why this is an issue. Though I wish it wasn’t.

Rick Santorum’s speech at the Values Voter Summit this past weekend is an excellent example of the form. He delivered an inane, inaccurate lecture about the French revolution, describing it as doomed from the get-go because the revolutionaries believed in “equality, liberty, and fraternity,” which he contrasted with the Americans who supposedly believed in “paternity,” i.e. the theory that rights come from God. Rick Santorum debated the long-dead French revolutionaries, assuming that the word “fraternity” was an attempt to avoid admitting there was a God and then blaming everything bad that happened to France since then on its secularist government.

......break.....

Second of all, by claiming that rights come from the god of fundamentalist Christians, conservatives can simply dismiss the idea that the rest of us have a right not to have their religion imposed on us. Santorum was very clear on this point, angrily railing that the secular view of rights meant that while Christians are allowed to go to church, they are prevented from imposing their views on others. Since rights come “from God,” in his view, an employer who believes in that God has a right to toy with a woman’s insurance benefits to try to stop her from using contraception. The “rights come from God” argument is used to distort the very idea of religious freedom.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Our country was founded on Christian principals. It is completely accurate to say that our rights come from God, as did the founders believe, though the revisionists on the left would have you believe that the founders thought up the Constitution during a late night soiree at an out of the way bath house or bed and breakfast. The separation of church and state was intended to keep the church from influencing policy and to promote religious tolerance. The Bill of Rights was added to insure that government had no charge in these rights, that they would be protected and inalienable. If the left does manage to curtail or destroy the first amendment, all the rest will fall.

Magister


The writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and those who signed it, were mostly Christians. But they considered these natural rights to belong to all "men", regardless of their religious beliefs.

Right....

unless you were black or native American; then all bets are off....

reply to post by Grimpachi


Politicians and religious charletons preying on gullible people? Religion's revising history?

It's been going on for 1000's of years so I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that it will never change.

It would be sad to see the false prophets get any level of control US.

reply to post by Grimpachi


So what are you trying to say? Another government crony using the name of God, or the faith of Christianity to better his political career????

My God man, any Christian whom believes a word that comes out of ANY politicians mouth, needs to take a look in a mirror and re evaluate their faith!!

My ire towards your OP is strictly towards your apathy to lump everyone whom has a certain belief into ONE category!

But then again, the government has proven that by separating us and dividing us into "categories" that they gain more power over us.

reply to post by Magister

The writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and those who signed it, were mostly Christians. But they considered these natural rights to belong to all "men", regardless of their religious beliefs.

Actually, they were not. Most of them rejected key details that all modern Christians will accept without hesitation and consider crucial to the faith.

You know the fight over the omission of the word "God" from the pledge of allegiance? Did you know Francis Bellamy's original version didn't include the word "God"? Which means we're not fighting to restore its originality. We're fighting to amend the pledge.

The word "we" being used rather loosely, of course.

Grimpachi
I know a lot of people do not read links. I have been guilty of it at times but here is an example of why this is an issue. Though I wish it wasn’t.

Rick Santorum’s speech at the Values Voter Summit this past weekend is an excellent example of the form. He delivered an inane, inaccurate lecture about the French revolution, describing it as doomed from the get-go because the revolutionaries believed in “equality, liberty, and fraternity,” which he contrasted with the Americans who supposedly believed in “paternity,” i.e. the theory that rights come from God. Rick Santorum debated the long-dead French revolutionaries, assuming that the word “fraternity” was an attempt to avoid admitting there was a God and then blaming everything bad that happened to France since then on its secularist government.

......break.....

Second of all, by claiming that rights come from the god of fundamentalist Christians, conservatives can simply dismiss the idea that the rest of us have a right not to have their religion imposed on us. Santorum was very clear on this point, angrily railing that the secular view of rights meant that while Christians are allowed to go to church, they are prevented from imposing their views on others. Since rights come “from God,” in his view, an employer who believes in that God has a right to toy with a woman’s insurance benefits to try to stop her from using contraception. The “rights come from God” argument is used to distort the very idea of religious freedom.

I'm guilty, I have only read what you have posted. It is obvious that there is some word manipulation going on here, as I am quite certain Santorum did not say Christians should have the right to push their views on others, most likely he said the employer should have the right to decline paying for something that was against his religion. Abortion is against my religion, but I would become a party to it if I had to pay for it- this is wrong and it does violate my rights (the inalienable ones that God gave me).

onthedownlow
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Our country was founded on Christian principals. It is completely accurate to say that our rights come from God, as did the founders believe, though the revisionists on the left would have you believe that the founders thought up the Constitution during a late night soiree at an out of the way bath house or bed and breakfast. The separation of church and state was intended to keep the church from influencing policy and to promote religious tolerance. The Bill of Rights was added to insure that government had no charge in these rights, that they would be protected and inalienable. If the left does manage to curtail or destroy the first amendment, all the rest will fall.

Why don't you list some of those Christian principles for the rest of us?
I'll start:
-killing infidels & heretics
-dominion over everything you can shake a stick at.

seeker1963


But then again, the government has proven that by separating us and dividing us into "categories" that they gain more power over us.

The government?

From my perspective we do a damn fine job of dividing ourselves into categories with out government intervention.

We are still a primitive tribal species afraid of anything that is different from our own narrow viewpoint.

olaru12

Magister


The writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and those who signed it, were mostly Christians. But they considered these natural rights to belong to all "men", regardless of their religious beliefs.

Right....

unless you were black or native American; then all bets are off....

Or a woman, or of non-British decent, or poor, or you know anyone other then rich, white, land-owning men.

reply to post by seeker1963


The article is on political ideology’s hence the reason it is in this forum. Ideologies have been divisive long before you or I have walked these lands. The issue is some extremists are trying to re-write the history of this nation to conform to their religious beliefs.

Should everyone just keep quiet about it and let it happen or drag the issue out into the light for everyone to see what it really is. A power grab.

Well I will not look the other way but good news is I am not making anyone read these threads either. You may not like my threads but at the same time they were not made specifically for you either and you are free to make your own on the subjects that interest you. I did.

InverseLookingGlass

onthedownlow
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Our country was founded on Christian principals. It is completely accurate to say that our rights come from God, as did the founders believe, though the revisionists on the left would have you believe that the founders thought up the Constitution during a late night soiree at an out of the way bath house or bed and breakfast. The separation of church and state was intended to keep the church from influencing policy and to promote religious tolerance. The Bill of Rights was added to insure that government had no charge in these rights, that they would be protected and inalienable. If the left does manage to curtail or destroy the first amendment, all the rest will fall.

Why don't you list some of those Christian principles for the rest of us?
I'll start:
-killing infidels & heretics
-dominion over everything you can shake a stick at.

I can only assume that you have heard of the Ten Commandments? How about the Constitution- "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America". "Blessings of Liberty?" It doesn't sound secular.
The Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

reply to post by onthedownlow

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

What page is that on, in the Bible? As you say, these are Christian values. They originated with the Christian religion, right? So which page can I find it on?

reply to post by Grimpachi

The article is on political ideology’s hence the reason it is in this forum. Ideologies have been divisive long before you or I have walked these lands. The issue is some extremists are trying to re-write the history of this nation to conform to their religious beliefs.

Should everyone just keep quiet about it and let it happen or drag the issue out into the light for everyone to see what it really is. A power grab.

Well I will not look the other way but good news is I am not making anyone read these threads either. You may not like my threads but at the same time they were not made specifically for you either and you are free to make your own on the subjects that interest you. I did.

With that being said, does common sense not show you that "political ideology" is the root of our problems??? Why attack one who believes different than you do?

Does that NOT create a tension and put that person on a defensive stance????

I know you are intelligent enough to see through it. That is why I made the comments that I did.

Working "TOGETHER" is how we solve problems. Making everyone whom doesn't have the same ideology as we do, does nothing more than MAKE OUR PROBLEMS WORSE.........

reply to post by Grimpachi


Honestly, I tend to take everything I read as fact in our history books with a grain of salt. Much seems to be inaccurate or gets "revised" too often. The victors write history and that's all I need to know.

I think a discussion on whether this nation is a christian nation should have ended long before the federal reserve was inacted because from there on in we became a nation of greed and intolerance, opposite of what christians proclaim themselves as. If people want to be christians, more power to them but trying to identify oneself as this or that is what gets us into trouble to begin with.

So very primative...

reply to post by seeker1963

Working "TOGETHER" is how we solve problems. Making everyone whom doesn't have the same ideology as we do, does nothing more than MAKE OUR PROBLEMS WORSE.........

Why would you want to work with sinners? Aren't we the problem?

I can agree that the U.S. is portrayed as a christian nation. After all, a large majority of citizens are christian.

Personally, I don't understand why religious people claim that our "rights" in our country come from god. Technically, there is nothing that is a "right." It's simply just something we humans have came up with. It's make believe in a sense. And god had no part in creating it. The people who created our nation nearly 250 years ago did.

If our rights came from god, then why did we end up having to amend even more rights than the first 10 we had? I guess god forgot to abolish alcohol, but then changed his mind, I guess he just forgot slavery, and I guess he just forgot to let women be able to vote with men.

It's easy to see that this is human planning, not god by any means. Not to mention other countries have a list of their own rights for their governments. And some have either more or less than the original 10 we have. So why would god bother giving other countries more or less rights than another? Like I said, humans created rights, not god. This can explain why everything was done sloppy.

And it's sad to say that religion does have a large role when it comes to electing our government officials. God has been beat into our heads all of our life. Just look around. We hear "God bless America" all the time. It's a popular song in sports openings. Our currency has "In god we trust" on it. Our PoA has the words "Under god" in them. And kids in schools usually have to recite that daily. And even when we go to court, or when a president is sworn into office, they are given a bible to swear an oath on.

It's almost like your SUPPOSED to be religious in order to be an American. I guess you can say I'm an atheist, and atheist are one of, if not the most hated group in America right now. I have yet to see any kind of politician run for office that is openly atheist, or any other minority religion in the U.S. At least not in a more important government office position. Most politicians that are not Christian actually act like they are in order to gain more support. Since most people are indeed Christian, they can identify with them more. And people want to elect people that support their ideals.

The same goes if that same politician is gay. Many, many politicians who are gay shield it from the public. Because homosexuality is rather frowned upon in the U.S. And it also goes against the religious teachings of the majority religion. So they can't afford to lose their highest demographic of people.

Personally, I do not care what religion our leaders may be. As long as they do what they're supposed to do, I'm happy. It doesn't take a religious person to create honest, fair legislation. I just takes someone who is smart and determined.

I've just been growing wary of politicians who are Christian that make decisions based on their beliefs. A few prime examples would be the issue of abortion, and same sex marriage. And usually politicians make a big scene when it comes to topics like this that are touchy to their faith, and usually rather argue about that, rather than things that are more important.

So I say believe what you want, just don't bring your beliefs into the board rooms with you. Because after all, these are only your BELIEFS, that require FAITH. If you want to be religious, knock your self out. It won't be difficult to go to a church, or temple to satisfy your religious needs. Just don't let these things effect your decisions that effect us citizens.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Why would you want to work with sinners? Aren't we the problem?

I think the more important question is, "Whom amongst us is without sin?"!