No, America is not a Christian nation

It’s common to hear conservatives say things like Paul Ryan did during the campaign: “Our rights come from nature and God, not from government.” Liberals shrug most of the time when they hear such rhetoric. It sounds like an empty platitude, much like praising the troops or waving the flag, that makes audiences feel good but doesn’t actually have any real-world importance. What liberals don’t understand, however, is that what sounds like an empty platitude actually signifies an elaborate, paranoid theory on the right about sneaky liberals trying to destroy America, a theory that is being used to justify all manner of incursions against religious freedom and separation of church and state.

The Christian right theory goes something like this: Once upon a time, a bunch of deeply religious Christian men revolted against the king of England and started a new nation with a Constitution based on the Bible. Being deeply religious fundamentalist Christians, they intended for their new society to reflect Christian values and the idea that rights come from God. But then a bunch of evil liberals with a secularist agenda decided to deny that our country is a Christian nation. Insisting that rights come from the government/the social contract/rational thinking, these secularists set out to dismantle our Christian nation and replace it with an unholy secularist democracy with atheists running amok and women getting abortions and gays getting married and civilization collapse. For some reason, the theory always ends with civilization collapse. The moral of the story is that we better get right with God and agree that he totally gave us our rights before the world ends. Insert dramatic music here.

None of this actually went down that way, but there are Christian right revisionist historians who are pushing this claim hard. David Barton is a major advisor to all sorts of Christian right figures and he has long promoted the completely false theory that the Founders wanted something very close to a Christian theocracy. Indeed, in their desperation to make people believe what simply isn’t true, activists on the right have even gone so far as to try to push Barton’s lies about the Founders into public school textbooks. The notion that America’s founders believed rights come “from God” goes straight back to Barton’s making-stuff-up style of “history.”

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If Christian fundamentalists manage to get their way and convince the public that rights and the US constitution come from god then it will be that much easier for them to strip every right away they don’t like that isn’t in the bible. I read something along those lines a while back for pertaining to the revolutionary war. Hey the bible wasn’t against slavery and pertaining to now it sure doesn’t advocate for equal rights especially not for women. This entire push to re write US history portraying us as a Christian nation is nothing but counterproductive.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Who cares????

Seriously? I guess if you consider yourself a Christian, then maybe you would care, but really, who cares????

Can we all just do what is right for a change and not do what is wrong????

Seriously dude, your obvious hatred for those whom consider themselves Christians is getting really tiresome.

I am NOT a Christian, but I do take offense at those whom are so insecure with their own beliefs that they constantly have to bash those whom don't believe as they do!

Get over it! We are all human beings stuck on this God forsaken piece of rock! We can either learn to get along, or learn to hunger for the divisiveness that your OP suggests..............

Which is it? Learn to get along? OR Learn to Hate each other for our differences?

I think the Founding Fathers were right in saying that we are endowed with certain rights by your Creator. Or in other words, born with rights that cannot be taken away.

Life

Liberty

Pursuit of Happiness

Doesn't matter whether you personally believe in God or worship a non-Christian god or no god at all, those rights are universal.

As far as us being a Christian nation, I can agree with what you said. The US was designed to respect religion and protect your right to practice whatever you choose. It was not designed to uphold any religion or to recognize a particular religion as a "state-religion".

reply to post by seeker1963

Who cares????

People care when politicians are being voted in because of their religious views instead of their political views.

reply to post by Grimpachi


You may be right but you could be dead wrong . I have never know a politician to have compassion or morals .But then again I don't know many politicians .We do know from history that there was a Christian influence in some of the original settlers but we also know that there were some that were not .It seems like a hard thing to pin on Christian influence but if the whole thing comes crashing down ,which seems likely ,I will be one of the first to say we had nothing to do with it . some how I am partial to the duh creature feature we have now ...peace

I think you are missing the important part of it. Whether it comes from god, nature, unicorns..... The point is it does not come from the government. Your own personal beliefs on where it does come from is up to you and whatever you believe.

reply to post by buster2010

People care when politicians are being voted in because of their religious views instead of their political views.

You forgot to mention, politicians views on immigration, wealth status, etc etc......

Using politicians to say what is right or wrong is about just as blind as saying prostitutes know more about our economy than our politicians do.....

What team do you belong to?????

reply to post by seeker1963


Most prostitutes probably do know more about the economy. They at least have to live in the real world, and balance their budget

I wish all these people would be forced to actually sit down and read something else for a change; specifically Joseph Atwell's theory that Jesus was an invention of the Roman Flavius Caesar family to pacify the Jews. The 'historian' Josephus was a Jew who teamed up with the Flavians to write prophecy to coincide with already-occurred history (to make it look like what was prophesized came to pass) and from then on, apparently wrote the Gospels. He makes an excellent case that the whole messiah thing was a giant psy-op.

I just had to bite my tongue for the nth time today with an old woman I work for; she's the most nasty, judgmental 'christian' I've ever met. Not only are gays and atheists disgusting to her, but today's discussion was how Unitarian Universalists (my mother's church for 70+ years) is a 'cult'. Also Thomas Jefferson's church, but hey, they don't teach that little detail in the backward 'christian' church she attends. Mostly, they seem to spend a lot of time telling each other authoritatively 'what god wants you to do' and wondering passively why so many bad things have happened to them and the people they know. Of course, the good things are 'miracles'...

I don't think I'll ever understand the religious mindset. It seems to be based on fear and an utter lack of curiosity about the world. Or are these people just kinda dumb?

Funny how they never read any of the real writings from about 2000 years ago. This 87 year old woman had never heard of any Caesar besides Julius, or Plato, or Pliny the Elder...she has no understanding of real history and what she considers to be a full understanding of fake history.

reply to post by signalfire


I wouldn't even consider UU a church, it is more like a social gathering. At least the one I went to sometimes in NY. There were pagans, jews, christians, satanists, hindus. It was pretty cool to talk with other people's about their beliefs and philosophies.

buster2010
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Who cares????

People care when politicians are being voted in because of their religious views instead of their political views.

Trouble is, they don't even follow the precepts of their religion except for all that 'god bless america' crap.

They sure don't hesitate to murder people whenever it suits them, which as I remember is kinda high on the list of commandment don'ts.

seeker1963
reply to post by buster2010

 

People care when politicians are being voted in because of their religious views instead of their political views.

You forgot to mention, politicians views on immigration, wealth status, etc etc......

Using politicians to say what is right or wrong is about just as blind as saying prostitutes know more about our economy than our politicians do.....

What team do you belong to?????

I belong to no team. Right now there is a good chance that a prostitute does know about as much about the economy as the average politician.

TKDRL
reply to post by signalfire

 

I wouldn't even consider UU a church, it is more like a social gathering. At least the one I went to sometimes in NY. There were pagans, jews, christians, satanists, hindus. It was pretty cool to talk with other people's about their beliefs and philosophies.

Lol, true. It's all-inclusive and most are 'welcoming' communities, flying rainbow flags.

I once told a UU joke that my mother didn't much appreciate; that you could always tell the Unitarians, cuz the men all had beards, and the women all had moustaches...

They also have the highest educational attainments of any denomination, which says a lot. I agree that all churches are social gatherings, where you can kinda have a bead on how other people think, meaning you hope they think like you do. Me, I go to the church of Mensa.

reply to post by Grimpachi


If by Christian, you mean followers of Jesus Christ and his philosophy of nonviolence and love and respect for our fellow man....


No, we're not a Christian nation by any stretch of the imagination!

signalfire

buster2010
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Who cares????

People care when politicians are being voted in because of their religious views instead of their political views.

Trouble is, they don't even follow the precepts of their religion except for all that 'god bless america' crap.

They sure don't hesitate to murder people whenever it suits them, which as I remember is kinda high on the list of commandment don'ts.

Good point Rand Paul said about as much about Christians and war and just look at how he was raked over the coals for it.

reply to post by signalfire

Trouble is, they don't even follow the precepts of their religion except for all that 'god bless america' crap.

They sure don't hesitate to murder people whenever it suits them, which as I remember is kinda high on the list of commandment don'ts.

Our you assuming that when you hear a government official invoke the name of God, that they are doing it for a righteous belief???

The government uses religion as a form of control on the masses as much as they can!

When a government official use the term GOD, I just assume they are talking about Gold, Oil, and Drugs!

Everything else in their eyes is a potential vote!

Other than that, all I can say is that believe what you want, just don't try to persecute me because I don't believe as you do! Isn't that what our founding fathers had in mind?

buster2010
Right now there is a good chance that a prostitute does know about as much about the economy as the average politician.

Prostitute and politician .. what's the difference?
Oh wait ... my bad ... I apologize to the prostitutes for the insult.


That being said ... on the topic .... this country is a secular nation. The laws in place protect us from people of any religion having their religion be the law of the land. And at the same time, our laws protect religious people's rights to worship as they wish. Right now, I'd say it's pretty well balanced in that area.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Prostitute and politician .. what's the difference?
Oh wait ... my bad ... I apologize to the prostitutes for the insult.

You know, we jest in debate, however, I wonder how much money prostitutes actually make from our elected officials whom willingly pay them money for their wares, while standing in front of their constituents to proclaim the plague on the land that prostitution brings?

Elliot Spitzer comes to mind................

reply to post by signalfire


I've read a lot of information regarding the Roman creation of Christianity and Islam.
At the very least it's an interesting read.

reply to post by seeker1963


Nobody's persecuting you that I can see. As an atheist, I feel like I have to bite my tongue on a daily basis, though, mostly because so many Christians are so un-Christian-like. They sure don't understand that whole 'judge not lest ye be judged' bit. And it's rather tiresome to be told you're going to go to a bad place that you don't even believe in all the time.

I think religion has done more to keep humans back than germs have. It's time for the religionistas to wise up already. You don't have the right to your delusions when they affect other people.

Gee, I wonder what all the politicans would talk about if they couldn't mouth platitudes and code words like, 'god bless america' all the time, and had to actually discuss their true thoughts.

That's one of the things I liked a lot about Gary Johnson. He never, ever, said 'god bless' or anything like it. He was morally above it.