U.S. debt jumps a record $328 billion — tops $17 trillion for first time

reply to post by RocksFromSpace


Well there really is only a couple of months left this year.

so really we are talking about six of one and half dozen of the other.

two months time, next year, however you want to put it, the whole thing is screwed up.

How is that even a real number? How can that much debt exist anytime, anywhere, from one organization? How can any rational body of individuals convincingly say, "Yup, that's how much debt we have."

My brain blew a fuse. It can't even rationally comprehend that number. The U.S. national debt might as well be a hundred gazillion. It makes just as much sense to me; almost just as much sense as the realization there is no plan in place to reduce or even stabilize it.

How long can they continue to spend imaginary money, and how long will people keep buying it?

reply to post by ArchAngel_X

My brain blew a fuse. It can't even rationally comprehend that number

Well, just think of this



17 TIMES!!!!!

and that is what American National debt looks like in $100 bills.

ABNARTY
Maybe someone more intimate with detached-from-reality economics can help me out on this one.

So we just went over $17 Trillion in debt, yet the administration is pounding the talking point the deficit has been cut in half. Oh, and raising the debt ceiling does not increase debt. How does all of that reconcile?

I have read a lot of pieces on this such as:

www.treasurydirect.gov...
money.howstuffworks.com...
usgovinfo.about.com...
www.americanprogress.org...

After all of that, it still makes little sense. 'The deficit is meaningless' or 'Debt to GDP ratio is lessening' or 'It only matters for our credit rating'. There seems to be little agreement much less a discussion on any one facet of this mess. These are experts?

In the end, I do not give a s***. I know my tax dollars are being wasted on things I have no say over. I disagree that my government has to borrow money from commercial entities when they can run it themselves at 0% interest. GDP is a joke when just about every damn thing manufactured comes from elsewhere. The "experts" can mumbo-jumbo the economic-speak all they want. It means nothing to the unemployed/under-employed.

The administration is bold face lying when they say they cut the deficit in half.

Bushes last year we ran a 458 billion dollar deficit which was the largest ever run before Obama. Obama's first year was 1.4 trillion and this year will be over 800 billion. Even if you use those two numbers it's a 43 percent drop not 50 percent.

Almost all the deficit reduction is through increased taxation, and now Obama is talking about raising taxes another 800 billion to a trillion. A 30 percent increase! I don't believe they can raise taxes that much as businesses and individuals will go to extreme measures to avoid increases at that level.

Even if he could raise taxes that much it would still not be enough with increasing medical costs, and the intrest rate all but guaranteed to rise, with each 1 percent rise costing us 170 billion a year.

Well that figures. Now the real question
is the FED even printing any money at all at this rate?

Here is a table showing all the annual deficit spending 2001 thru 2012 fiscal years.

It includes the majorities in Congress also.

just for comparisons;

Agent_USA_Supporter
Well that figures. Now the real question
is the FED even printing any money at all at this rate?

edit on 18-10-2013 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Nah. They ran out of money for ink and paper. Now, they just borrow a few electrons and it's all ones and zeroes on a computer chip somewhere.

Oh, and the can they keep kicking down the road is made from unobtainium, which is known to last a good long while, perhaps until the sun burns out.

What I'm waiting to see, the thought that truly gives my life meaning, the reason I say I'm still here out of pure morbid curiosity, is I can't wait for the day when Disclosure happens probably by accident and the Federal Government finally has to own up to the fact that the Black Projects with their massive budgets are at least 50 years ahead of everyone else technologically, we long ago achieved light speed craft, there's permanent Earth and Alien bases on the Moon and Mars, and oh, the aliens have been semi-controlling things here politically for lo, these past decades. At least.

That, I wanna see.

reply to post by signalfire


"the aliens have been semi-controlling things here politically for lo, these past decades." so ur saying humans are smart its aliens who are stupid?
but just really,,really,, good at decieving people? with, matrixmagic jack in the bean stock/ blue shoes and red sock's,,tricks?

can u say RedSox's? u know baseball,,,can't say Redskins, ?? just wondering,, u know in the overall importance of MIND CONTROL,,uuuuuuuuufear the wrong thoughts,,,,Redskins,,redsox's,,redrum,,,hehehe

signalfire

Agent_USA_Supporter
Well that figures. Now the real question
is the FED even printing any money at all at this rate?

edit on 18-10-2013 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Nah. They ran out of money for ink and paper. Now, they just borrow a few electrons and it's all ones and zeroes on a computer chip somewhere.

Oh, and the can they keep kicking down the road is made from unobtainium, which is known to last a good long while, perhaps until the sun burns out.

What I'm waiting to see, the thought that truly gives my life meaning, the reason I say I'm still here out of pure morbid curiosity, is I can't wait for the day when Disclosure happens probably by accident and the Federal Government finally has to own up to the fact that the Black Projects with their massive budgets are at least 50 years ahead of everyone else technologically, we long ago achieved light speed craft, there's permanent Earth and Alien bases on the Moon and Mars, and oh, the aliens have been semi-controlling things here politically for lo, these past decades. At least.

That, I wanna see.

My little imp with the fork in my earlobe is keeping me
above ground right now just to see the exposure of only
one, just one of the master digital counterfeiters and
a proper timeline of the operation.

The rest, if properly explained just once on camera and on a network everyone supposedly watches-- in sufficiently simple English, will do the rest for a tipover.

An immediate mothballing of old or dangerously toxic
energy technologies, public rollout of superweapons
that may or may not have been recently used covertly
already-- great. But these money slavers getting their
comeuppance would be for me like hitting the
Promised Land compared to 'The Chair Explained'.

Dylan Ratigan is barely making a scratch on the masses;
but the exposure of the next funny money system may
'smell so bad on camera' (didn't come out well at all)
from the last batch of quiet IMF meetings, we yanks
just might GO HUNGARIAN. Oh blissful apprehensions.

Picture this, Signalfire: the last powwow for Bretton
Woods Ver. Whatever might have enjoyed a good
smokescreen; but what if things are being pounded
out often enough for everyone to notice by now, and
the tipover point is already surpassed for perception?
Quite dangerous for the silver spoon brigade: since the
game of chicken with 'shutdown collapse' collapsed.

ps. That unobtanium .. isn't that one of the major elements in futilium laborate? Admit it your grace...I'm not Burton.

reply to post by watchitburn

Blame THAT on Bush!

OtherSideOfTheCoin
. . . America is a supper power built on debt.

A supper power. Does that mean we're only powerful briefly at the end of the day while we're diggin' in to the spaghetti dinner bought with China's money? Nah, j/k, I know what you meant, typos happen. But the supper power idea was kind of funny anyway.

Uncapped spending until February. There's no way this could be a fiscal disaster :rolls eyes: You watch. They'll start out conservative with how much is borrowed, and after a while, the borrowing will snowball out of control. This is like giving the shopping addict a credit card with no limit on the promise of "I'll buy wisely." BS, you know temptation & greed is going to override common sense eventually.

reply to post by watchitburn


The meter is broken.



17 trill?

Lots of debt for those who dont have enough to pay it back.

Thanks to 30 years of political malarkey.

Crakeur
so, within 24 hours of raising the debt ceiling our debt has increased?

but...but...Mr. President...I thought raising the debt ceiling doesn't raise our debt

Raising the ceiling does not raise the debt, only the ability to increase the debt which is why the debt ceiling is raised. Which err never mind everyone knows that of coarse I am just saying technically he was not lying lol.

StoutBroux
reply to post by watchitburn

 

Blame THAT on Bush!

They will. And Democrats will agree, because to do otherwise will mean THEY screwed up electing Obama, and rather than admit a mistake it's easier to accept a lie.

can the debt ceiling be raised indefinitely?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


LOL What makes you think at this point Obama and co can't do absolutely anything they want?

AthlonSavage
can the debt ceiling be raised indefinitely?

Yes, they can remove it completely. But it would require a vote.

Ok so he keeps raising debt ceiling then what is US using t p pay its debts, wheres the money coming from?

you answered the easy question now start answering the hard ones.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Leaving work this evening, my democrat co-worker made a quip about the world not ending with the "shutdown" shutdown - said something about the Fed just printing money if the US needed something.

I said - The Federal Reserve is not the US gov't - they are private bankers, tied all together with the IMF.

He stared at me blankly - I told him he had a lot of learning to do - and left ATS on the computer, asked him to log me out after he had read enough -

Is this seriously what is wrong with the portion of americans that actually "think" this is ok?

I'm surprised that we have been arguing "apples and oranges" all these years because he didn't have the common knowledge that the US Federal Reserve Banks were not part of the gov't - but are in fact, private banksters......

So theoretical question here. Suppose that by some act of who knows what (no defaults,or resets) American was able to go to from 17 trillion in debt to 0 in debt or heaven forbid into the uncharted green, how exactly would that change everyday life? All I hear is debt,debt,debt what is the flipside of the coin?