A question about faith

"We" ( Me and You, the "other Me") are ALL working our way back to whence "we" came, the One Infinite Creator. "We" ALL make it but it'll take some a tad bit longer to get there.

The bestest thing You typed was the realization that You NEED to first look "within" Most never take this trip. You have realized to see what is "outside" You must first look "inside". Bravo! | was raised a Catholic™ and was a ghetto cop in Ca. My ®eligiousity was always in question until | read the Tao Te Ching

AfterInfinity
reply to post by beezzer

 

Maybe the more educated a culture is, the less they are able to acknowledge the presence of god.

And why is that?

I don't know.

I'll admit, the idea of religion, while comforting, confuses me.

Perhaps it is because I confuse religion with god.

piequal3because14
reply to post by beezzer

 

I don't think there were. And if there weren't, doesn't that give some indication of a higher being? A god? A pantheon of gods? A God?

"If you come from nowhere and you are going nowhere,then love shouldn't exist,or love does not exists."

"But as long as we come from love,as creation,then God it is the answer to all questions,because He is Love."

I like that. Really. It just causes me to question more, though.

*sigh*

Sometimes I'm just too small to understand.

luciddream
reply to post by beezzer

 

Everyone has the "faith" mind set... but how far can you push it?

Saying, i have a faith that i can make this jump across the crevice... compared to...

to a point where someone believes a magical supreme being that is responsible for every single aspect of the world is watching your every move and have devoting your life ans salary to it? i don't know... that is really pushing it.

In an abstract way, I would agree. My education includes a science background that begs for empirical evidence.

But it also has taught me that as much as we do know, we still have much to learn.

reply to post by LewisStulePhD


To know god is to know thyself?

reply to post by beezzer

Just my thoughts Beez, but...

Since religion had to have a beginning, atheism is older than religion. Richard Leakey (The Origin of Humankind) believes that the first evidence of religion shows up around 30,000 years ago, in certain cave paintings in Europe. Ritual burials, arguably evidence of religious practices, date from about the same time. Based on that evidence, all humans were atheists until around 30,000 years ago. Atheism was never 'created' and is not a response to any one religion, because it is not an organised philosophy - anyone who does not believe in any god is an atheist.

Source

I'm not so sure I'm completely on board with his reasoning, but I think it has some merit. I would also suspect that long ago, just as it is today, there were many in religious leadership positions who were closet atheists. So I would say atheism is at least as old as religion.

reply to post by beezzer


Imagine the same time frame that you are describing- Each culture also had a language. Some of the languages were complex, some were simple, but humans were able to communicate. Hand signals, then sign language also became a form of communication. Language also includes writing, and even drawing. All a form of communication. Humans who do not speak similar languages can even communicate with each other- Perhaps because we are all connected. And when we do not speak the same language, we can most effectively communicate when we are at peace with one another.
I believe that language, and its development, and its complexities are good indicators of something unseen connecting human beings.

I also think that mathematics, when it was first "discovered" (back in 1977) is an indicator of God as well. When a person perceives of something unseen, such as Mathematics they are using something in addition to the five senses to come up with this information. Just adding objects together takes an intellectual step. Just thinking about things leads the mind to truth. The only problem, it seems, is that there are always two truths.

reply to post by beezzer

I like that. Really. It just causes me to question more, though.

*sigh*

Sometimes I'm just too small to understand.

It is not about being small or big,it's about having a good soul,and indeed you are a good person with a good soul.

reply to post by beezzer


The first time a caveman, who was minding his own business, looking for something to eat, heard thunder and saw a bolt of lightening, he thought, someone did that! Someone is "mad" at me!

The first time someone saw a volcano, they thought, that mountain is angry! When early man was victimized by a storm, they thought, some powerful entity did this!

This is how religion started, from the awe of nature and fear and ignorance. People started to try to appease natural forces, and when food was plentiful and things went well, they thought it worked, and the gods were pleased.

The idea of "god" has evolved, and some people have always rejected someone else's idea of what "god" is, and been called a non-believer / atheist.

Thanks for all the replies!

I don't want to confuse faith with religion, though.

In my mind, faith is the belief in something "more" and religion in the vehicle to convey that belief.

I see conflicting analysis, however.

If we were all "atheists" as Leakey contended, then how long did that last until a caveman saw his first "angry" volcano?

reply to post by beezzer

To know god is to know thyself?

On the contrary, or perhaps in accordance, it is written at the Temple of Delphi that "know thyself, and you will know the gods and the universe."

It's quite interesting, actually. I'd been saying that for about three or four days, and I opened a book and there that line was. First time reading it, but not the first time thinking it. My reaction: "Awwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh!"

reply to post by beezzer

I don't know.

I'll admit, the idea of religion, while comforting, confuses me.

Perhaps it is because I confuse religion with god.

It is my observation that "god" and "religion" are two different (but related) ideas being given the same treatment. Religion takes spirituality and puts it inside of a box. How else do you get a thousand people to feel and think the same way about the same thing? Same happened with the idea of "god".

Like I said: the point is not to be right or correct, but to be safe and happy. It could be the fattest, stinkiest, most blatant lie in the world...but if it suits our purposes perfectly, we will accept it as the truth because we would hate to find the actual truth and live the rest of our lives in confusion and uncertainty.

I definitely believe there were atheist cultures thousands of years ago, why wouldn't there be? There's a tribe in the Amazon today called the Pirahas who do not believe in God. Sweden, Vietnam, and Japan are by and large atheistic culturally. If we see it today, I don't see why it would be any different thousands of years ago.

I personally believe that a God or Gods are introduced only when others begin wanting to control others. We see what the idea of God can do to people today, it's a great control mechanism and I believe that's the ideas main purpose. I do believe in God, but I can't deny the obvious implications of the concept.

reply to post by beezzer

I don't want to confuse faith with religion, though.

In my mind, faith is the belief in something "more" and religion in the vehicle to convey that belief.

Religion tells us what to believe and what to have faith in. For example, a newborn has no concept of Jesus dying on the cross and then rising from the dead to atone for the sin that the newborn has yet to commit. The newborn must be taught this concept. Then develop faith in that belief.

Everyone is born with the capacity of faith. Faith in one's parents to come and feed us. Faith that the sun will rise and tomorrow will arrive. Faith that in reading and studying, one will remember well enough to pass an exam, etc.

Si.

You are indeed "The Creator" working Your way BACK to The One Infinite Creator. "It" is whatever You make "it", whatever it is You "create"...

It is akin to those Ones who profess a "belief" in God/Adonai/Allah (whichever name You assign) and then have the audacity to ask "What kind of God would allow that"? You don't need an Organized ®eligion™ to have "Faith"...

The great news is that the "search" is greatly based on "intentions" If You keep 'searching' You will 'find' but by ALL means enjoy Your trip. Don't be surprised if You awake One morn and You have an unknown 'energy' and are now keenly "aware" of things that You've never studied or sought. Once Your Kundalini is "awakened" is tough to "go back".

"To Learn" is the same as "To Teach" unless You are NOT teaching what it is You are learning, in which case You have done You/They little or no good...

It is now just a "short putt" away...

namaste

beezzer
Thanks for the replies.

So atheism is a recent construct then?

I just find it interesting that separate cultures can discover religion.

You know, I wonder if the colliding of cultures over time resulted in Atheism. If you think about it, some cultures has 'this part' figured out, and attributed all unknown phenomenon to God, while this other culture had 'this other part' figured out, and different unknowns attributed to God. When they meet up, they debunk each other's God by lifting the veil from each other's unknown phenomena.

Well, it kind of makes sense in my head. What do you think?

new_here

beezzer
Thanks for the replies.

So atheism is a recent construct then?

I just find it interesting that separate cultures can discover religion.

You know, I wonder if the colliding of cultures over time resulted in Atheism. If you think about it, some cultures has 'this part' figured out, and attributed all unknown phenomenon to God, while this other culture had 'this other part' figured out, and different unknowns attributed to God. When they meet up, they debunk each other's God by lifting the veil from each other's unknown phenomena.

Well, it kind of makes sense in my head. What do you think?

That actually makes sense!

reply to post by beezzer

Our distant ancestors probably saw spirits and spiritual powers all over the place.
"There's a spirit in that tree, there's a spirit in that crop we're trying to grow, there's a spirit in that animal we want to hunt. Better talk to them nicely."
The default state of humans is probably polytheism rather than atheism.

beezzer
I've been pondering mortality lately.

Faith, god/God/gods/Gods.

It has created a question.

Now to preface the question, I must state that this isn't to endorse a specific secular religion or belief.

Imagine 3,000 years ago, there were humans scattered widely throughout the planet and none were in any real contact with each other. Yet they all had religions. Beliefs. Rituals. Customs.

Were there any atheist pre-historic cultures?

I don't think there were. And if there weren't, doesn't that give some indication of a higher being? A god? A pantheon of gods? A God?

Thank you for your consideration.

beez

3,000 years ago people had real contact with each other. 17,000 years ago not so much, but 3,000, yes.

As far as atheistic cultures, we do not know or never will know, the only thing we do know is that ancient people farmed, raised animals and used pottery. And if you trace the oldest writings, their religions all have a comparable genesis, flood story and eschatology, meaning that they all have such similar writings about these events, it makes me believe they all came from an original source before spreading out. But 3,000 years ago, there were a lot of religions and kingdoms.

Pre-history simply means before it was written, and since petroglyphs are considered a form of writing, then we can go that far back at least. But we will never know before something was written, because that's the measure of civilization.

beezzer


Were there any atheist pre-historic cultures?

I don't think there were. And if there weren't, doesn't that give some indication of a higher being? A god? A pantheon of gods? A God?

beez

Awesome question. People are going to say that humanity has always embraced mythology as a way to explain science and that atheism sprouted up because that need diminishes with the growth of science.

That only explains some of it, though. I agree that personifying the planets and stars were a mythological explanation for something very physical, the vast majority of religion and mythology is based on spiritual concepts and not just as an explanation of things that are not understood.

We are instinctively drawn to this. Your subconscious understands that you are not housed in a strictly biological construct nor that it is strictly a result of chemistry and biology. It hears things and, if the conscious mind listens, you can hear it too. That small voice is what tells Christians that Jesus has their backs, tells Buddhists that their path to enlightenment isn't just a waste of time, tells agnostics that it's okay to have an open mind about divinity, and it tells me very directly that my deities are active and very much alive.

This personal gnosis that nearly everybody gets at some point can never be overrun by conventional science nor any 3rd-party testimonials to the contrary.