Obama's plans for America: Taxes and Immigration

reply to post by Nephalim


Two purposes come to mind. 1st to fatten the herd of lower wage earners, the government may actually lose on that while scraping in a little more taxes. 2nd is to pump up one the democratic parties demographic groups. 11 million or 33 million new democrat voters, they probably figure it's a party boost.

Night Star
The illegal women that I knew worked and had husbands who worked under the table. They would claim they were a one income household and recieve food stamps, cheap housing etc. These people were making above the poverty limit and were cheating the system.

There is a lot of crap illegals pull. Look at that child credit thing where they would get a thousand bucks per child and claimed nephews and neices who lived in Mexico!

don't forget the whole "anchor baby" thing they do too......

come over pregnant, drop anchor, and now it's harder for them to deport you, because your child is a citizen...

i forgot to mention all the BS they do to scam the system, and take advantage of programs they have no actual right to....thanks for bringing that up..

jimmyx

Common Good
I swear this guy is trying to screw over the people of the nation any which way he can. He doesnt act Presidential, he acts like a infiltrator that has a grudge against the very people hes supposed to be protecting.

EVERYTHING he does- is put on the backs of people who have nothing left- and tries to convince people hes doing the right thing for them and our country.

he makes me sick.

it all just doesnt make sense for a country in a weakened state, unless hes trying to actually break it. If that is the case- than it all makes perfect sense.

edit on 16-10-2013 by Common Good because: (no reason given)

you're free to leave this country and find some other country you would be more comfortable living in, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

lol, what you said makes ZERO sense.....

would you care to explain the thought process (if one exists) behind these remarks?

jimmyx

Night Star
The illegal women that I knew worked and had husbands who worked under the table. They would claim they were a one income household and recieve food stamps, cheap housing etc. These people were making above the poverty limit and were cheating the system.

There is a lot of crap illegals pull. Look at that child credit thing where they would get a thousand bucks per child and claimed nephews and neices who lived in Mexico!

if that's happening report them, and of course, you will tell us their names and addresses, so we might have the chance to verify what you say since you know this to be true.

silly fail-troll...you just failed again...

sure, let's post people's personal details right here in the open....because it's not like it's against the T&C, or anything....

reply to post by Daedalus

in any event, i don't think anyone's gonna disagree with the idea that all the illegals should be rounded up, and deported, Quick-Fast™

Oh you havn't been in the illegal immigration threads that I have been in. It would blow your mind! There are plenty of pro-illegal folks who don't give a damn who waltzes over the border. They don't care if the illegals don't have a health and background check. They don't care that they are taking jobs while our citizens are jobless etc.

Bassago
The king is not wasting any time. Here's what Obama said today.

"In the coming days and weeks, we should sit down and pursue a balanced approach to a responsible budget, a budget that grows our economy faster and shrinks our long-term deficits further,” Obama stated. Historically, “balanced” has been code for tax increases.

Obama then pushed on to immigration reform: “Number two. We should finish the job of fixing our broken immigration system.” Naturally, he blamed the Republican House for stalling his preferred immigration bill.

Source
With the now infamous folding republican gang he may just succeed.

what i wanna know is exactly how he thinks the immigration system is "broken"...

the only "broken" part i see is the WIDE OPEN southern border, where just anyone can walk in...

Nephalim
What am I missing?

the most important part...

you assume they WANT to be legal...you also assume that they will comply with registering themselves to become legit, and part of the system...

you're assuming that criminals are going to magically want to play by the rules....

no, maybe some will register, but the rest will continue to work under the table, scam benefits, and send most of their money back to mexico, until they've saved up enough to go back themselves....

reply to post by Daedalus

don't forget the whole "anchor baby" thing they do too......

That has to stop! These kids should not even be considered legal as their parents broke the law to get here. The entire families should be deported. Illegals always blame us for breaking up their families when the parents knew full well this could happen but chose to come anyway. Some parents were here for many years and never even tried to become legal. Many save up the money they get here as it is worth more in their own countries and then return back to that country.

In the meantime they can get cheap housing, food stamps medical etc. because their children were born here and because they lie when they have two incomes above poverty level and say they have only one.

Night Star
reply to post by Daedalus

 

in any event, i don't think anyone's gonna disagree with the idea that all the illegals should be rounded up, and deported, Quick-Fast™

Oh you havn't been in the illegal immigration threads that I have been in. It would blow your mind! There are plenty of pro-illegal folks who don't give a damn who waltzes over the border. They don't care if the illegals don't have a health and background check. They don't care that they are taking jobs while our citizens are jobless etc.

it doesn't surprise me...i've met people like that...

some of them were children of illegals, the rest....well, i just refer to them as being part of the "room temprature IQ" crowd..

Daedalus

Nephalim
What am I missing?

the most important part...

you assume they WANT to be legal...you also assume that they will comply with registering themselves to become legit, and part of the system...

you're assuming that criminals are going to magically want to play by the rules....

no, maybe some will register, but the rest will continue to work under the table, scam benefits, and send most of their money back to mexico, until they've saved up enough to go back themselves....

Hmm, Ok so we're both assuming something apparently.
1. They either want to be legal or they don't. If so, It would be logical to assume those who want to be legal will become legal because its in their best interests and ours. And, those do not, will simply be deported just as they've always been.

Night Star
reply to post by Daedalus

 

don't forget the whole "anchor baby" thing they do too......

That has to stop! These kids should not even be considered legal as their parents broke the law to get here. The entire families should be deported. Illegals always blame us for breaking up their families when the parents knew full well this could happen but chose to come anyway. Some parents were here for many years and never even tried to become legal. Many save up the money they get here as it is worth more in their own countries and then return back to that country.

Its in the constitution.

Nephalim
Yeaa Im having a little bit of an issue with some of the logic in this thread about taxes and welfare.

WE know when you have an influx of population, you get more workers, thus you collect more taxes so there is no real need to increase current taxes. The working population added does that on its own.
What am I missing

The bigger picture is what you're missing.
Yes, some will be working and putting in to the system, that's correct.
However, it will not be enough to counterbalance the number using social services, welfare, foodstamps and those who draw from the system.
Their birthrates are far higher (more kids, more welfare) educational levels much lower (lower pay = lower taxes),more gang members and more illicit activities which thrive on poverty. Also many send money back home increasing capital flight. Finally, there's the "reuniting families" bit which sounds all warm and fuzzy but would add many disabled and elderly to the population.
In turn more people will drive down wages, increase education costs and additionally burden the infrastructure and public transportation systems. Lastly this will also increase rents and housing prices due to increased competition.
It's a negative sum game and the American worker is the big loser in it.

All that doesn't even take in to account the cultural changes that will overwhelm many communities.
I don't care to live in Greater Mexico myself nor do most Americans I know.

Nephalim

Night Star
reply to post by Daedalus

 

don't forget the whole "anchor baby" thing they do too......

That has to stop! These kids should not even be considered legal as their parents broke the law to get here. The entire families should be deported. Illegals always blame us for breaking up their families when the parents knew full well this could happen but chose to come anyway. Some parents were here for many years and never even tried to become legal. Many save up the money they get here as it is worth more in their own countries and then return back to that country.

Its in the constitution.

Natural born citizen is in the Constitution and that was based on having a parent who was a citizen already.
Foreign embassy workers who have children born in the US do not become US citizens.
The14th Amendment confers citizenship on slaves and those of the seceding states of the Confederacy. it was never intended to act as immigration law despite what you can find online in places like Wikipedia.

There is an obvious double standard if people like John McCain are considered citizens while born outside of the US.

Daedalus

what i wanna know is exactly how he thinks the immigration system is "broken"...

the only "broken" part i see is the WIDE OPEN southern border, where just anyone can walk in...

"Broken" is political weasel speak for "We don't like it the way it is so it's broken." At least that all I can figure. The only real issues I've heard is from my old corporate HQ bitching about the difficulty getting or keeping foreign trained employees over here as interns, etc.

Asktheanimals

Nephalim

Night Star
reply to post by Daedalus

 

don't forget the whole "anchor baby" thing they do too......

That has to stop! These kids should not even be considered legal as their parents broke the law to get here. The entire families should be deported. Illegals always blame us for breaking up their families when the parents knew full well this could happen but chose to come anyway. Some parents were here for many years and never even tried to become legal. Many save up the money they get here as it is worth more in their own countries and then return back to that country.

Its in the constitution.

Natural born citizen is in the Constitution and that was based on having a parent who was a citizen already.
Foreign embassy workers who have children born in the US do not become US citizens.
The14th Amendment confers citizenship on slaves and those of the seceding states of the Confederacy. it was never intended to act as immigration law despite what you can find online in places like Wikipedia.

There is an obvious double standard if people like John McCain are considered citizens while born outside of the US.

Hmm, nice. Any constitutional law I pull here comes from Government archives. Which also includes Lincolns emancipation proclamation. If the horses mouth is not a reliable source, I don't know what is.

Ask yourself a few questions then I suppose sir.
if they are here..
are they not under your jurisdiction?
Did they not have children, in the united states
and...
what else do you have to go by?
Eligibility of the executive?
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States
even then, if your born here and childbirth is natural.. happening in the united states. You are a natural born citizen.

Didnt know about Mr. McCain but he's been elected and re-elected several times. Served in the war ect.. must be a citizen. Do you trust Fox News? Clicky

reply to post by Nephalim


There's case law to support what you say as well, a Chinese couple had a baby in the US and it went to court finding the child was indeed a citizen.
But does maternity tourism make any sense to you?
That simply because you cross the border and drop a baby on US soil it becomes a citizen?
Does it not have the conferred citizenship of it's parent then?
If say a Mexican woman crosses the border and has her child in the US would she then have to file immigrant status for her child if she returned to Mexico?

Just questions of mine I really don't have answers for.

Asktheanimals
reply to post by Nephalim

 

There's case law to support what you say as well, a Chinese couple had a baby in the US and it went to court finding the child was indeed a citizen.
But does maternity tourism make any sense to you?
That simply because you cross the border and drop a baby on US soil it becomes a citizen?
Does it not have the conferred citizenship of it's parent then?
If say a Mexican woman crosses the border and has her child in the US would she then have to file immigrant status for her child if she returned to Mexico?

Just questions of mine I really don't have answers for.

Well, right now I'm looking at our congressional and court history. Most of their decisions are made based on county records. Which implies, basically, historically they at least required records of birth in the US as grounds, along with a "declaration of intent". So it looks like they're going by the 14th and as verification (court of record) courts of record can be and can vary but may include the county supreme, circuit, district, equity, chancery, probate, or common pleas court.

Anchor babies? nah. That's no good but its not new to the nation either. Even that is going to have a history with so many literally stepping off boats. Question is what can people prove? I can cover my back to at least ww2 and fairly sure, and at least by family history I'm a native Texan of sorts. But even if I could prove that, how fair would that be to people who cant keep a B.C for a year. Some people cant even find their car keys. lol

You guys would be surprised or may be not, considering we are a nation of immigrants. This is not a new sort of issue. Of the foreign-born persons listed on the 1890 through 1930 censuses, 25 percent had not become naturalized or filed their "first papers." Texas joins in 1845. Idaho and Wyoming had just become "states" and Utah not for several years later. (1896)

Nephalim
Hmm, Ok so we're both assuming something apparently.
1. They either want to be legal or they don't. If so, It would be logical to assume those who want to be legal will become legal because its in their best interests and ours. And, those do not, will simply be deported just as they've always been.

If they wanted to be here legally, they'd go through the system, and be here legally...they don't wanna be here legally.

explain to me how it is in their best interest to become naturalized citizens? then they hafta pay taxes, and it makes them ineligible for the kinds of jobs they get now...

see, if they become naturalized citizens, now they have certain protections...protections that make them unattractive to the kinds of employers that employ illegals....they want illegals, because they can pay them whatever, and the person they're paying whatever, has no legal recourse, because they're not citizens...

so they wouldn't be able to get their jobs....plus, they might not be able to scam the system, because once they're in the system, it makes it far easier to track their income, and whatnot..

it's absolutely NOT in their best interest to become citizens.....it's in their best interest to remain illegal, scam the hell out of our system, ship their money home, and then go back themselves one day....

and no, they're not gonna be deported...and you wanna know why? because they're not being deported now...

Nephalim
Its in the constitution.

the NBC clause was put in there as another safeguard...

it was to prevent the election of a foreigner to the office of president, or vice-president...it was to protect against foreign influence over the government...

it was not meant to be an immigration policy...the modern interpretation of the clause has turned into this giant loophole, that people use in order to stay here illegally, and collect benefits they have no legal right to...

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Here's a reverse example for why i think an anchor baby is a ridiculous idea. When I was young my parents (both US citizens) took us overseas to Europe. While we were in Spain my younger brother was born. He's a US citizen not Spanish because both parents were US citizens.

reply to post by Daedalus


LOL well according to comments in this thread... our sitting President, and two sitting Senators have questionable legal status. (according to you guys and others I say) Now you got me wondering about everyone's documentation. I wonder how many in our Government and across this country dont meet your requirements for citizenship. O.o

What are you going to do?