Sorry, bullying is NOT a felony, even if the target commits suicide...

reply to post by SadistNocturne


Stalking, harassment, and communicating threats are all felony crimes when done by adults. Why give a kid a pass and call it "bullying" and say its no big deal. What the stalkers did would be actionable felonies in any other context, why disregard them in this context.

SadistNocturne


Wow, we are truly raising some incredibly thin skinned [SNIPPED] this upcoming generation then, aren't we?

If someone is abusing you, harassing you, stalking you, there ARE actions that can take place. There are things you can do. This does not mean you have to commit suicide.

And, as for "crimes" of harasment, stalking, etc?

Yeah, this is the over criminalization of america. Everyone is a victim in EVERY SENSE of the WORD.

Nobody can simply deal with it themselves.

When I was this child's age, you were taught to stand up to your bullies. You were taught to teach them that you were not going to take it anymore.

And you know what, it WORKED.

But, today, everyone sues everyone. Everyone says "It should be a CRIME". Everyone wants the Gov't to solve their problems for them.

We are a nation of emasculated, litigious cowards. Nobody will ever be able to solve their own problems again in life. Which is wonderful, because this is *precisely* what the Gov't wants.

Willing, dependent, slaves.

Slaves with the emotional intellect of a child.

edit on Wed Oct 16 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)

So if you went to work and your coworker punched you out, would you or would you not have him arrested for assault?

It has nothing to do with litigation, emotion, or being a coward, but rather using the proper means of redress for crimes against your person.

Xquizit
Here's a 30 second anti-bullying commercial currently being played here in Canada. Just goes to show that words can pack a "punch" just as much as hitting, slapping, shoving, pushing and punching.

That commercial has a lot of truth in it. The problem lies with parents, if you do not teach your children how words and actions can and do hurt someone then how can you be surprised when they turn into teenage monsters. I was bullied when I was younger, I think one needs to experience it to truly understand how it feels.

reply to post by boncho


Yes, this is true. I remember some of the kids that got "picked on" in gym class and lunch break. They acted like total douches in the classroom, where they knew the teacher would save their teacher's pet asses. Said things to make others feel stupid and inadequate. Then people took out their revenge out of the classroom. Those "picked on" kids were actually intellectual bullies in the classroom. That is one example off the top of my head. I have seen similar behavior in the jobs I worked in high school as well.

reply to post by TKDRL


That's the dumbest thing I've read today.

reply to post by Restricted


That was a really intelligent reply. I saw it with my own two eyes, heard the remarks with my ears. You want people to believe typing words on the internet is bullying. So how is making people feel stupid about not getting great grades not also bullying? Jocks got that all the time in the classrom. Then they dished out their own in gym class, where they had the upper hand.

TKDRL
reply to post by Restricted

 

That was a really intelligent reply. I saw it with my own two eyes, heard the remarks with my ears. You want people to believe typing words on the internet is bullying. So how is making people feel stupid about not getting great grades not also bullying? Jocks got that all the time in the classrom. Then they dished out their own in gym class, where they had the upper hand.

edit on Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:58:21 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Were you picked on by the intelligent? Come on. You read like sour grapes.

reply to post by Restricted

No, actually I was one of the smartest kids, but I didn't go out of my way to make others feel bad, like some other kids did. Also, again, you say it mockingly, as if being picked on because you are not so smart is OK or something. How is that any different than picking on someone on the internet? In fact, it is worse, you have to be in the classroom. You have to choose to log into facebook, and not to hit the ignore button.

reply to post by Painterz


If your post, and i do sincerely mean 'if' was directed at me...you're wrong. Wrong in your assesment of me, that is.

I was never a bully, but i have had some that have attempted it with me...they didn't like it very much.

If you cannot prevent being a victim, then of course it's not your fault, you're not causing you're own problems in situations that are entirely beyond your reasonable control or ability to ward off, that isn't what i meant't (and i think you ignored this in order to make your own point..).

It's NOT about physical ability...frankly, it's about courage..guts.

And if bullies are afraid of ANYTHING...it's guts.

TKDRL
So how is making people feel stupid about not getting great grades not also bullying?

Believe it or not, going to school is about getting an education, not being good at sports.

When you strive to get good grades, you are doing what is intended of you in getting an education. You are pushing yourself to compete against the “book” not the other students. How can excelling against the book be considered bullying, there is no intent there to embarrass those who don't do well. Those who don't do well usually have no one to blame but themselves for lacking the discipline to do the work (unless they have some disability).

The problem is that the “jocks” are not there to focus on an education, they are there to focus on sports. As such they often don't do the work required to do well in class. This is nothing more than a misdirection of the intended purpose of school.

TKDRL
Then they dished out their own in gym class, where they had the upper hand.

You ever see us mods talk about “playing the ball”
In sports you are supposed to “play the ball not the other players”, not unless you lack sportsmanship.

Doing well in a sport by excelling at the intended purpose of the sport, and showing good sportsmanship, is “playing the ball”.

Doing well in class, by excelling at competing against the “book”, is “playing the ball”.

This....
“Then they dished out their own in gym class”
Is “playing the other players”...

reply to post by SadistNocturne

But, the other parties involved did NOT *make* her do it. They most CERTAINLY are not guilty of a fracking FELONY

Define "make". Were being bombarded all the time by social factors that shape or predispose the direction in which we later act. Of course there is a fraction of free will in how we can act, but most of the time, we simply follow all feelings. In cognitive psychology, this way of being is labeled system 1 thinking; in contrast to system 2 thinking, system 1 thinking is automatic, emotional, and requires little conscious input. System 2 thinking is the type of manual, logical, analytical thought which creates a separation between the "I" and it's usual experience of emotions.

So, do bullies "make" a child kill themselves? That's a difficult question to answer. Here's what we know about a child psychology from developmental psychology. The system 2 framework of ordered logical thought doesn't reach full development until the early 20s. Meaning, for an 8-15 year old being bullied, what swallows and dominates their perception is the horrific feelings caused by the bullying; they very little "wiggle room" to work with. Of course, parental input and the descrying gaze of teachers can help the student understand the bullying. For kids who are bullied, they begin to internalize the message of the bulliers: they aren't likeable; they're ugly; etc. The gist is, they feel a strong dearth of connection with other human beings, and the bullying, coupled with the social isolation, with an added measure of adult neglect, pushes them over the edge. Life isn't worth living if this is how it is.

I am convinced we need to do a better job teaching teachers how to recognize bullying (quietness being a sign) and how to properly deal with it. Some of the biggest problems facing teachers is not having a stable teacher-student division; some teachers are too authoritarian, and never truly build a rapport with students, while other teachers are too lenient, and begin to care far too much what they're students think of them: they become limited in their role as a teacher and guide when they become side-tracked by social insecurities.

Kids need to know that they are beautiful - that each human being is tremendously unique, and exquisitely special. When a kid is being bullied, he not only loses sight of this at a cognitive, self appraisal level, but begins to see himself and feel himself in a very damaged and disjointed way: Bullying can traumatize and severely impact social development. Schools need to be tough with the bully to prevent him/her from furthering the damage they've already inflicted. This naive "talk to him" approach is not as effective as we would like to imagine. While he's receiving therapy from the school psychologist, he's being given the freedom to abuse/bully his victim during class or recesses. He doesn't easily internalize the message simply because, at such a young age, his/her prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed.

So, a more practical solution is to expel the bullier. This should be the go-to response in the case of inveterate bullying. In the case of the bullied kids, they should be helped by psychologists and teacher(s) in restoring their damaged sense of self.

Bullies always go after the weakest links. These are the kids who are 'off' in some way; whether they are shorter than usual, overweight, ethnically different from the majority group, or, if they have experienced some developmental trauma at home that resulted in extreme shyness and self inhibition. Kids like this stick out like sore-thumbs.

It's true that bullies are often bullied at home. The bully personality type reacts to his own "trauma" at home by lashing out against others. The instinctively gravitate towards the weakest links in any group. They'll find them, and then proceed to hurt them.

Unfortunately for the bully, this type of anti-social behavior is unacceptable. A "traumatized" kid who bullies other kids is in need of therapy, yes; but his situation is far less serious than the damage that he causes for his victim. These kids are kicked out of the social circle. Oftentimes, they experience trauma that stays with them for life.

Bullies shouldn't be arrested, but they shouldn't be tolerated as simply a "part" of what it means to grow up. As a civilized society, we shouldn't accept the suffering and disability that it induces in others. We should try to repair the situation in an intelligible way. I think I layed out a few good ideas: educate teachers to better recognize bullying, and help the bullied student feel more relaxed and at ease socializing with others; enforce a 3 rule (or something along these lines) with bullying, culminating in expulsion.

reply to post by defcon5


Getting good grades is not it. Making comments about other's grades, saying "duh" and s'n-word'ing when a wrong answer is given when called upon etc. Making people feel stupid. None of the jocks hassled me any just because I pulled straight A's.

I was always a pretty nice guy, and a bit of a chameleon, I could get along with just about everyone. Most people only see from one side, and have skewed memories. The fact that I got on with everyone but the rich group, gave me a good perspective to see things others may not have.

I played some sports, so I have also seen it from jock's point of view. There were always minimum grade requirements to be on sports teams, and I have seen some of them struggle hard to keep in the green. I even tutored a few team mates. It wasn't for lack of trying.

I was also smart, so I could hang with the nerds, and hear them moan about getting tossed around in gym class. I told them why. A few corrected their rude behavior, and wow, they stopped getting "picked on" in gym class.

I got picked on by the rich kids, because I let them. When I stopped letting them, it stopped.

reply to post by Astrocyte


You're oversimplifying things at the same time as greatly inflating your oversimplifications.

Sorry, but you are.

The bottom line, among all the pseudo-psychoanalytical cliche's is you HAVE to fight your own corner and not submit to bullying. That's it..it doesn't get ANY deeper than that in the real, everyday world as opposed to the intellectual pondering one.

If the bully thinks there is an easier target further along...they'll move further along pretty damned smart!

And when there's nobody else to 'move down the line to? That's when the bully or bullies themselves begin the sink or swim process, and learn that life isn't how they percieve it to be. Getting what you want through aggression, isn't on (although TPTB still try it on, don't they!), it always reaches a tipping point.

For bullies, that tipping point, the crystal clear moment of clarity will ONLY come, once they realise there are NO victims.

Then the penny drops...and the bullying stops.

We don't need to 'root out bullies'...the entire school are bullies waiting in the wings. They are Human.

We need instead to bolster the people who would otherwise become victims, no victims..no bullies either.

Guts. It's that simple.

reply to post by MysterX



Hi, not specifically addressing anybody, just there was a distinct air in quite a few comments of blaming the victims of bullying.

I mean, bullying was bad in my day, but it must be so much worse now that kids have access to mobile phones and facebook and the internet. I can't really get my head around how much torture there must be out there.

And while I agree that punching them in the face is often a good plan, it's often not really possible these days. Kid punches a bully in the face? A couple of people catch it on their mobiles and show it to the authorities? And who gets in trouble, the bully? Not so much, it'll be the kid that finally snapped.

I have zero tolerance for bullying. It ruins lives, and kills many many children. I strongly think it needs to be stamped out.

Painterz
reply to post by MysterX

 

Hi, not specifically addressing anybody, just there was a distinct air in quite a few comments of blaming the victims of bullying.

I mean, bullying was bad in my day, but it must be so much worse now that kids have access to mobile phones and facebook and the internet. I can't really get my head around how much torture there must be out there.

And while I agree that punching them in the face is often a good plan, it's often not really possible these days. Kid punches a bully in the face? A couple of people catch it on their mobiles and show it to the authorities? And who gets in trouble, the bully? Not so much, it'll be the kid that finally snapped.

I have zero tolerance for bullying. It ruins lives, and kills many many children. I strongly think it needs to be stamped out.

Didnt really think of that but today everyone's connected and saying something mean doesnt have the same impact as posting it on facebook where it becomes a permanent record.

reply to post by Painterz


Bullying is never going to be stomped out. The pecking order is everywhere. Humans are so ignorant, they are always about trying to stamp out symptoms, and not getting at the roots. It's futile, try running a garden that way. We humans like to think we are seperate from nature, that is ignorance.

We are trying to create a vanilla world, that can never exist. People are always going to be born and raised with strengths and weaknesses. We can not keep trying to pound everyone into a generic mold, it makes things worse.

reply to post by SadistNocturne


I don't know, bullying is akin to physically attacking someone. (And in many cases, bullying is physical.)

Someone mentioned a "three strikes your out" system when it comes to bullying. I think that's a marvelous idea. Bullying can be some of the most heart wrenching experiences not only to go through, but to watch. Many people who are bullied snap and either harms themselves, or others. Sometimes, the bullies were the bullied. We've been far too lax when it comes to bullying and need to put our foot down.

I applaud some parents who really nips it in the bud, like the family who made their young son who was a bully wear a sign to let everyone know. And like I mentioned above, sometimes the bullies are the bullied. It creates a horrible circle, much like spousal abuse does with children. It needs to stop.

My daughter has been bullied from time to time, nothing major but still very unpleasant. I too have been bullied as a child from time to time.

It's very upsetting and it lasts a long time even after the bullying stops. So I understand why so many have ended their lives after bullying. And it's heart breaking. I don't know the answer, but the three strikes you're out rule sounds like at least like a beginning of a plan. I hope someone who has the power to implement something like this will.

reply to post by Auricom


Why do we see so many people snapping these days? So many laws and rules out there. More added every day, and it seems to only get worse. Because all these rules and laws have the opposite of the intended effect. People that bully use them to their advantage. People are left with no choice but to take it, until they just cannot anymore. The end result is always violence, when someone feels helpless like that. Boxed into a corner. Sometimes the violence is aimed outward, and we get columbine. Sometimes the violence is aimed inward, and we get cutters, anorexics and suicide etc.

TKDRL
Getting good grades is not it. Making comments about other's grades, saying "duh" and s'n-word'ing when a wrong answer is given when called upon etc. Making people feel stupid. None of the jocks hassled me any just because I pulled straight A's.

How is anyone but you seeing your grades unless you are showing them?
In all the years I went to school grades were considered confidential as were all student records.

S'n-word'ing?
I will bet that if you look around the room at who's “s'n-word'ing” when you make a stupid remark its everyone, even the other jocks, not just the smart kids. Of course you will trump up hatred against those who are the easiest to bully because they are the easiest ones to target to get your revenge and make you feel better. You're anger toward them is nothing less than misdirected anger at yourself for not studying or paying attention that got you laughed at to begin with.

TKDRL
I was always a pretty nice guy, and a bit of a chameleon, I could get along with just about everyone.

So was I, and I also went to a very affluent school as a middle class student. I was into computers, drafting, engineering, sciences, but I also played on the football team. Never once did I see a “brain” pick on an “athlete” or other popular person because the “brains” would be too honored to even be acknowledged by them, let alone that they would be too afraid of the “punishment” for giving one a hard time.