Both sides agree Senate budget deal

reply to post by beezzer

Isn't that what the dems (and republicans) are doing by raising the debt ceiling and spending into a 17 trillion dollar deficit?

To say that defaulting on the debt, is the same thing as increasing the debt limit, or the debt itself, is dangerously inaccurate.

One is a situation of complete unknowns, that every economist on the planet says will lead to disaster.

The other is an ongoing problem that although IS an issue, is manageable for the time being and can still be fixed.

Let's not forget that until they actually start looking at what really costs the US money, entitlements and defense spending your economy is going to be stagnant or on the decline regardless.

If you actually let the country default, you may in fact loose everything and I'm pretty sure it's harder to rebuild from a complete economic collapse then a recession.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Ya know the idea "of playing chicken with the countries future" is at the feet of Reid and the senate. Where has that budget been that they are required to make? Can't overspend if you don't have a budget. All the tea party has done is shined a light on the massive disfunction in the house and senate. This constant raising of the debt ceiling is not a good thing, yet everyone has been grumbling over it. What has the current administration and their lackeys in congress done? They sure were against it when the guy with the big r next to his name was the prez, now it's tearing of the hair and gnashing of teeth when they needthe debit ceiling raised. As we have seen with the ACA they just flush the money they spend down the ole toilet. Neither side is doing anything to help the problem, the democrats are acting as if they actually are.

I'll admit it, I wanted America to default, this notion of mines is not borne out of hate for your country but of a naive sense of hope for your future and your kids future, I was even dumb enough to believe even if it was just for a second that Obama might have finally been taking responsibility and dealing with your problems. I believe the alternative of not defaulting is far worse, the status quo is fatally irresponsible of us to carry on at this level of borrowing.

I live in Scotland but I am not so short sighted as to not see that what happens in America has implications on the rest of the world, I'm 26 at the end of the month and I still don't have plans to have kids, hell I refuse to bring other life forms into this mess until I can go to sleep at night knowing I've cleared up as much of this mess that my ancestors and I have made as I can and until then I can not think about my future, there will be no quality of life for our kids if they are only gonna be born into the shackles of debt that we created how the hell on earth can we be happy at this news knowing all that we are doing passing our problems on to innocent kids.

What hope do we have of a generation absorbed in angry birds and Facebook and conditioned to believe that this is how life is, I think we are the last generation that can do something about this without completely destroying our way of life. Today was a bad day, I'm ashamed at the decisions we make in this society, and if you think putting of the inevitable was a good decision then you damned well better wake up and smell the coffee.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Cmon Mr. Cruz, just screw it all up again for your personal power grab. Ya know the Koch brothers have their hands so far up your ass Kermit the Frog is offering you lube....be the puppet your meant to be cause i really don't want you to be President.



Do it for the people* Mr. Cruz.


* - The people being those who can buy Ted Cruz's opinion.

reply to post by hangedman13


Yeah, no it's not.

The GOP are the ones who demanded this whole Obamacare removal fiasco in the first place, that was their ultimatum and they sure as hell didn't take any time to back away from it, but none the less, the opposition is ALWAYS the party to blame for obstructionist behavior like we see now.

The Dems did the same thing back when the GOP were in control. It's not about me choosing to believe one side is better, or more right than another ideology wise, it's a matter of recognizing that an opposition government, with a means and a willingness to delay everything, can and will do that.

~Tenth

beezzer

tothetenthpower


You can't play chicken with a country's economy. Regardless of 'principles'.

~Tenth

Isn't that what the dems (and republicans) are doing by raising the debt ceiling and spending into a 17 trillion dollar deficit?

Last night which would be the 15, October broadcast of Coast to Coast am (C2C) was devoted to finance and the 17 trillion debt and the 220 trillion unfunded liabilities we are facing as a nation. Anyone who thinks raising the debt limit is good, is in it for themselves and not the future of America or their decedents. Good broadcast for those who can catch it. Truth or fiction, the future will tell.

beezzer

tothetenthpower
Here's a weird thought I had.

"I hope the House votes it down."

Not really, but it would just go to show at what lengths the Tea Party is willing to disrupt the average American's lives for a pissing match of ideology.

~Tenth

Or principles?

?????????????????????????????????

What Principles? If they want to cut spending further than the sequestration...which remains in effect and will involve more cuts Jan 1st...then do it through spending cuts?

I fail to see the "principles" in refusing to pay the bills you owe???

Is that how you tighten the budget in your home? Stop paying bills?

Debt to GDP and budget deficits are falling at a near historic clip..

U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff

Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.

In fact, outside of that post-WWII era, the only time the deficit has fallen faster was when the economy relapsed in 1937, turning the Great Depression into a decade-long affair.

news.investors.com...

So please stop with the Fear Mongering over the debt. We have cut deep and continue to do so...The Deficit is SHRINKING and damn quickly compared to past financial crisis.

tothetenthpower
Here's a weird thought I had.

"I hope the House votes it down."

Not really, but it would just go to show at what lengths the Tea Party is willing to disrupt the average American's lives for a pissing match of ideology.

~Tenth

I agree this is not the right time to be arguing about policy, but when is this government (I don't care what we label them), going to address this debt? Is it even possible to do it without leverage such as this?

Or this could have happened because there have been no concessions to obamacare and this argument bled into the end of the fiscal year.

Point is - it needs to be looked at hard. This forced insurance (as one example), is going to break a lot of people. It will help a lot but they are not looking at the other ones - who will ultimately be criminalized because they have to choose between feeding their kids and following the law. Or they could just stop working and join the system, which will further add to the debt. It needs to be fixed "before" the damage is done. It is just as much Obama's fault for not giving an inch on reasonable requests. Question is - did they begin trying long before? If not - that is not ok.

reply to post by Indigo5


I started to say that those in DC can't be so effing stupid that they can't plan ahead and see that they might over-spend.

Then I remembered that we're talking about politicians, and yes, they are that effing stupid.

We take in more than we owe. There was never any danger of us defaulting.

This was just scare ginned up to push for more damned spending.

Hey.

Celebrate!

You progressives won!

MystikMushroom
reply to post by xuenchen

 

You can only increase manufacturing if the corporations that make stuff agree to ramp up production.

The only way they will agree do to so is if there is profit in it for their shareholders.

The only way there will be profit in it for the company is if Americans have money to spend on their products.

I suppose the government could impose insanely high tariffs and taxes on imports, making it virtually unprofitable to import cheap goods from overseas...but I'm not sure that would cause companies to re-open factories or build new ones.

'Taxes' and 'Tariffs' on imports isn't the answer, and neither is any increase in any taxes.

'Limits' are.

U.S. manufacturing and production increases would benefit the internal interests, not the external (foreign).

Those increases would increase revenues and reduce unemployment.

U.S. exporting would also increase.

The answer is to find internal solutions, not solutions offered as tangents by external banking influences.

Limiting and eliminating specific imports is within the powers of Congress.

reply to post by 727Sky


What is C2C?

reply to post by beezzer


If the Progressives won would that make the losing side the Regressives?

As in, let us all regress back to the 1950's where white men ruled the world, women stayed in the home, the "colored" were segregated and homosexuals were still just deviants.

Question.

What are the details of this latest *deal* ?

Does anybody actually have the specifics ?

All I'm hearing and seeing is chatter by Senate members and NGO people.

reply to post by xuenchen


These specifics?
ABC

Despite initial Republican demands for the defunding of the health care law known as Obamacare, the pending agreement makes only one modest change in the program. It requires individuals and families seeking subsidies to purchase coverage to verify their incomes before qualifying.

It was expected to mirror a deal the leaders had neared Monday. That agreement was described as extending the debt limit through Feb. 7, immediately reopening the government fully and keeping agencies running until Jan. 15 - leaving lawmakers clashing over the same disputes in the near future.

It also set a mid-December deadline for bipartisan budget negotiators to report on efforts to reach compromise on longer-term issues like spending cuts. And it likely would require the Obama administration to certify that it can verify the income of people who qualify for federal subsidies for medical insurance under the 2010 health care law.

reply to post by Thorneblood


All I'm seeing and hearing is this;

Boehner and the House Republican leadership met in a different part of the Capitol to plan their next move. A spokesman, Michael Steel, said afterward that no decision had been made "about how or when a potential Senate agreement could be voted on in the House."

No indication of anything.

Sounds like more malarkey.

And, did the Senate actually vote on anything ???

Thorneblood
reply to post by beezzer

 

If the Progressives won would that make the losing side the Regressives?

As in, let us all regress back to the 1950's where white men ruled the world, women stayed in the home, the "colored" were segregated and homosexuals were still just deviants.

Ahhh, ad hominem attacks now?

(rolling eyes)

Yes, we have just 2 choices. Segregation or total government control over our liv-. . . . wait. . . wasn't segregation a government plan?

Progs. Can't shoot 'em, can't hit them in the heads with shovels.

(rolling eyes)

reply to post by xuenchen


Ive been saying that we are under economic attack since I was 12. Its just too obvious.
And there's always tiny little stories that come out of no where and on the outside, have nothing in common. But when connected, to me its clear that we are being picked apart from the inside out.

Im gonna say its Russia and China. With the help of a few other countries.

But, On Topic: Big suprise!

reply to post by xuenchen


Yes, but how can the government force companies to move their factories back to the USA and hire American workers? Isn't that a little...socialist?

Restricting imports would hurt the very manufacturing companies that you want to increase internal production. They make their cheap crap that we all buy in places like China. If we can't import it from China, those companies will look elsewhere for customers (India maybe?)

I didn't really see exactly HOW your idea is supposed to work. I don't think it's half bad, but I just don't see the actual steps the government would take to achieve it. I'd like to see more manufacturing jobs back in the USA, but we have a problem...

Americans can't compete with sweat shop labor prices. Americans want a weekend, 40 hour work weeks, vacation time and a wage that they can afford to live on. These ideas are completely foreign and have never been seen by Chinese workers, they're just happy to be making ANY money.

Americans are either going to have accept lower pay, longer hours and completely re-think their work ethic, or we as a nation are going to have raise the world standard of living to more closely align with our own.

I mean, sheesh -- Americans consume more energy per capita than any other on Earth. In a world where billions of people don't even have "3 hots and a cot" -- we live pretty darn good. Eventually this is going to have to change, as America is making the world economy top heavy.

khimbar
reply to post by 727Sky

 

What is C2C?

Coast to Coast AM, radio program that's broadcasted throughout the country around 10 p.m. Pacific time. George Noory hosts and topics are ATS related, though not done by ATS.
Coast to Coast
I heard the first half about finances last night. Most of what the guest said has been said on ATS.

He explained that we only default if Obama's says he doesn't want to pay our bills. We have enough revenue.

khimbar
reply to post by 727Sky

 

What is C2C?

Just in case you are not joking, C2C is Coast to Coast AM.

...and if you are joking then disregard.

-SAP-