The Shutdown: The best thing that could have happened??

The only way out is for all sectors to cut down heavily on borrowing and spending for several decades. That means the demise of the middle class, a consumer spending economy, the military, much of infrastructure, and much of the wealth of the financial elite, which consists of money.

It is unlikely that all sectors will agree to this.

reply to post by Xtrozero

Edit to add yet again:
Yours sounds like the words of a politician willing to keep kicking the can down the road... until the next election.

I have been 'paying in'(paying income tax/Social Security) to the scam for 36 years.

Does that count as 'vested' ?

How 'vested' are you in the system, if I 'just got into the game'? If you are that old, you probably already drew out much more than you paid in....plus interest (haha) if there had been money in a fund to gather interest!


Everyone likes to talk about what we are doing to our grandchildren. How about them? How will they ever get anything when I doubt that my children even will?

Slow evolution that hurts a long time or a quick evolution that hurts much but is over quickly.

I am a pull of the band aid directly kind of person and think the slow removal brings more pain.

Erongaricuaro
Love when people refer to Social Security as government relief and such. The Social Security fund OWNS one of the largest portions of government debt - several times over what China and Japan combined own of it. My employers and myself paid into that for decades and I expect to receive checks in a couple years. Default on that and WE OWN this country, so I expect to get a little respect when the "authorities" come around making demands and acting like bad-asses. Sure, don't pay me, but then leave my butt alone and don't bother me anymore.

I really don't think most people understand social security so you would be doing a lot of educating on that one if it came down to it. Your right - we would own the country as collateral - in theory. But I never signed a contract for this so not sure what I've agreed (retract that word)....been forced to do on with this one. Only knowledge comes from education, reading, and generations passing it onto me. It's an investment or trust fund for those who pay into it (or their dependents). If they have added any clauses to say they get to keep it I'm not aware of that so....your theory sits well with me - we have collateral if they blow our trust fund. Sounds good to me.

butcherguy

Yours sounds like the words of a politician willing to keep kicking the can down the road... until the next election.

I have been 'paying in'(paying income tax/Social Security) to the scam for 36 years.

Does that count as 'vested' ?

I have military retirement, VA, 401k, IRAs, stocks, SS, savings, private sector job etc too, about 40 years worth of working that I don't think I would like to see a full reset just to do...I do not know what....

The reason I replied as I did is because you post is typical of a person (normally young and just starting out) with nothing to lose, so they are quick to suggest just reset it all.

In your case I would need to ask you what is it you have to lose?

I'm all about reducing the Government by a great deal, I'm not about destroying it to see what may come out of the ashes....

reply to post by nwtrucker


The biggest lesson learned by the American people is that during the shutdown the vast majority of Americans were not affected in any way whatsoever.

It really proved to the American people that most of Federal Government is a huge waste of money.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You are correct. Promises made must be kept.

Social Security was a promise to set aside the money you put in for you, advertised to the American people as a retirement fund. Congress screwed that up royally when they decided to steal the money from retirees to put in the general fund. Those promises must be kept, a restart is good, but make the cutoff far enough away from retirement so as not to do great harm to those who thought and were promised the government would "hold" their money and give it back to them with interest for retirement.

Military pensions and VA payments are also promises made by the American government to people who put their lives on the line for the defense of the nation. These promises must never be "reset" as who would join the military if they knew that if they were injured or when they got "too old" they would be put out on the street and abandoned by the very people they gave up so much for to protect.

All other government pensions should be honored also, and a new 401K system put in place for younger workers so they will know the 401K money can not be stolen by the President or Congress.

A reset is needed, but promises need to be kept to people whose very existence relies on those promises.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I'm all about reducing the Government by a great deal

Who do we have in the federal government that will allow it to be reduced?

What other way is there to reduce it, if our elected officials refuse to?

One way of looking at the people that vehemently hold that they deserve all of what they have paid into SS and other federal entitlement programs is 'selfish', like it or not. Especially when it is exactly those entitlement programs that will rob their children and grandchildren of a solid economic future.

reply to post by nwtrucker


The Shutdown: The best thing that could have happened??

I think so.. I hope they Do Not reach a decision at All. I want the US economy to Crash hard and if that causes other world governments/ economies to crash then so be it - they should not have based their strength on the US dollar.. a dollar that isn't theirs.

In turn, we should keep our noses out of the worlds business. This is WHY the dollar tanked.. we spread it around too much and didn't protect our own economy by keeoing our money in country.

You people who want this agreement to happen are Not thinking clearly.

We have all agreed how the US is in the toilet and we need to take this country back haven't we?

Well people - This is our chance! Dont you see.. we need this country destroyed so we can rebuild it again - for the people, by the people.

We don't have a good chance of doing that by violence - we cannot overthrow the government by force I don't believe - never get all of the people to consent at the same time. So..

THIS IS OUR ONLY CHANCE !!

Sure people will hurt. I say LET THEM. We will rebuild if we get this chance and in the long run We The People can make this new America a better America.

Xtrozero

butcherguy

Yours sounds like the words of a politician willing to keep kicking the can down the road... until the next election.

I have been 'paying in'(paying income tax/Social Security) to the scam for 36 years.

Does that count as 'vested' ?

I have military retirement, VA, 401k, IRAs, stocks, SS, savings, private sector job etc too, about 40 years worth of working that I don't think I would like to see a full reset just to do...I do not know what....

The reason I replied as I did is because you post is typical of a person (normally young and just starting out) with nothing to lose, so they are quick to suggest just reset it all.

In your case I would need to ask you what is it you have to lose?

I'm all about reducing the Government by a great deal, I'm not about destroying it to see what may come out of the ashes....

edit on 16-10-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

So you care more about your money than you do about your country? And you fought for this country - WHY.. just to make a buck? Sounds like it to me.

Sure that offends you. it's supposed to - Cause you to think a little bit more.

I wanna reset everything and I'm 45 years old. Not young and thinking rashly.

You really wanna serve this country ? Then don't think about yourself. Think about the future children of this country and where they will be if we don't stop this tyranny NOW. Your old enough i'm sure.. haven't you been keeping up with the changes in the last 20 years? Haven't you noticed this is Not the America you enlisted to defend?

If I, a non military man is willing to stick through the hard times to fix whats wrong with this country ( even if it means I'm homeless and penniless - and I do own my own home, two of them) but a military man wont - what does that say about us?

Ok, the Republicans caved in. For now! all the way to February ... and it starts again.

More info forthcoming on the A.C.A.

More "no change" between then and now.

More people fed up then than now...

this is FAR from over.....

butcherguy
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I'm all about reducing the Government by a great deal

Who do we have in the federal government that will allow it to be reduced?

What other way is there to reduce it, if our elected officials refuse to?

One way of looking at the people that vehemently hold that they deserve all of what they have paid into SS and other federal entitlement programs is 'selfish', like it or not. Especially when it is exactly those entitlement programs that will rob their children and grandchildren of a solid economic future.

I must say we deserve what we get. We vote into office those screwing us over and we continue to vote them back into office. Barney Frank had to retire not to get voted back in and he was basically the cause of the whole housing market crash, but hey lets keep these F*ers in office.


So what do we do? We could actually vote... but the problem is we are out number and if we revolt we are still out numbered.

My answer is to achieve in life to where it doesn't matter who is in office I live well. I really do not care who gets in I live well, so that is my answer to it all.