Baking Soda Cures Cancer???

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posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by coolcatt
 





I believe that sort of thinking just doesn't help, cancer or no cancer TRY it and then come back and tell us how things went for you.



I'm sorry if the truth is negative thinking in your eyes. In mine it is far worse to spread total nonsense such as this to people that have terminal cancer like me.

I was first diagnosed in June 2011 with stage IV metastatic melanoma. Its a very aggressive very deadly form of skin cancer.

I did baking soda, I did liposomal vitamin c, I did an fresh fruits/veggies diet, I quit smoking cigarrettes (even though the kind of cancer I had was not even from that) I started taking things like Turmeric and more herbs, laid off processed foods totally. And this was after I initially did 5.5 months of chemo at MD Anderson and gamma knife, and a whole host of surgeries and treatments that cured me the first time around.

And still the Melanoma keeps coming back. Of everything the chemo was the only thing that was effective in killing my tumors. Nothing else can really prevent it.

Right now I just had back surgury to remove two tumors from my spinal cord. I just finished three weeks of radiation treatments and feel like hell so forgive me if my post comes off as sounding short, but really, please do a little research before you go around telling everyone not to do chemo and try baking soda instead or some other nonsense.




posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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The Acid-Alkaline Myth: Part 1
chriskresser.com...



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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I had a conversation a few months ago with a friend of mine who is a bio chemist that works in a lab to develop cures for cancer. This man is one of many scientists who are responsible for some of the latest cures/treatments. Below is his response to my question about alkaline diets. There's no conspiracy. There are actually some brilliant people out there working to create cures for this hideous disease.



"To be more detailed, the pH of what you eat means next to nothing in terms of health for 99% of the population. There are exceptions to this, but pretty much, its bunk.

What we're really talking about is compartmentalization. Your body is not a continuous space. Its a mesh of segregated tissues comprising segregated systems. When you eat, the pH of your stomach environment drops to approximately 2-3. There is absolutely nothing you could possibly eat that would even compare to that high of acidity. Well, nothing that you'd survive. I personally don't make a habit of drinking battery acid.

So, EVERYTHING you eat is instantly acidified. This is required because the proteases in your gastric juice that are responsible for breaking down food are optimized to this pH level. In fact, they would not function otherwise. So that's the first knock right there. If "alkaline" food actually made a difference, you'd not be able to digest it.

Then, once you stomach empties the contents into the intestine, pancreatic secretions neutralize the pH, rendering it safe to travel the GI tract.

These pH diet people try to make these claims that you can do urine tests and that's somehow indicative of blood pH. Because really that's what they're interested in, blood pH.

1) Urine pH is absolutely irrelevant to blood pH. Urine pH is a matter of kidney function (more on this in a minute).

2) Blood pH is so tightly controlled there is virtually nothing a healthy person can do to throw it out in any dangerous way. Blood pH is regulated by your kidneys through filtration, by the blood acid/base buffer system, and more actively via respiration. Hemoglobin binds 3 molecules; oxygen, hydrogen and BPG (2,3-bisphosphoglyceric acid). CO2 actually doesn't bind to Hb but rather is transported in plasma as HCO3-. BPG is not really related to this discussion but is a molecule that binds to Hb in low oxygen environments and decreases affinity of O2 to Hb (thus increasing O2 in the tissues). Think, mountain climbing or free diving without an oxygen tank.

So Hb works in 2 states. This is based on the molecular arrangement of Hb and is related to O2 binding. T state is deoxygenated Hb, R state is oxygenated. T state has low O2 affinity, R state is high. The way Hb works, is that 1 heme can bind 4 oxygen molecules. Once that first is bound, the Hb molecule changes is conformation (shape) from T, to R. This R configuration (R=Relaxed) opens up the 3 subsequent binding sites and those empty spaces bind very rapidly. Thus the R state's high affinity.

This is linked with pH; remember I said the other molecule that binds to Hb is hydrogen, specifically H+ ions. Which is what pH actually is, a measure of H+ ion concentration. The lower the pH, the more the ions. H+ binding to Hb favors a T state. Thus, in lower pH (meaning higher H+), less O2 binds to Hb. This means more O2 is in the tissues. I realize this might be confusing, but think of it like this. When you are working out, you're producing a bunch of CO2 and H+ ions. You also are using up a lot of O2 and thus, need that oxygen in the organs, its not doing you any good stuck in the blood.

The opposite is true when Oxygen is in high supply. More oxygen is bound up in the Hb, leaving less space for H+ to bind.

So, a couple things should be apparent to you at this point. One, notice how respiratory rate seems to be implicated in blood pH? 2nd, notice this whole time I've been talking about boundmolecules and Hb? The blood system as a whole, is consistent. These molecules are there, regardless. The changes are based on whether at one point they're bound vs unbound. So the pH is relatively constant within a very narrow range of constraints. This is vitally important because notice how much an impact H+ ions have on your body's ability to carry oxygen, its literally life or death. So ANY changes in blood pH can become VERY VERY bad. But yet we live everyday problem free.

With regards to respiration, you can (for a very short time period) change your blood pH. Hold your breath for about 20 seconds. During that time the pH is being altered (and quickly corrected for). Opposite holds true as well. When people that are hyperventilating black out, what is actually happening is their body is losing too much CO2 and the pH is being altered (become more alkaline). When they pass out and breathing slows down, their body automatically corrects itself. So not only is it tightly controlled, its so tightly controlled your body does it when you're not even conscious.

I did mention exceptions to this. Remember I said kidneys also control pH? This is long term regulation. Now people suffering from a depreciated kidney function very much can have adverse effects based on what they eat. They pretty much have adverse effects based on anything though. Renal failure is very serious business.

As for cancer. There's been stuff shown that cancer cells "favor" an acidic environment in culture. And there's been stuff showing that altering the pH to a more alkaline level can kill the cells, in culture. Here's the problem. It kills everything. This is all in culture mind you. This mechanism, for reasons I've already explained make absolutely no difference in vivo because there's nothing we can do to instantly turn someones body "alkaline."

So with regards to diet, I don't recommend any diet based on pH. I don't think its a relevant consideration.

Summary: Blood pH is so tightly controlled that this is an irrelevant matter for any healthy individual. If you're up on chemistry, at least enough to understand le Chatelier's principle of chemical equilibrium, this is the blood pH buffer equation that basically summarizes what I just said:

H+(aq) + HCO3-(aq) H2CO3(aq) H2O (l) + CO2(g)

Anytime you push the equation one way, so long as it doesn't exceed the constraints of the buffer system, your body will alter respiration and such to correct back toward equilibrium."



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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s&f really enjoyed watching and reading this post. i find these things fascinating as i have always wondered if cancer was created for population control. the bit i always struggle with is why do they treat cancer with radiation when radiation causes it? baffling things . cancer killed two of my family members and im always interested to see alternative treatments . a few years ago i worked in a care home for the elderly and a lady was diagnosed and told she he 6 months to live but because she had mental health problems she did not believe she had cancer and she never suffered with it had no treatment and four years later was still there she is probably still alive now the human mind can be a very powerful tool.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by spartacus699
 


Watched this myself some time ago and how this was suppressed, it has to do with a fungus called candida and how an itallian physician found that most cancer tumours were overrun by this fungus so he tried to clear the fungus with some success though he was later struck off and sued.
A few years after a surgeon whom himself had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer changed his chemotherepy cathater with a solution he had made based on the other doctors work and cured himself but big pharma can not make a profit this way so it was suppressed.
It does not work for bone cancer apparantly as the solution can not get at the cancer but it works by using the very basic salt that the fungus can not adapt to and changing the homeostasis of the body to alkaline makes the fungus die.
I think this was on the ATS a while ago but good to refesh people as there are alway's new members whom have not heard of it.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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Careful about baking soda's, most named brands mix it with aluminum which is very bad for us.

Stay away from arm and hammer if you plan ingesting it or applying it topically.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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Cancerwarrior
reply to post by coolcatt
 





I believe that sort of thinking just doesn't help, cancer or no cancer TRY it and then come back and tell us how things went for you.



I'm sorry if the truth is negative thinking in your eyes. In mine it is far worse to spread total nonsense such as this to people that have terminal cancer like me.

I was first diagnosed in June 2011 with stage IV metastatic melanoma. Its a very aggressive very deadly form of skin cancer.

I did baking soda, I did liposomal vitamin c, I did an fresh fruits/veggies diet, I quit smoking cigarrettes (even though the kind of cancer I had was not even from that) I started taking things like Turmeric and more herbs, laid off processed foods totally. And this was after I initially did 5.5 months of chemo at MD Anderson and gamma knife, and a whole host of surgeries and treatments that cured me the first time around.

And still the Melanoma keeps coming back. Of everything the chemo was the only thing that was effective in killing my tumors. Nothing else can really prevent it.

Right now I just had back surgury to remove two tumors from my spinal cord. I just finished three weeks of radiation treatments and feel like hell so forgive me if my post comes off as sounding short, but really, please do a little research before you go around telling everyone not to do chemo and try baking soda instead or some other nonsense.


I hear what you're saying man but when it comes to threads like this people shot this # down so quick.When i wrote that comment i know there's gonna be so backlash from ATS'er. you did not say in you're post about trying this. YOU should have....Cancer has to be explained some how and for this thread was close....



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by coolcatt
 


There are many types of cancer and 50 years or so ago it meant a plethora of illnesses as they knew even less then, Some cancer is down to chromosone damage and may be linked to radiation, some is down to diet but this doctor in italy found nearly all cancer tumours he had excised as he was once one of itals top cancer specialists, was white and not healthy pink or black when he had washed the blood away so he studied them and found all had higher than normal Candida fungus (or a varient of candida) well and truly out of control, this had already been noted but he cannon explanation was it was taking advantage of the tumour, he asked what if it is actually aggrevating the tumour and making it grow.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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Flagging, starring, posting, you name it I need to keep this for future reference because I know one day and probably soon I will be fighting cancer of some sort.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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woodwardjnr



It's very very easy to say what you would do if you were diagnosed with cancer, but until you are, your in no position to comment. I'm getting sick of people firing off a list of alternatives, then going back to their happy undiagnosed lives,thinking they are actually helping.



You clearly have no idea where am coming from.And i have every position to comment what ever i would like to.Just cos i don't post on ATS things in fine detail as you have.

Yet again a fine thread being turned into something it not...


S+F



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by coolcatt
 


It's not a fine thread if its promoting unscientific unproven information. It's potentially dangerous.

I've got a terminal brain tumour and am on certain medications. How would you feel if I loaded myself up with baking soda, that caused my medical medications not to work, causing me to get really ill. Just for the sake of giviving it a try?

Not too smart I imagine



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


Liposomal C is marvelous stuff, no doubt. It's eradicated dental infections for me more efficiently than anti-biotics.

One thing, though, is that home-made liposomal C doesn't have that many liposomes. They need to be 60 nanometers across (or teensy-weensy in layman's terms) to cross cell walls, and getting that from a jewelry cleaner is ... problematic.

Some tests by a molecular biologist I know showed the very best liposomes from a home brew he was aware of came out at just under 60% encapsulation... that method was promoted on youtube by a veterinarian, btw.

The best lab stuff had, according to his scanning microscope, from 70% to 90% encapsulated, with the average home liposomes coming in at 25-30% (or less). Even when encapsulated, though, most of the home-made stuff were over the 60 nanometer limit needed to slip through the cell walls. He called it "Vitamin C Mayonnaise."

No harm in that one still gets vit C, but if you're seriously going for liposomes, the lab stuff, shot out at thousands of PSI against lipid coated sheets, isn't that much more expensive when one factors in equipment, time and supplies... and efficacy.

But vit-C in any form is nearly miraculous stuff. Quite weird that only 3 or 4 animals don't make their own, we and great apes being 2 of them... how did THAT happen?



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


This is why the doctor in italy was struck off and sued, he had beed using the treatment without official permission, he had some success but also some failure, I would recommend against self medication but it is an area that need more unbiased (and Big pharma are in it for the profit not to help people) into derivatives medication that may be used alongside the other medications, self medication may interfere with those proscribed medications so you have made a very valuable point and please god you get better.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


No, baking soda cannot cure cancer and if one understands physiology, one understands why. All it does is act as a buffer and raises PH. However, the body has several mechanisms, including the lungs and the kidneys, designed to keep us within a very strict PH limit. This is known as homeostasis. If PH is too high or too low, most functions and processes fail. Oral bicarbonate ingestion would not change your bodily PH at all and even IV bicarbonate (as used in resuscitation efforts) only raises the PH for a short time.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


LOL

You have turned this into a I've got cancer you ant so.......very sad indeed

Good luck



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


The phillosophy of that surgeon was not to cure the cancer but to remove the Fungus he believed was irritating the tumour and helping it to spread.
He did not use commercial baking soda but a medical grade solution and poultice he made himself, one patient whom had skin cancer on his head reported that after several week's his skin tumour dropped off like a dry scab though admittedly this may be down to a localised cell death caused by osmotic evacuation he did however suffer no relapse.

I do not know how he applied his internal treatment but I suppose localised Alkaline saturation may have performed much the same function as radio therapy in that it may have caused a local cell die off but without the peripheral damage as the healthy tissue may have been able to more readily respond in balancing its homeostasis but as you and those of us whom have had loved one's succumb to this terrible disease know, chemotherapy harms both the good and the bad cell's as it effectively stop's all new cell production and this in turn if the cancer is not beaten by it leaves the patient in a more vulnerable position as there body can no longer resist the cancer and it can then spread more aggressively.

So if the local cell die off is the case is it not a viable alternative to both chemo and radio therapy as well as intrusve surgery which by it's very nature damages the good tissue to get to the bad tissue.

This definitely REQUIRES more ETHICAL non profic motivated research.

Logically speaking there is something to this but YOU CAN NOT SELF MEDICATE as you do not have access to the correct materials or know how this surgeon applied his treatment.

Remember he was a surgeon and cancer speciallist so may also have used other techniques in conjunction with this.
edit on 14-10-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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coolcatt
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


LOL

You have turned this into a I've got cancer you ant so.......very sad indeed

Good luck





Laugh it up my friend, terminal cancer is very sad, recommending unscientific self medication is dangerous. But who cares about that, ignore the science and focus on your unproven conspiracies.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


There you go again putting words in ones mouth. I lol at the way you handle my comment not at you're illness..But you know best.



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 01:16 PM
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GoldenBrain71
I had a conversation a few months ago with a friend of mine who is a bio chemist that works in a lab to develop cures for cancer. This man is one of many scientists who are responsible for some of the latest cures/treatments. Below is his response to my question about alkaline diets. There's no conspiracy. There are actually some brilliant people out there working to create cures for this hideous disease.



"To be more detailed, the pH of what you eat means next to nothing in terms of health for 99% of the population. There are exceptions to this, but pretty much, its bunk.

What we're really talking about is compartmentalization. Your body is not a continuous space. Its a mesh of segregated tissues comprising segregated systems. When you eat, the pH of your stomach environment drops to approximately 2-3. There is absolutely nothing you could possibly eat that would even compare to that high of acidity. Well, nothing that you'd survive. I personally don't make a habit of drinking battery acid.

So, EVERYTHING you eat is instantly acidified. This is required because the proteases in your gastric juice that are responsible for breaking down food are optimized to this pH level. In fact, they would not function otherwise. So that's the first knock right there. If "alkaline" food actually made a difference, you'd not be able to digest it.

Then, once you stomach empties the contents into the intestine, pancreatic secretions neutralize the pH, rendering it safe to travel the GI tract.

These pH diet people try to make these claims that you can do urine tests and that's somehow indicative of blood pH. Because really that's what they're interested in, blood pH.

1) Urine pH is absolutely irrelevant to blood pH. Urine pH is a matter of kidney function (more on this in a minute).

2) Blood pH is so tightly controlled there is virtually nothing a healthy person can do to throw it out in any dangerous way. Blood pH is regulated by your kidneys through filtration, by the blood acid/base buffer system, and more actively via respiration. Hemoglobin binds 3 molecules; oxygen, hydrogen and BPG (2,3-bisphosphoglyceric acid). CO2 actually doesn't bind to Hb but rather is transported in plasma as HCO3-. BPG is not really related to this discussion but is a molecule that binds to Hb in low oxygen environments and decreases affinity of O2 to Hb (thus increasing O2 in the tissues). Think, mountain climbing or free diving without an oxygen tank.

So Hb works in 2 states. This is based on the molecular arrangement of Hb and is related to O2 binding. T state is deoxygenated Hb, R state is oxygenated. T state has low O2 affinity, R state is high. The way Hb works, is that 1 heme can bind 4 oxygen molecules. Once that first is bound, the Hb molecule changes is conformation (shape) from T, to R. This R configuration (R=Relaxed) opens up the 3 subsequent binding sites and those empty spaces bind very rapidly. Thus the R state's high affinity.

This is linked with pH; remember I said the other molecule that binds to Hb is hydrogen, specifically H+ ions. Which is what pH actually is, a measure of H+ ion concentration. The lower the pH, the more the ions. H+ binding to Hb favors a T state. Thus, in lower pH (meaning higher H+), less O2 binds to Hb. This means more O2 is in the tissues. I realize this might be confusing, but think of it like this. When you are working out, you're producing a bunch of CO2 and H+ ions. You also are using up a lot of O2 and thus, need that oxygen in the organs, its not doing you any good stuck in the blood.

The opposite is true when Oxygen is in high supply. More oxygen is bound up in the Hb, leaving less space for H+ to bind.

So, a couple things should be apparent to you at this point. One, notice how respiratory rate seems to be implicated in blood pH? 2nd, notice this whole time I've been talking about boundmolecules and Hb? The blood system as a whole, is consistent. These molecules are there, regardless. The changes are based on whether at one point they're bound vs unbound. So the pH is relatively constant within a very narrow range of constraints. This is vitally important because notice how much an impact H+ ions have on your body's ability to carry oxygen, its literally life or death. So ANY changes in blood pH can become VERY VERY bad. But yet we live everyday problem free.

With regards to respiration, you can (for a very short time period) change your blood pH. Hold your breath for about 20 seconds. During that time the pH is being altered (and quickly corrected for). Opposite holds true as well. When people that are hyperventilating black out, what is actually happening is their body is losing too much CO2 and the pH is being altered (become more alkaline). When they pass out and breathing slows down, their body automatically corrects itself. So not only is it tightly controlled, its so tightly controlled your body does it when you're not even conscious.

I did mention exceptions to this. Remember I said kidneys also control pH? This is long term regulation. Now people suffering from a depreciated kidney function very much can have adverse effects based on what they eat. They pretty much have adverse effects based on anything though. Renal failure is very serious business.

As for cancer. There's been stuff shown that cancer cells "favor" an acidic environment in culture. And there's been stuff showing that altering the pH to a more alkaline level can kill the cells, in culture. Here's the problem. It kills everything. This is all in culture mind you. This mechanism, for reasons I've already explained make absolutely no difference in vivo because there's nothing we can do to instantly turn someones body "alkaline."

So with regards to diet, I don't recommend any diet based on pH. I don't think its a relevant consideration.

Summary: Blood pH is so tightly controlled that this is an irrelevant matter for any healthy individual. If you're up on chemistry, at least enough to understand le Chatelier's principle of chemical equilibrium, this is the blood pH buffer equation that basically summarizes what I just said:

H+(aq) + HCO3-(aq) H2CO3(aq) H2O (l) + CO2(g)

Anytime you push the equation one way, so long as it doesn't exceed the constraints of the buffer system, your body will alter respiration and such to correct back toward equilibrium."


Well presented. I was just going to link to an explanation of the human acid-base system. Well done!



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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LABTECH767
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


The phillosophy of that surgeon was not to cure the cancer but to remove the Fungus he believed was irritating the tumour and helping it to spread.
He did not use commercial baking soda but a medical grade solution and poultice he made himself, one patient whom had skin cancer on his head reported that after several week's his skin tumour dropped off like a dry scab though admittedly this may be down to a localised cell death caused by osmotic evacuation he did however suffer no relapse.

I do not know how he applied his internal treatment but I suppose localised Alkaline saturation may have performed much the same function as radio therapy in that it may have caused a local cell die off but without the peripheral damage as the healthy tissue may have been able to more readily respond in balancing its homeostasis but as you and those of us whom have had loved one's succumb to this terrible disease know, chemotherapy harms both the good and the bad cell's as it effectively stop's all new cell production and this in turn if the cancer is not beaten by it leaves the patient in a more vulnerable position as there body can no longer resist the cancer and it can then spread more aggressively.

So if the local cell die off is the case is it not a viable alternative to both chemo and radio therapy as well as intrusve surgery which by it's very nature damages the good tissue to get to the bad tissue.

This definitely REQUIRES more ETHICAL non profic motivated research.

Logically speaking there is something to this but YOU CAN NOT SELF MEDICATE as you do not have access to the correct materials or know how this surgeon applied his treatment.

Remember he was a surgeon and cancer speciallist so may also have used other techniques in conjunction with this.
edit on 14-10-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)


Logically speaking, what is the "something" to this? Controlled trials? Reproduction? Logical physiological explanation? Remember, anecdote =/= evidence.





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