What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

reply to post by logical7


That response doesn't really seem to mesh with my response. Looks as though you wanted to reply to me without actually touching on my point.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

That response doesn't really seem to mesh with my response. Looks as though you wanted to reply to me without actually touching on my point.

you obviously need more than a hint.
You have a sense of justice, compassion and empathy for what you see around the world.
But as you "believe" that the world maybe the end so you want it all to be settled right here. It doesnt happen that way and we know it. So either it gets settled in some way after death or never. I know the world is far away from being ideal or perfect. I however also never said it, i had said that the system designed by the Creator must be perfect, and you forgot to take the system in its full scale of time. Pre death and post death.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Deflection. And he's avoiding answering his own question.
Here it is again ... just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle ...

logical7
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU COME TO REALISE THAT THE TRUTH IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU WERE PERSISTENTLY DENYING? ....WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT HERE in the world, this life, ONCE YOU KNOW ITS TRUE, EVEN IF IT MEANS MAKING A LOT OF CHANGES in your thinking, beliefs, life etc?

Logical ... answer your own question please. Thank you.

And while you are at it ... Logical would you address this as well ....

Logical7 said -

How about looking at the truth without carrying a mould with you? If you carry a square mould and find a tringular truth, you would obviously dismiss it. And you would be obviously wrong for doing that.

My response - You carry a square Islamic mould. The historical truth I posted is triangular. You dismiss it.
So you are obviously wrong for doing that. (your words). Correct?

- Your square Islam mould says - Abraham built the Kaaba and he was Muslim.
- The triangular TRUTH mould says - Abraham might not even have existed, that he was no where near the Kaaba, and that Islam wasn't invented until almost 4,000 years after Abraham supposedly existed.

- Your square Islam mould says - Adam and Eve existed, Noahs Ark existed.
- The Triangular TRUTH mould says - the Adam and Eve creation myth came from the Summerians and was changed by the Hebrews and, DNA proves Noahs Ark is a fable.

- Your square Islam mould says - the Qu'ran is incorrupt and from God.
- The Triangular TRUTH mould says - It has many errors including the Solomon and Abraham error

Etc etc

So are you dismissing the truth and are you obviously wrong for doing so?? (your words) And in light of the fact that you have been presented with truth, what will you do? Will you persistently deny the truth or will you accept it and 'make a lot of changes in your thinking, beliefs, life, etc??

Again .. your question to Wildtimes -

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU COME TO REALISE THAT THE TRUTH IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU WERE PERSISTENTLY DENYING? ....WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT HERE in the world, this life, ONCE YOU KNOW ITS TRUE, EVEN IF IT MEANS MAKING A LOT OF CHANGES in your thinking, beliefs, life etc?

Since the topic of this thread is 'what's so scary about finding out your religion is false' ... I"d like to hear from someone who has just been shown irrefutable evidence that what he believes is false. And I'd like him to answer his own question (which I quoted above).

FlyersFan
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Deflection. And he's avoiding answering his own question.
Here it is again ... just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle ...

logical7
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU COME TO REALISE THAT THE TRUTH IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU WERE PERSISTENTLY DENYING? ....WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT HERE in the world, this life, ONCE YOU KNOW ITS TRUE, EVEN IF IT MEANS MAKING A LOT OF CHANGES in your thinking, beliefs, life etc?

Logical ... answer your own question please. Thank you.

my answer is YES.

Now your turn =)
would you?

reply to post by logical7

I am CONSTANTLY re-evaluating my position and beliefs.
I am CONSTANTLY in flux when finding new information and truth.
I am CONSTANTLY dumping the old that has been proven false.

Wish you could say the same.

reply to post by wildtimes

What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

It is nothing scary as long as you have faith,true faith.

logical7
my answer is YES.

I find that hard to believe. Prove it please. Tell us that you accept that your religion is full of errors and that you will be making a lot of changes in your thinking, beliefs, life, etc. And share with us what those changes will be. I'd love to actually believe that you aren't afraid of truth ....

reply to post by logical7

But as you "believe" that the world maybe the end so you want it all to be settled right here. It doesnt happen that way and we know it.

Neither of us knows that.

I however also never said it, i had said that the system designed by the Creator must be perfect, and you forgot to take the system in its full scale of time. Pre death and post death

Because you would know all about that, right?

reply to post by FlyersFan


why are you assuming that i was carrying an islamic mould all the time?
Why you assume that the islamic mould and the truth are of different shapes?

Let me give an example, Islam says Jesus pbuh is not divine and its not just muslims who believe that, many christians i met and even wildtimes and AI here think the same. If they think this then they agree to that tiny part of truth in Islam and it just keeps on adding like Islam forbids interest banking and debt based economy, encourages free markets without government manipulations. I agree to it. As would people who understand these topics. Makes sense? I kept picking the truths drop by drop and Islam seems to give a good understanding of this temporary life and guidance to conduct oneself in it.

Historical records didnt exist during the time of Abraham pbuh, forget that, historically even Jesus' pbuh existence is doubted. Now that would be your own triangular historical mould backfiring on you.

reply to post by piequal3because14


Well, hello there, pi!

Glad to see you out and about, in someone else's thread! What do you think about others' responses here?

Also, have you explored other thought systems or beliefs outside your own?

logical7
why are you assuming that i was carrying an islamic mould all the time?

I didn't say that. But you are NOW ...

Why you assume that the islamic mould and the truth are of different shapes?

I just showed that they are .... irrefutable proof.
That's not 'assumption'. That's fact. Historical and scientific fact.

Noahs Ark and the Adam and Eve creation myth. The Square Islamic mould says they literally happened. The triangular truth mould of science and geology and sociology and archeology prove it didn't happen. There is no assumption about that ... it's fact. Using your triangle and square language ... it's right there in front of you.

To quote you -

If you carry a square mould and find a tringular truth, you would obviously dismiss it. And you would be obviously wrong for doing that.

So are you obviously wrong for dismissing the fact that your square Islamic mould doesn't fit the Triangular truth mould??? And what are you going to do about it?? Will you change your life, your thinking, everything?? That's what you asked WIldtimes .. so that's what I'm asking you now ....

FlyersFan

logical7
my answer is YES.

I find that hard to believe. Prove it please. Tell us that you accept that your religion is full of errors and that you will be making a lot of changes in your thinking, beliefs, life, etc. And share with us what those changes will be. I'd love to actually believe that you aren't afraid of truth ....

hahahaha.. FF, you are sure amusing! =)
me answering YES does not mean that you are absolutely right and so when i say yes, i should agree to everything you believe. =)

i however am open to discuss any topic with you, make a thread and invite me and let both of us agree to accept whatever comes out in those discussions as a more likely truth.

reply to post by logical7

Islam says Jesus pbuh is not divine and its not just muslims who believe that, many christians i met and even wildtimes and AI here think the same. If they think this then they agree to that tiny part of truth in Islam

WHOA there, stud!!

No, nono, you are leaping to that conclusion....Muslims DO believe Jesus was the Messiah - and I do not. I believe he was a sage, a highly-evolved soul who wanted to teach others what he had learned from his own experience and studies.

I believe he spent his "lost years" in Buddhist learning and came back to teach enlightenment. His words are too similar to the Buddha's to be "original" messages.

That is, if he existed at all. I don't believe the crucifixion was anything but an ordinary execution of an extraordinary man; and I believe he probably survived it and went BACK to Kashmir or wherever.

I DO NOT believe in all the 'revelations' - and at least Jesus is not "claiming an angel told him". Muhammed did NOT fly to heaven on a horse - he did NOT receive original, dictatorial messages telling him to keep slaves, marry children, kill infidels, or any of that other horse-crap.

That's what I believe.

As for the "unseen", I FULLY believe "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Tell me, log7, have you read Shakespeare? Lots of Shakespeare?

reply to post by logical7

why are you assuming that i was carrying an islamic mould all the time?

Were you NOT born into a Muslim family? Were you a "heathen", with no religion, and then you discovered Islam all on your own?

I think not, but that's based on what we've discussed before. Please clarify for me if that's not the case.

logical7
me answering YES does not mean that you are absolutely right

I am not part of the equation ...
You are arguing against scientific and historical fact.
And you are using the fictional quran to do so.
So since the scientific and historical facts have proven you wrong.
Will you admit it? And if so .. will you change your life and beliefs etc??

It's a very simple question. Science and historical fact have proven you wrong.
Do you accept that TRUTH and will you change because of it. You said yes ...
so tell us what you plan on doing now.

FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7

 

I am CONSTANTLY re-evaluating my position and beliefs.
I am CONSTANTLY in flux when finding new information and truth.
I am CONSTANTLY dumping the old that has been proven false.

Wish you could say the same.

I think this is the only SENSIBLE way to live, as one gets older and experiences more, one can use hindsight - and insight -to evaluate and deconstruct their belief system. I believe that's part of, if not THE purpose for existence.

I wish everyone could say the same. Hearsay is so dull and empty. First-hand experience (NDEs/OBEs) is a great teacher - but when it comes to paranormal or supernatural things, we all have to take some things on faith.

(BTW, I wonder - have you ever given details about your experiences with evil spirits? Point me to them, if so!)

AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

But as you "believe" that the world maybe the end so you want it all to be settled right here. It doesnt happen that way and we know it.

Neither of us knows that.

I however also never said it, i had said that the system designed by the Creator must be perfect, and you forgot to take the system in its full scale of time. Pre death and post death

Because you would know all about that, right?

edit on 18-10-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

i said that the Islamic explanation about these things makes complete sense and so it appeals to me.
I also have other things that made me certain to stay a muslim but thats not the topic, nor essential for what we are discussing.

Its like a theory in physics, Islam proposes a theory and all observations seem to agree with it and so i am inclined to also trust that the yet unseen events would also be true.

wildtimes
reply to post by piequal3because14

 

Well, hello there, pi!

Glad to see you out and about, in someone else's thread!

What do you think about others' responses here?

Also, have you explored other thought systems or beliefs outside your own?

Thank you for the warm welcome in your thread wildtimes.

Treating with kindness ,always can give elegance in postings.

I have read some of the posts.

Dogma it is what is creating the abyss of destructions.

I have read many things here about fear.

As long as you have love , there is nothing to fear about,because only true love can set you free.

This is why true faith it's pure Love,as pure Love it is true faith.

reply to post by logical7

i said that the Islamic explanation about these things makes complete sense and so it appeals to me.

Appealing to you doesn't make all of Islam correct.

Do you believe Mohammed flew to heaven on a horse? Do you believe in the crucifixion/ressurection?

I also have other things that made me certain to stay a muslim but thats not the topic, nor essential for what we are discussing.

Actually that IS PRECISELY the topic!

If you have a personal story to tell about how you came to your decision to stay Muslim, then it's exactly what we are talking about, and important to the thread.