Obama care who pays for it and how?

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posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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First of all I cant make an informed decision if I`m for it or not by not knowing this one simple fact. Please don`t send me a link to a 4000 pg pdf. Is there going to be a new tax added to our payroll like medicare? All I have heard is that out existing medical benefit costs will now be considered income. The cost that I and my company are paying for our Blue Cross/ Blue Shield PPO is $16,000 a year! (I live in Mass) and to be honest the plan isn`t that great. If I will be taxed an additional $4000 a year I will be pissed. Mass already has mandatory health care coverage (Mass Health) and basically everyone on Welfare has it. To cover the cost of these entitlements we have some of the highest taxes in the nation. So if anyone really knows how this will be paid for,considering our Government is on the precipice of financial ruin, Please inform me.



Thanks Bill




posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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I believe the feds bait the states and will pay for the 90% subsidies in the first few years and slowly less. The states will be in charge of the rest and eventually all of it. They will have to raise taxes or go bankrupt.

This is a con job to bankrupt the States. Then implement a single payer socialize healthcare. The states will have no choice but to accept it, so the cost can be reduced, but then the banker controlled government will run, ration, and control everything.

As far as the prices, it will go up because pre-existing conditions are not denied, so they just roll it all together and jack up the prices. That's why people are pissed about the rates and high deductibles.

The scary part is that half the population are poor or don't work, so half to population will get subsidies at the expense of tax payers. With health care going up every year, this is not sustainable. Then enter socialized Heathcare as Harry Reid said this is the end goal.
edit on 13-10-2013 by amfirst1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


As you see, my friend, there are many people who have an opinion on the many, many threads about Obama Care, yet none can offer any factual information on the topic. So, OC, you see, is a complete mystery to all. Muuuhahahaha Muuuhahahaha Muuuhahahaha Muuuhahahaha

To be honest, I would like to know the details on the subject as well. I even googled the hell out of it but could never get a strait answer. The documents, what little are available, can only be understood by a lawyer. It's more confusing than reading thee's and thou's in the bible. (another reason lawyers should be done away with... they speak in an unknown language)

I'll keep an eye on this thread, but I fear that it'll only be filled with hearsay and opinions, as no one seems to know any real details about this mysterious oddity called obama care.


EDIT:

Look what I found! I trust this guy more than the media



Dave Ramsey goes on to speak about how it works and all involved using simple math.

Take that Dems and Reps!


To sum the video up:

If Jim is healthy and has no medical bills but pays 10$ for insurance, and Bill has many problems and pays 40$ for insurance because he's always needing the doc, now that OC kicked in, Jims payments will be more and Bill's will be cheeper. 10$ becomes 25$ and 40$ becomes 25$. For those that dont pay anything, well, the guys that dont have healthy problems have to pay for them too.

Socialism! It's no more simple than that. You can't argue it. It is what it is, Socialism!

So can someone, anyone tell me how this is supposed to make healthcare cheeper again?

edit on 13-10-2013 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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It's on the backs of those of us that work like all taxes are. Many people are realizing they have been had and that is a great thing. All the people that never paid taxes but the end of the year got thousands back well those days are over. Many are finding they can get better coverage for less from other companies well ain't that a big suprise



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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Camperguy
First of all I cant make an informed decision if I`m for it or not by not knowing this one simple fact. Please don`t send me a link to a 4000 pg pdf. Is there going to be a new tax added to our payroll like medicare? All I have heard is that out existing medical benefit costs will now be considered income. The cost that I and my company are paying for our Blue Cross/ Blue Shield PPO is $16,000 a year! (I live in Mass) and to be honest the plan isn`t that great. If I will be taxed an additional $4000 a year I will be pissed. Mass already has mandatory health care coverage (Mass Health) and basically everyone on Welfare has it. To cover the cost of these entitlements we have some of the highest taxes in the nation. So if anyone really knows how this will be paid for,considering our Government is on the precipice of financial ruin, Please inform me.



Thanks Bill


The problem is right now those 35% uninsured go to emergancy room get treatment and can not or do not pay. That expense and it is so large some hospitals have closed their ERs is passed added on to everything else so that insurance companies then increase their rates so companies then recuce the coverage they give you etc. the circle continues. The overall idea of Obamacare is that everybody will have insurance so they will start going to the doctor earlier when things are less serious and cheaper to take care of or even preventable instead of at its worse when its massively expensive. The idea is that with people getting cheaper treatment earlier the out of control healthcare costs will decline. For most people Obamacare is just access to a more compedative market of health insurance providers. Right now we are already paying more than we should, more than anybody esle on earth and getting less. This is an attempt to fix that.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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Well I'm still confused who will pay and how. Not how it works. Like social security and medicare the money comes from payroll taxes. Mass just added 17 cents a gallon more on fuel taxes to cover roads and bridges because of the cost of insuring non workers. So yes everyone is now insured but my insurance costs have gone from $12000 year to $16000 a year over the last 4 years. So I personally don't see a cost savings just the opposite.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Camperguy
Well I'm still confused who will pay and how. ... So yes everyone is now insured but my insurance costs have gone from $12000 year to $16000 a year over the last 4 years.

It looks like you just answered your own question.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


In an attempt to simplify an incredibly complicated bill, the jist of it is you pay for your own insurance.

You and me and everyone else that doesn't qualify for Medicaid and Medicare pay for it out of pocket, and if you don't buy a health insurance the IRS is going to tax you 1% of your income for that year, and the next year it goes up to 2% and the year after that it goes up 3%, and on and on. And the taxes go to the IRS not an Obamacare slush fund.

Obamacare is one giant handout to the insurance companies, it isn't socialism, it's fascism.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


Maybe this will help?

link

It is all quite complicated.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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What is there to pay for in 'Obamacare'?

Before I try and answer your question I have to ask what you mean by 'Obamacare'. Do you mean the state exchanges where you buy insurance from a private insurance company? Do you mean the part where pre-existing conditions can't be a factor in getting insurance? How about the part where kids up to the age of 26 stay on their parents health insurance? Or is 'Obamacare' the expansion of Medicaid as overseen by the states?



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


There are several different roads to funding the Act. First, you have the tax...er, penalty...er, tax on individuals who do not wish to buy health insurance. There is also an increased payroll tax on medicare, tanning salons, higher threshold for itemized deductions on medical bills, and an increased tax on using your Health Savings Account and Flexible Spending Account.

The industry itself will be funding it via fees and excise taxes -- taxes on medical devices; go figure.

Last business with over 50 employees will be forced to pay a penalty if they do not offer a plan. Here is a kicker though. Even if one employee in a company claims subsidies; even though the employer offers a plan; the company will pay a penalty.

That is how it is getting funded. It doesn't receive funding from Congress; it does through taxes and penalties.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 06:54 PM
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MrSpad
The problem is right now those 35% uninsured go to emergancy room get treatment and can not or do not pay. That expense and it is so large some hospitals have closed their ERs is passed added on to everything else so that insurance companies then increase their rates so companies then recuce the coverage they give you etc. the circle continues.


I think that is only part of it. There is no way to determine if all 35% go to ERs; you are lumping together too much here. There is indeed misuse of the emergency rooms but it isn't fair to lump it all to the 35% of uninsured. I have seen plenty of insured folks utilize the ER as a doctor's office. Couple that with illegal immigrants who also utilize it, it wouldn't be logical to state that the problem lies with the uninsured. It may contribute, but it isn't the problem.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 07:03 PM
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some here at least.

its a tax...its a tax

and some factored into insurance policy prices, drug prices, and medical device prices.



+.9% Increase in Medicare Tax Rate (plus next item…)

3.8% New Tax on unearned income for high-income taxpayers= $210.2 billion ($200,000 for individual and $250,000 for joint filers)

New Annual Fee on health insurance providers = $60 billion (For calculation - Sec 9010 (b) of the PPACA.)[1]

40% New Tax on health insurance policies which cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, per year = $32 billion (inland tax as opposed to an importation tax)

New Annual Fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs = $27 billion (For calculation - Sec 9008 (b) of the PPACA)[2]

2.3% New Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices = $20 billion

+2.5% Increase (7.5% to 10%) in the Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction = $15.2 billion
Limit annual contributions to $2,500 on flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans (plans that allow employees to choose between different types of benefits) = $13 billion

All other revenue sources = $14.9 billion

10% New Tax imposed on each individual for whom “indoor tanning services” are performed.

3.8% New Tax on investment income. Includes: gross income from interest, dividends, royalties, rents, and net capital gains. Investment income does not include interest on tax-exempt bonds, veterans’ benefits, excluded gain from the sale of a principle residence, distributions from retirement plans, or amounts subject to self-employment taxes. (The lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified Adjusted Gross Income over a the dollar amount at which the highest income tax bracket, typically $250,000 for married filing jointly and $200,000 filing as an individual).



source

its a tax its a tax !!!



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


Medical, emergency and health care are a few of those things that go up like 300 percent every two years and those increases are reflected in the price of all our insurance premiums. There wasn't a way to stop the exorbitant increases until this passage,and so those responsible are going to hate and rally against this bill. Other people are saying "my insurance went up"...big surprise, when doesn't it? you were due for an increase anyway so these insurance companies decided to hike rates now to make this bill look bad and because they could. In the future, they will not be able to increase rates so easily and it will be sort of like we're living in a rent controlled district when it comes to insurance. Since everyone pays, we all pay, people carry around their medical billing statements to show others the staggering fees they would've had to pay without insurance, "for one night in the hospital" So this is a great opportunity for savings down the road. Since we all pay for it in some way, I'm all for that.
edit on 13-10-2013 by Loveaduck because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


Medical, emergency and health care is one of those things that goes up like 300 percent every two years and those increases are reflected in the price of all our insurance premiums. There wasn't a way to stop the exorbitant increases until this passage,and so those responsible are going to hate and rally against this bill. Other people are saying my insurance went up...big surprise, you were due for an increase anyway so these insurance companies decided to hike rates now to make this bill look bad and because they could. In the future, they will not be able to increase rates so easily and it will be sort of like we're living in a rent controlled district when it comes to insurance. Since everyone pays, we all pay, people carry around their medical billing statements to show others the staggering fees they would've had to pay without insurance, for "for one night in the hospital" So this is a great opportunity for savings down the road. Since we all pay for it in some way, I'm all for that.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Camperguy
Well I'm still confused who will pay and how. Not how it works. Like social security and medicare the money comes from payroll taxes. Mass just added 17 cents a gallon more on fuel taxes to cover roads and bridges because of the cost of insuring non workers. So yes everyone is now insured but my insurance costs have gone from $12000 year to $16000 a year over the last 4 years. So I personally don't see a cost savings just the opposite.


There is not going to be any cost savings - never was, that was a complete lie. All they did was add a ton of bureaucracy to our terrible existing system, and then mandated that everyone get insurance or pay a tax.

There was never any intention to reduce costs, and that is obvious because absolutely nothing was done to attempt it, even though many simple things could be done that would reduce costs greatly. The name Affordable is total BS to make dumb liberals feel like they are helping the downtrodden. It forces the young to subsidize the sick and old while raising the overall cost for everyone since there are like a hundred new government agencies and thousands of workers now involved in administering it.

Now as far as how it works, I am not an expert but I believe the requirements for employers are if you have over 50 employees you are required to provide employees who work over 30 hours a week with health insurance. If you do not you must pay a fine for not providing them coverage. I do not think this requirement for businesses take affect until the beginning of 2015.

Of course since the ACA rates are all going up it basically is pointing a gun at your head to make you pay more for your employees health care, or makes you get rid of all your full time employees - which is what many businesses are doing now before this requirement goes into affect.



posted on Oct, 13 2013 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Camperguy
 


Bill,

The answer to your question is: Who do you think is 'paying' the insurance costs of the people who have no income?

-Cheers!



posted on Oct, 14 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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xuenchen
some here at least.

its a tax...its a tax

and some factored into insurance policy prices, drug prices, and medical device prices.



+.9% Increase in Medicare Tax Rate (plus next item…)

3.8% New Tax on unearned income for high-income taxpayers= $210.2 billion ($200,000 for individual and $250,000 for joint filers)

New Annual Fee on health insurance providers = $60 billion (For calculation - Sec 9010 (b) of the PPACA.)[1]

40% New Tax on health insurance policies which cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, per year = $32 billion (inland tax as opposed to an importation tax)

New Annual Fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs = $27 billion (For calculation - Sec 9008 (b) of the PPACA)[2]

2.3% New Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices = $20 billion

+2.5% Increase (7.5% to 10%) in the Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction = $15.2 billion
Limit annual contributions to $2,500 on flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans (plans that allow employees to choose between different types of benefits) = $13 billion

All other revenue sources = $14.9 billion

10% New Tax imposed on each individual for whom “indoor tanning services” are performed.

3.8% New Tax on investment income. Includes: gross income from interest, dividends, royalties, rents, and net capital gains. Investment income does not include interest on tax-exempt bonds, veterans’ benefits, excluded gain from the sale of a principle residence, distributions from retirement plans, or amounts subject to self-employment taxes. (The lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified Adjusted Gross Income over a the dollar amount at which the highest income tax bracket, typically $250,000 for married filing jointly and $200,000 filing as an individual).



source

its a tax its a tax !!!


Thanks this is what I was looking for also thanks for the video. Kind of what I figured "we the people will suck it as usual" We all know the working class will pay for this through the higher costs. I cant see the corporate machine taking a hit on profits for the good of mankind. Well I guess I`m against it due to the fact that my policy will probably break $20,000 a year when this kicks in. I will assume my costs will double for my plan and my net worth will continue to fall towards poverty. Sounds like Socialism to me.

Thanks again guys for taking the time.

Bill






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