Why were Adam and Eve driven from the Garden of Eden?

Were they driven out because they ate of the tree of knowledge? Or because they listened to Satan and not God? I think it is clearly written why they were driven out:

Gen 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and life forever:

23 :Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."

A very clear statement is made here, "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life"

That is the reason Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden.

What are the implications of this? Well clearly God did not deem us ready yet for eternal life, had God allowed it we very well could have in our sinful state, taken of the tree of life and become as immortals. But, God having said that the wages of sin shall be death, prevented our doing so. Why? Because it is unjust that God having said if we eat of the tree of knowledge we will die, and when we do so, had God not made good on his law. Justice requires that what is commanded be applied.

The whole Bible is about reconciling our having eaten of the tree of knowledge, with God giving us the tree of life.

reply to post by FreeMason

I agree with this, with one qualification.
I believe the writer means (and I've based a thread on this theory) that they were already eating from the tree of life, and the purpose of expelling them was to make it impossible for them to continue eating.
That is, the tree of life does not give immortal life instantly, as everybody tends to assume; it gives life as long as it it eaten regularly.
That is why, in the last chapter of Revelation, the fruit of this tree is growing continuously, so that it can be e aten continuously.
This theory also deals with the paradoxical questions like "could they have frustrated God's will by eating from the tree before he had a chance to stop them"?

DISRAELI
reply to post by FreeMason

 

I agree with this, with one qualification.
I believe the writer means (and I've based a thread on this theory) that they were already eating from the tree of life, and the purpose of expelling them was to make it impossible for them to continue eating.
That is, the tree of life does not give immortal life instantly, as everybody tends to assume; it gives life as long as it it eaten regularly.
That is why, in the last chapter of Revelation, the fruit of this tree is growing continuously, so that it can be e aten continuously.
This theory also deals with the paradoxical questions like "could they have frustrated God's will by eating from the tree before he had a chance to stop them"?

edit on 13-10-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

I was wondering this myself, were they immortal and now will die? Or were they mortal and simply gained the knowledge that they will die?

There are several ways to approach this logically, one is that in the time between taking of knowledge, were they also taking of the tree of life, they would have been gods, not "as gods" meaning in part. And what Satan said therefore would have been true.

I think instead, Satan saying that "Ye Shall surely not die" refers to the fact that they already will die, also God says "the day you eat of it you shalt surely die" (paraphrased) well they didn't die the same day but they would have known the same day. So there are some interesting questions from all that.

Also it does not say "take again from the tree of life" which would be stronger evidence of continually eating it in the past tense.

FreeMason
I was wondering this myself, were they immortal and now will die? Or were they mortal and simply gained the knowledge that they will die?

There are two ways of looking at this.
I sometimes distinguish between Life, which is what the Tree of Life supplies, and life, not capitalised, which is what we have got now.
It would be like the difference between an appliance running off the mains and an appliance running on batteries.
The first would run indefinitely, the second would stop when the battery ran down.
So being expelled from the Garden would be like being transferred from the first group to the second; their life would now have a time-limit, which would make them subject to death, and that would fulfil the warning.

On the other hand, if we believe that God worked through evolution and want to correlate this story with the pre-history of the human race, then we need to go with your second suggestion.
The "tree of knowledge" equates with the development of human consciousness. This is accompanied by choice of one's own will in prefenece to God's, and also by awareness of change and therefore death.

DISRAELI

FreeMason
I was wondering this myself, were they immortal and now will die? Or were they mortal and simply gained the knowledge that they will die?

There are two ways of looking at this.
I sometimes distinguish between Life, which is what the Tree of Life supplies, and life, not capitalised, which is what we have got now.
It would be like the difference between an appliance running off the mains and an appliance running on batteries.
The first would run indefinitely, the second would stop when the battery ran down.
So being expelled from the Garden would be like being transferred from the first group to the second; their life would now have a time-limit, which would make them subject to death, and that would fulfil the warning.

On the other hand, if we believe that God worked through evolution and want to correlate this story with the pre-history of the human race, then we need to go with your second suggestion.
The "tree of knowledge" equates with the development of human consciousness. This is accompanied by choice of one's own will in prefenece to God's, and also by awareness of change and therefore death.

I don't think that the second suggestion is married to "evolution" in anyway.

Your idea of Life and life will require me to start looking through the Bible for all the references to the living and the dead, to see if there is more to it than just the grave. Perhaps death as spiritual death is instant, and we are born spiritually dead (in sin) so we don't know it until we have Life.

DISRAELI
reply to post by FreeMason

 

I agree with this, with one qualification.
I believe the writer means (and I've based a thread on this theory) that they were already eating from the tree of life, and the purpose of expelling them was to make it impossible for them to continue eating.
That is, the tree of life does not give immortal life instantly, as everybody tends to assume; it gives life as long as it it eaten regularly.
That is why, in the last chapter of Revelation, the fruit of this tree is growing continuously, so that it can be e aten continuously.
This theory also deals with the paradoxical questions like "could they have frustrated God's will by eating from the tree before he had a chance to stop them"?

edit on 13-10-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

I don't often find stuff on ATS that I agree with without reservation.
This is one such post.

Nice work, and I agree wholeheartedly.

So not only is god part of an US, he is also a selfish sod?

"stop eating that fruit, it's for US only, not you lowly human things. Go back to the mud where you were found.."

Worship that?

Ahhaa..

You'll have to ask the Summerians.
The Adam and Eve story is a rip off of their creation mythology.
The Jews 'borrowed' it and then adapted it to fit their own belief system.

Adam of Sumer
Summerian Creation Myths
And a conspiracy theory related to Adam and Eve ... pretty far out there but some interesting information

The tree of Life

Or

Eternal Life

Is one of the secret agendas of The Bilderbergs.

Having said that, moNSAto aren't far behind.

Here's something to think about

Think of a sphere, and ask yourself how many sides does it have?
This is a question of much debate amongst scholars, but the general consensus is, A Sphere has an INFINITE number of sides.

If a cherub with flaming sword (or arrows) defends the tree of life
and the flaming swords POINTS IN EVERY DIRECTION, then would that mimic a spherical object, such as The Sun.

The Sun gives us life here on earth.

The sun rises in the East.

Me personally I'm an Athiest, but I still like to make people think.

Trubeeleever
Here's something to think about

Think of a sphere, and ask yourself how many sides does it have?
This is a question of much debate amongst scholars, but the general consensus is, A Sphere has an INFINITE number of sides.

If a cherub with flaming sword (or arrows) defends the tree of life
and the flaming swords POINTS IN EVERY DIRECTION, then would that mimic a spherical object, such as The Sun.

The Sun gives us life here on earth.

The sun rises in the East.

Me personally I'm an Athiest, but I still like to make people think.

While I think the physical representation of Angels may be in the form of Stars (because like the stars they are bound in chains until the end times, these are two correlative verses), I don't think the Sun is that Cherubim. If only because when driven from the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were driven further to the east. The Garden of Eden is therefore to the "west".

FlyersFan
You'll have to ask the Summerians.
The Adam and Eve story is a rip off of their creation mythology.
The Jews 'borrowed' it and then adapted it to fit their own belief system.

Adam of Sumer
Summerian Creation Myths
And a conspiracy theory related to Adam and Eve ... pretty far out there but some interesting information

It's the other way around, Sumerians are telling a partial story of which is also found in the Bible, there is no way to definitively link one to the other and say one is older than the other.

FreeMason
It's the other way around, Sumerians are telling a partial story of which is also found in the Bible,

No, the Summerians story predates the Jewish one.
The Jews 'borrowed' from the Summerians and changed the story over the years.
So if you want to know about Adam and Eve ... go ask the Summerians.
They are the original source of the story.

FlyersFan

FreeMason
It's the other way around, Sumerians are telling a partial story of which is also found in the Bible,

No, the Summerians story predates the Jewish one.
The Jews 'borrowed' from the Summerians and changed the story over the years.
So if you want to know about Adam and Eve ... go ask the Summerians.
They are the original source of the story.

There is no way to prove that the two stories do not have a common origin that is older. There is in fact no way to prove that the Sumerian pre-dates the Jewish, because Genesis and Job are both evidenced to be older than the Pentateuch itself. By 1,000 years based on covenant treaty writing.

The Tree of Life was not a tree like people think with bark, roots and leaves.

Had to do with genetics and sprouting the first life forms from frozen embryos and genetic material and such. Imagine a machine that can do that. I can't.

Eating those first and only specimens that were brought all this way would destroy the chain of life, leaving a gap in the interdependency of species and the symbiotic relationships that life forms need here. That loss would be irreplaceable. Forbidden "fruit".

You're right I don't know how to terraform a planet either. Somebody does though, look around you.

So they were ushered out of the garden and made to scratch on their own. Bad Adam, Bad Eve.

Sure would like to get a look at that tree. And the weapon they set to guard it.

FreeMason
There is in fact no way to prove that the Sumerian pre-dates the Jewish,

Yes there is.

Easy Timeline to Follow - Summerians started about 5000 BC
Mesopotamian Time Line
Timeline of Mesopotamian Civilizations
The Summerians predate the Hebrews. In fact, the Summerian codes of law were basis for the institution of law among all the Semitic peoples to follow: Babylonians, Assyrians, and, eventually, the Hebrews.
Even using Jewish folk lore sources ... The Hebrews didn't get started until 2000 BC

The Summerians had their stories and invented writing thousands of years before the Hebrews even (supposedly) got together under Abraham. And as I showed with 'the law', the Hebrews borrowed off the Summerian culture.

So again ... if you want to know about Adam and Eve .. look to the original sources of the story .. that would be Summerian texts.

FlyersFan

FreeMason
There is in fact no way to prove that the Sumerian pre-dates the Jewish,

Yes there is.

Easy Timeline to Follow - Summerians started about 5000 BC
Mesopotamian Time Line
Timeline of Mesopotamian Civilizations
The Summerians predate the Hebrews. In fact, the Summerian codes of law were basis for the institution of law among all the Semitic peoples to follow: Babylonians, Assyrians, and, eventually, the Hebrews.
Even using Jewish folk lore sources ... The Hebrews didn't get started until 2000 BC

The Summerians had their stories and invented writing thousands of years before the Hebrews even (supposedly) got together under Abraham. And as I showed with 'the law', the Hebrews borrowed off the Summerian culture.

So again ... if you want to know about Adam and Eve .. look to the original sources of the story .. that would be Summerian texts.

edit on 10/13/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Sumerians didn't start about 5,000 BC. Jericho was around 8,000 BC, Goebekli Tepe was about 9,000BC. There were ancient civilizations before Sumer.

Sumer began writing around 3,000 - 2,700 BC along with the Egyptians.

Abraham is from around 2,200 BC (again from covenent treaties) and Genesis isn't written by Abraham it's transmitted by Abraham if anything, and by Moses, the story of Adam is not one of revelation to later generations but is one passed down.

One which ancient civilzations share.

Egyptians share the creation myth too, in that the world was without form and void, and Nu formed the world in so many days and the land rose out of the waters and etc...

Are you saying the Genesis story along with the Sumerians is ALSO the Egyptian? The fact they all have commonalities is more important and one didn't necessarily come from the other.

I thought the tree was called Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

For me it represents the illusion of ego duality and that they fell because they became egoistic and disconnected from everything only pandering to their own egos?

Is this a metaphorical question?

If not, as an intelligent species (apparently!) I can't believe the subject of this thread...

reply to post by FreeMason

There is no way to prove that the two stories do not have a common origin that is older. There is in fact no way to prove that the Sumerian pre-dates the Jewish, because Genesis and Job are both evidenced to be older than the Pentateuch itself. By 1,000 years based on covenant treaty writing.

Sumerians didn't start about 5,000 BC. Jericho was around 8,000 BC, Goebekli Tepe was about 9,000BC. There were ancient civilizations before Sumer.

What do these civilizations have to do with Abraham and the Jews?

Abraham is from around 2,200 BC (again from covenent treaties) and Genesis isn't written by Abraham it's transmitted by Abraham if anything, and by Moses, the story of Adam is not one of revelation to later generations but is one passed down.

Abraham wasn't Jewish. There were no Jews before Abraham, as Abraham was, supposedly, the father of the Jewish nation. Hence, these Bible stories are not part of Jewish history but myths that were borrowed or plagiarized, edited and inserted into the Jewish Bible from other older cultures.