YOU are responsible for your own survivial - no one else.

reply to post by fenson76


If your sole reason of joining the military was so you could achieve early retirement, disability, or free medical care for the rest of your life, then I daresay you vets entered into that contract for all the wrong reasons.

If the military today actually fought for our protections and freedom, like was done in the past, I would happily join free of charge with no expectation. That of course takes a whole different mentality then most people, one that involved true patriotism and the love of protecting our freedoms.

But I say to that today: what freedoms are we protecting exactly?

Soloprotocol
I'm too lazy for that...If the SHTF i'll just steal from someone who's been Prepping for years...And Yes, If I need to kill them to survive i will..

And a lot of these preppers are prepared for people like you. Just sayin'

cry93
I totally agree, OP.

Take a look at this:

boston.cbslocal.com...

A lot of people on food stamps got a rude awakening today. It's a supposed computer glitch but it feels more like a dry run for something to me.

A comment, from the comment section

If you depend on government for food, you will go hungry.

If you depend on government for shelter, you will be homeless.
If you depend on government for income, you will be broke.
If you depend on government for justice, you will be punished.
If you depend on government for health care, you will be sick.
If you depend on government for freedom, you will get tyranny.
If you depend on government for happiness, you will be miserable.
If you depend on government for life, you will get death.

If you depend on no one, you will get freedom.

^ truth

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Your words not mine. Don't put your ignorant words in my mouth. What is wrong with making sure the govt fulfills their promise after you fulfilled yours? You have no idea what you are talking about. What you said shows more about your motivations than mine or any other Vets.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


So... a real patriot is one who gives their health or life to their country and should be thrown away after even though the same govt you loved and served promised to take care of you? You are clueless.

TheNewRevolution
reply to post by Panic2k11

 

The response should be simple. If the government does not comply to the will of the people, yours, his, hers, anybody's then you respond with noncompliance. You stop paying taxes. You stop following the illegal laws. You start representing yourself how you feel you should be represented. I have done this for years now and Uncle Sam can continue to kiss my arse.

I think it's going to take a lot of sacrifice on the American people's part in order to elicit big changes, and many people are not going to be down for that. I'm talking, sacrifice of EBT or sacrifice of other benefits. How many people are going to be willing to do this in order to turn things on it's head? Look how crazy people got because the EBT went down for a day. This is exactly what I've been telling my husband for years. EBT WILL go away for good. It is a matter of time. This is why we prep food. I tell my family, watch black Friday videos, do you want to be that person trampled in a crowd, hoping to find a carton of milk and loaf of bread? What are people going to do when the govt says, "Sorry, we don't have enough money to fund TANF, or SNAP this next year. GO to your local church or food bank. GO to the food kitchen. OR, line up for your ration tickets". It will be chaos, but hey, that's what those tanks and militarized police are for.

I'm more afraid of the people who are going to literally lose their minds when things finally collapse. I really think people are going to go insane. Preppers know this, and I do know one thing for sure, I'll never be that person going nuts in a grocery store fighting for food or standing in a line begging for extra rice and beans.

Our reliance on the govt has to come to an end in order to make changes and take our power back.

reply to post by Panic2k11

So people pay taxes and comply with government regulations but should have no right to demand that the government executes its functions, be critical of how he executes it or how itself complies to the rule of law and in general behaves so as to reflects the morality of the society it governs.

Playing devil's advocate here.

By all means we all should be mad as hell, and should refuse to take it any more. We should indeed hold all of our government official accountable and I am one of those people as serious as a heart attack about cleaning house on the Hill.

I have heard people say that we shouldn't get rid of everyone because that would leave us with no experienced members of the government in place. I say "GOOD"! That is exactly what we need. This way they will spend their time working for solutions that benefit the country and not themselves or waste that precious time making connections that will allow them to make a career of the position.

Two terms. No more then two terms for "anyone". Get the reps back on track. Help them remember the job we sent them there to do. We have a mess on our hands and we have to fix it. It is not going to be easy and we are going to go through some rough times ahead. I think the OP is saying don't sit back and rely on this rogue government to come to your aide.

There will always be those that have more than others, but if we all do as much as we can for ourselves, there will be enough for everybody. I grew up in a small country town that I guess was more like a village. We took care of our own. I remember when the second collection plate went around in church it was for the family that needed their furnace repaired or replaced, or a family that needed warm coats or boots for their children. The woman of the church made care schedules and mapped out the time that the sick and shut in needed help and people could volunteer their time. Or like in my case, my mother would donate "my" time. I didn't mind; it was usually better than doing chores. We only had two churches for a long time. One Catholic and one Baptist. It was a joke in a way, because it was common for us children to have to to go to both, since my father was Baptist and my mother Catholic. Mass was at 06:00am and the Sermon was around 09:00am, it gave us time to come home and eat breakfast before going to my father's church. Catholics used to fast before Mass. I know some still do but back then it was a venial sin.

Both churches were the center of the community and through the churches we kept our fingers on the pulse of our town and worked together to help those that needed help. Most people were very proud and always willing to help and would give there last penny or potato. The hard part was getting to take anything when they were in need.

Did I say they were "very" proud? The solution to our problems lies in good communities. We need to build strong neighborhoods and once again become good neighbors.

Tatanka

Soloprotocol
I'm too lazy for that...If the SHTF i'll just steal from someone who's been Prepping for years...And Yes, If I need to kill them to survive i will..

And a lot of these preppers are prepared for people like you. Just sayin'

No-one has ever prepared for Me...After TSHTF they will write about me, they will pen songs about me, i am " The Tornado" and like "A Tornado," Your stuff and I shall be gone before you can Say..I think it might be "The Tor...

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Nature proves that what you describe is the best short term response, to be predatory but when some form of organization emerges that focus on defense you will have also to change your tactics and ultimately will get into an arms race that you are doomed to lose, collaboration and cooperation in a symbiotic relation is the best model, just look to your own body, how cooperation permits cells to thrive and ultimately archive exceptional levels of specialization that permits ever more complex structures. Something that individualistic structures can't match, this is in part why human societies evolved...

We were always responsible for survival before. The Catholic church did a good job of keeping seeds to start crops in the past and used to have reserves to last at least a year. Lately they have not been keeping up so much. The mormons do have a good seed bank, enough for their members and also food reserves for their members. I am sure they will not be taking any new members if the shtf. Other than that, the government will supply their elite members and families with all they need if the shtf. That is life.

We were never even told that our government would provide for us speedily in a major event. Their system is very clumbsy, they would take months to do anything on a big scale. We assume that they will help but in reality we are on our own for at least a month....and then all you will receive is maybe one mre a day if you are lucky....after waiting in line for hours.

Why are people so niave, it is not the responsibility of our government to look after everyone, hasn't anyone listened to their grandparents. It is worse now than during the great depression, at least there were a lot more farmers those days. Now, with limited people growing things, the bigger farms will be targeted heavily by looters. We won't be getting food, it will be all gone. Grow some of your own in your house, your garden will be scavenged every night. Hide your veggies amongst the trees and flowers if it gets bad, not in the garden. Plant potatoes, broccoli is easy for someone to see while potatoes are under ground. Not many people know what a potato plant looks like.

S&F

reply to post by fenson76


A real patriot is someone who fights for the rights their country provides. Though many have the right idea in mind, there are many people today that join the military quite simply for the paycheck it provides and the promise of an early and beneficial retirement with benefits. Those people aren't patriots and I never said you were one of those people. I said that if you were, you joined for the wrong reasons. IF.

However, if you were a person who failed to see the reality of out government, how it has lied, cheated, and degraded its veterans and people over the years - I believe that is your own naivety. Not to say I don't feel bad for those who have given service only to be betrayed, but I can say that it should have been expected.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


All you have said is showing that you have no idea what a contract is. I hope you never run a business, it won't last too long. Cheers.

reply to post by AsarAlubat


Great idea! I am in the military and my wife and I have 7 kids ( no govt assistance btw). I need to look into getting a few seed banks though! Thanks for the idea

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


I'm going to show you every reason you are wrong and everyone else who has starred or flagged you. Let's begin.

1) "No, people are angry and frightened because "we won't get our checks in the mail"."

Ummmm, have you even researched why "checks in the mail" are available? Most, I'm not saying all, people have paid into it almost their entire lives? And, the government pretty much spent it. Now it's a big deal to you?

2) "Nobody has an excuse"

Right!!! You named one person on the entire earth who is disabled to make your point, using EBAY (You must not be involved in any form if internet marketing or real online sales to know ebay is really tough to make a living off of. OH, and what kind of jewelery, since you have all the answers. It's costs me about $500 to get to my specialist and get my tests done, I could use the info.) I guess we should all start producing our own chemo, pulmozyme, radiation machines and so forth. Hey, I have an idea . . anyone want to come to my house and bring their chemistry set?

3) "I don't care what problems you have, you should be doing what you can to be self sufficient"

You make a huge assumption here. You should care what problems people have, isn't that the point of your entire post. . . even citing your friend? If SHTF, do you think people will be on EBAY? Buying Jewelry?

4) Everything you mentioned in your points 1-5 are fantastic. But you LEFT OUT, let me repeat this LEFT OUT, everyone who needs the following:

a) medicines they cannot make at home

b) electricity to live (most people in the hospital)

c) have enough land to garden

d) have food to preserve

Your entire argument is off base. You do not look at the people as a whole and try to solve any problems. You look at YOUR living situation and try to tell EVERYONE else what to do. You're no better than the government at this point.

TheNewRevolution
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

I am eligible for disability. I am eligible for food stamps. I am eligible for medicaid.

Do I take them? No. Because despite the fact that I could be accepted into these systems, I refuse to rely on another entity thousands of miles away to dictate my survival.

When I was a taxpayer, I was pissed at the entire scenario, but honestly now that I'm not I don't care. To each their own. I don't demonize or ostracize people for taking what is offered to them. I will make them aware, however, of their own impending demise and destruction of self reliance by doing so.

I believe in a world of compassion, not hand outs. If the world every gets to the point where people are slaughtering each other and taking what others have, then that is simply the offspring of the society we have created for ourselves by removing the ideas of charity, community, and self sacrifice to help others who are in need. Instead we have replaced it with these mundane ideas that by paying out taxes, running in some charity marathon, or donating a can of food her or there, we are making a difference in the world. Sure, maybe on the most basic of levels, but the lessons that are needed are being lost in the shuffle.

"When I was a tax payer"? So how do you live?

TheNewRevolution
reply to post by Maverick7

 

People have a responsibility to help the elders.

I question, what happened to the sick and elderly BEFORE government assistance? Were they all left to die on the street? Were they abandoned in their homes with no retirement and no food and left to starve?

No. Families and communities took care of them. Churches took care of them. Organizations were set to help them. The government didn't dangle its teet here and there to give a trickle to them, the people took care of EACH OTHER.

When I am 75 and worked hard, I will expect my family to take care of me and support me, as I have done to them my entire life. I won't expect the community to do so simply because I see what our communities have become. True charity is far and few between.

Nonetheless, I'm not going to work as a government mule to break down my body for the system. When I'm no longer able to walk and take care of myself, I will gladly give myself the bullet to ease the burden of those who have to take care of me. Not many people would.

I read through the thread and I agree with just about everything you've said, especially this post.

In my opinion I don't see anything changing until people are forced to change, but to what? I would imagine most of the people living in the Westernized areas have completely lost the concept of what a community that fends for itself is, let alone a family that is not dysfunctional to some degree. Many Westernized families would rather send their parents to places out of sight and out of mind than take the time and effort to take care of them.

On personal responsibility for survival, I agree with you 100%. Only in the last few generations are people completely dependent on others for their food, water, and shelter. Some regions are so far gone that the water needs to be recycled and the food is contaminated with chemicals and hormones. These regions think taxation is a way of survival to maintain the status quo and continue their way of life. The problem with the current income tax system is that the people have no idea where their money is spent, while assuming it is being used to better their livelihood.

Perhaps people are resisting these ideas because they have never seen "freedom" in action, where you don't eat if you don't grow your own food, or have no relatives to help out in times of need. In the indigenous autonomous villages I have visited, there is no police, no taxes, and about 0 crime. In a responsible autonomous communal living environment, outsiders are not needed and not welcome to tell people what to do... Except for some religious organizations who think they know best

reply to post by Soloprotocol


LOL I needed a good laugh and your BS about being this ultimate tough guy is just the ticket.

reply to post by OptimusCrime


1. Disability and welfare are not a service paid into to receive the return that people get. I am not badmouthing social security or unemployment as those aren't entitlements are they? No, you are receiving your own money back.

However, when people abuse the unemployment system as has been done in the past few years, it becomes an entitlement.

2. I named a person who has it worse off than 99% of the people in the United States. I believe that is a fair example. If you would like me to provide more examples of people that are worse off than most, yet are still able to manage and survive, I could do that.

$500 to get your tests done. Great. How often are these tests? Are you saying it is impossible to make the money needed to cover said medical expenses in time? Do you know there is a such thing as free clinics and free hospitals?

You probably did, but it would be INCONVENIENT to have to travel, live near, or burden yourself with the idea of going to these places when you can easily just collect a check and go somewhere close by. Back in the day, people didn't have a problem moving their location to better their situation and their chances of survival, but today that is off the table for most people.

3. The S hasn't hit the fan yet has it? So therefore you do what you can until it does, and you use the time to prepare for what you can. If you have an ailment, you do what you need to do to ensure you survive with that ailment when things aren't available for you. If you don't take that time, guess what?

YOU DIE. I have no problem with people dying because people die every day. Everyone dies. Harsh but true reality. Either you take responsibility for your own survival and the hand you were given, or you accept the ultimatum. It really is that simple.

4.

A. There are many medications and alternates to medications that can be procured at home or online in bulk. There are ways to make it happen.

B. The only people that require electricity to live are those who are on life support. There are mechanical alternatives to nearly all procedures that were done before the onset of widespread electricity.

C. You don't need land to garden. Buckets or bins will do just fine.

D. Once you start gardening, you will have food to preserve.

"When I was a tax payer"? So how do you live?

Contrary to popular modern belief, the green we call "money" is not necessary for survival. I live only on necessity. I am self employed to give me enough money to pay what is needed and that is it. Everything else I provide for myself.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Well I guess thousands of children suffering from cancer are responsible for their own survival. It's all their fault they have it and should just be left on their own to defend themselves for the little time they have left.

SecretWeapon
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

LOL I needed a good laugh and your BS about being this ultimate tough guy is just the ticket.

edit on 15-10-2013 by SecretWeapon because: (no reason given)

I never once said i was the ultimate tough guy....I'm just a right good thief..