The Band that Betrayed America

I can only stomach one reckless piece of rhetoric you made for analysis:

originally posted by: Astyanax
And even as the civil rights movement was finally winning for black Americans the rights they'd been long denied, the Beach Boys were still happy to exploit the fact that black artists couldn't get played on most white radio stations (which had the biggest audiences) by blatantly ripping off Chuck Berry.

You then posted a video of the Beach Boy song "Surfin' USA," followed by the Chuck Berry song "Sweet Little Sixteen," as the apparent evidence that the Beach Boys "ripped off" (an idiom for "stealing") this song.





Your first accusation: The Beach Boys "blatantly" stole Chuck Berry's song Sweet Little Sixteen.

1. NOBODY owns a common chord progression. There are many songs, ESPECIALLY from the 50s and early 60s, that have the kind of V I type chord progression you see repeated in these two songs. Chuck berry did NOT invent this chord progression.

2. Unlike "Surfin' USA," Chuck Berry's song has no measures in which the music stops and the melody is sung. It's a significant difference in the composition.

3. Once again, you believe with your trusty but biased ears that a "similar" sounding song can only mean it was "ripped off," and for dubious reasons like exploiting an African American who couldn't get his music played on the radio. There is no such thing to you as "influence" of a musical style; there's only originality or rip off. That kind of rigidity causes a perverse opinion of what it means to truly steal a song (i.e., copyright infringement).

Your second accusation:

originally posted by: Astyanax
They [The Beach Boys] even ripped off the greatest guitar intro ever!

HOLY MOTHER are those two guitar intros NOT the same thing! Yet, once again, like a total sophist twisting a deceitful argument, you have the audacity to say the Beach Boys stole somebody's music.

Read it and weep:


Undeniably two different pieces of music that share a few similarities, none of which constitute that one was "ripped off."

I guess it's just a trend with you to find ways of trashing certain musicians. There's no merit in what you're trying to do.

The Beach Boys always seemed to be the poppy, preppy version of rock n roll from that time to me. Pretty boys with pretty harmony and daddy approved lyrics. Im sure they made bank and got some nice tail out of it.

Regarding the ripping off Chucker, wasn't the entire early rock movement based on jacking sounds from the brothers? Pat Boone come to mind?

originally posted by: deuceawesome
Regarding the ripping off Chucker, wasn't the entire early rock movement based on jacking sounds from the brothers? Pat Boone come to mind?

If by "jacking the sounds" you mean being influenced by the music of African Americans, then indeed yes. But if you mean that white musicians were intentionally stealing the songs of African Americans (i.e., violating copyright law) so that these white musicians could become famous or fill their wallets, and that they "betrayed America" because of it, that's nothing but a disturbed distortion of the truth. There would be no history of classic rock if the only songs written were (somehow) not influenced by any other music.

Unfortunately, there are some people who think very little of accusing other people of being thieves.

originally posted by: Petros312
2. Unlike "Surfin' USA," Chuck Berry's song has no measures in which the music stops and the melody is sung. It's a significant difference in the composition.

Correction: "Sweet Little Sixteen" does have a section in which the music stops and the melody is sung a cappella. I still can't logically make the claim that Chuck Berry invented this and has exclusive rights to stop the music of a song in between measures and sing a cappella.

Chuck Berry has such a richer quality of sound than the beach bums could ever muster!

(another reference link)


this topic makes an excellent side dish on the 'merry prankster' study
(and how the system makes use of music talent) thanks OP, S&F'd
makes complete sense to me..

a reply to: Petros312

I wanted to keep my response fun but
I can't help jumping in on your drawing of the notes for the intros to the songs fun fun fun and Johnny b. Goode. They may be I slightly different ranges but the note pattern and also simply how they sound to the ear are almost the same. When either song comes on I can tell which one it is, but you can't say they are so far off as to warrant a holy Mother, in all caps no less!

Also, huge shout out to whoever mentioned Flight of The Navigator. Greatest Disney movie ever.

I think most of the Beach Boys' songs were tinged with nostalgia, a sadness, even before they were popular. It was a tad before my time (sorta) but I liked their play. I don't think they sold out. I think they rode that pony until it was dried and desiccated. I would have done the same had my band have garnered the same public attention.

For a time....... they were the American dream, full of wonder and hope and...... a tinge of sadness

I submit the following for your purview: Wouldn't it be nice..........

A song didn't sink the US' car production ship. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. When something better hits the market and people start buying it & swearing by it, that's how the Old Standards turn into era relics. Of all the car fiends I've known in my life, none think all that highly of most American cars made after the 1950's. The stickler is always that the companies skimped on long-term quality & they're not nearly as great as advertised, even as classics. Think about that. Even today, a Ford has the nickname Fix Or Repair Daily, Found On Road Dead, F-er Only Runs Downhill, etc for a reason.

I highly doubt Ford & the like are ever going to be Auto Kings again. Too many different companies today to bet on that. And it's far from the Beach Boys' fault, it's called competition.

it's far from the Beach Boys' fault, it's called competition.

For a time....... they were the American dream

a person can learn a lot just by listening to what the others are saying
(and putting it all back together again without the extraneous parts)
...
"the only enemy of a monopoly is a competitor"
fwiw, the discourse with auto industry here seems to be something stuart crane has often mentioned in his recordings
(it's a 5 part series titled "proofs of conspiracy"..about 38 megabytes only, available for free download, possibly from archive.org, if anyone was interested?)

a reply to: Astyanax

That first song about a little honda is a honda commercial .. right? If not I am sure some japaneese guy from honda did pay em a visit and gave them a smack of dollars. What better than the beach boys telling the american customers about a honda. Who would write for fun a song about a little honda anyways....

originally posted by: TheBolt
a reply to: Petros312
I can't help jumping in on your drawing of the notes for the intros to the songs fun fun fun and Johnny b. Goode. They may be I slightly different ranges but the note pattern and also simply how they sound to the ear are almost the same. When either song comes on I can tell which one it is, but you can't say they are so far off as to warrant a holy Mother, in all caps no less!

The two intros transcribed above are not for "fun fun fun" and Johnny b. Goode. Go back and read the titles.

My chosen exclamation was not based on the degree of similarity/differences between the two guitar intros. It was chosen based on the OP accusing the Beach Boys of stealing the guitar intro from the song "Sweet Little Sixteen." You cannot claim that a piece of music was "stolen" if the music is not IDENTICAL. There are tons of guitar parts that "sound the same," which is evidence for musical influence. The Beach Boys were no doubt influenced by the music of Chuck Berry, like many, but when you make the claim that his music was "stolen" without demonstrating the two pieces of music are IDENTICAL, you are confounding musical influence with plagiarism.

a reply to: Astyanax

I was just referring to the fact that "my man!" sounds better, more natural, than "my woman!", so it cramps my style to have to include it in my post just in case you might be a woman... But I will certainly look up your username! It can be a fun thing to do, and can be a good learning experience. I've discovered some awesome stuff by doing searches on ats usernames, sigs, even locations and moods People type in all kinds of crazy, random stuff in those areas.

Yeah, interesting wikiledia page for Astyanax... You werent lyin about the cold shower thing... Nothing like some good ol infanticide to get ya in the mood, eh?

I like the version where he survives and is the progenitor of the Merovingian dynasty.