The Atheists Moral Pledge

Bleeeeep
I'm trying to get a better sense of what nonspiritual atheists pledge their morality to. That is, what do they ascribe to be the purpose of their morality?

My guess is that most would say for self, loved ones, planning ahead, or society, with a tendency to invoke the survival mechanism ideology.

I'm particularly interested in understanding what the perceived logic is in pledging your emotional sense of right and wrong, to your other emotional senses.

If "when you die you're gone", is a true sentiment for you, how do you justify only doing what is morally right, if doing something morally wrong will help you better survive in the here and now? i.e. What logic, or rationale, is there in being morally just, if it does not help you better survive?

The way I see it is that your pledge is to your own emotions, and nothing else, since everlasting, or higher than self, does not exist beyond an emotionally charged ideological concept...

So, what is your pledge to, and how do you justify it?

Is morality stupidity, insanity, delusional, rational, logical, beneficial, or any, and all of the above?

Any of you care to share your thoughts? (All are invited to answer.)

P.s. I will not judge your responses morally - I just want to know for my own understandings of the human mind. (Please answer honestly.)

Why do i need to "pledge" my morality to anything? I, like most other human beings, have empathy, compassion, and a desire to make those i love happy. Empathy, compassion, and joy are emotions and are part of being human. The levels people feel may very, but everybody feels them.

Thats it, nothing more, nothing less. Unless someone is going to try an claim ownership of emotions then i fail to understand your question. Morality is nothing but a single word that encompasses multiple concepts.

DC

Bleeeeep
reply to post by winofiend

 

Essentially, you have said that your morality is based on your emotions, and there is nothing to morality beyond that.

If this is true, and there is no set right or wrong, no God of moral justness, how do you justify your sense of morality over others?

That is, how can you morally judge anyone for what is right or wrong, if morality is solely based on emotions?

Is it morally just to say religious morals are morally unjust?

Without emotions then we're robots. Just going through the 'motions'. Who said there is no right and wrong? I certainly didn't. Up is up and down is down, without Newton, this still applies.

I also don't impose my morality over others. I impose it upon myself. Which then applies outwardly. Wether or not I receive the same, is not a reason to change how I act, but to accept that I am not the be all and end all, and they are ok to be a selfish mug if they want to be. Unless directly, then it doesn't affect me.

I think the point you missed is that I try not to judge people on their actions. I would be judging them based on my own perceptions. I don't know what goes on inside their heads. I can't be in their reality. They may be complete tossers or they may be just having a bad day. They may be absolutely wonderful people, or simply pretending in order to get something.

I don't want to judge people because people have always judged me, assumed things and never given a second thought to the possibility that they may have been wrong.

However, if someone does something bad and then they express joy or pleasure in it, or claim it is a just thing, then I can judge that action and the reasons they justify it. But I can't judge the person.. I don't always live up to that, but it is what I try to do these days.

Having said that, I do know that I express opinions that target specific groups of people who engage in what I consider evil behaviours and claim they are bad people. But they inevitably fall within the collective mindset of a religion. We are, animals, after all.

It certainly has nothing to do with a superior moral high ground, just an understanding of good vs bad. I don't see how god or religion teaches good over bad, when it's based on fear.

Again, it sounds to me like you want to justify people having the moral high ground, basing it on religious doctrine as giving it superiority, or else how can people be morally superior.

Well, in my opinion, morally superior people are lacking in almost every quality that I'd want in myself. So I don't.

reply to post by Klassified


Ahha. How did you do that. Damn...

Took me 90000 words to say the same thing

I blame the coffee once more..

Bleeeeep
reply to post by winofiend

 

The point is that spiritualists have something, believed to be eternally tangible, to based their morality on, where nonspiritualists may only have emotions.

Sorry for not making that clear in the OP.

Eternal is a delusion.

Right now, is all that matters.

I guess that's the premise of my entire reasoning... What happens in a million years? Or a million years ago?

Not a lot that affects our actions right now.

mOjOm

Bleeeeep

Is it morally just to say religious morals are morally unjust?

Just because they are Religious?? No. That wouldn't make any sense. However, what I would ask is whether or not those who follow Religious Morals do so because they actually understand the reason behind those morals or do they just follow them because they are told to do so??

Exactly.

It begs the question, if god was proven as a fallacy tomorrow, how many religios people would abandon their moral compas and go about acting vile.

We'll never know, but at least the athiest with morals would still be the same.

there one of the sadest groups out there. Dead to the most important aspect of there entire being. How lame is that....

Here's your life:

Physical
Intelectual
Emotional
Social
Financial
Spiritual

Spiritual makes up 1/6 of your life. But infact it's bigger than that. it's everything. You can take away the rest but if you take away spiritual it's like your taking the wind away from a sail boat. your dead in the water. ....hmmm let see... no God because my pride and ego and too big and too much in charge,.... NO not likely you're just an idiot who wants to be miserable, hope there's no god, and try and take God away from those who do have God. There morons!

reply to post by Bleeeeep



I answer to me.
If I can sleep at night with a clear conscience and if I wake with a clear conscience then why should I answer to you or your "god"?

reply to post by spartacus699


I wish to take no ones purpose/God/meaning away! Aren't you aware that even if i wanted to i couldn't. How can i take someones meaning, when they are the one's who decide what meaning is?

spartacus699
there one of the sadest groups out there. Dead to the most important aspect of there entire being. How lame is that....

Here's your life:

Physical
Intelectual
Emotional
Social
Financial
Spiritual

Spiritual makes up 1/6 of your life. But infact it's bigger than that. it's everything. You can take away the rest but if you take away spiritual it's like your taking the wind away from a sail boat. your dead in the water. ....hmmm let see... no God because my pride and ego and too big and too much in charge,.... NO not likely you're just an idiot who wants to be miserable, hope there's no god, and try and take God away from those who do have God. There morons!

So much Judgement of others who you don't know anything about and with such confidence in your own superiority too!! And you have the balls to claim that it is us who are full of pride and ego?? Try looking at yourself for a once. We've all been having a nice conversation so far until you arrived casting your judgements upon us. Interesting example you've made of yourself.

I would suggest that you go back and read what others have written since I really think you have it all wrong in how you've chosen to judge everyone else as less than yourself or as having less meaning than yourself. But you're probably already "Too Good" to bother.

reply to post by mOjOm


before i gave you a star you had "666" stars, i saved you. lol

Edit - you're welcome my child. (or maybe i took ur soul.) bwahaha.......

Klassified
I would ask you, what perceived logic there is in pledging your emotional sense of right and wrong to a deity(because he said so), rather than an internal understanding of why society needs a universal etiquette, we refer to as morals, to survive as a group, and flourish as a species?

You, and others, are trying to reason byway of throwing your perceived enemy under the bus. It is not my intention to judge your morality.

The difference in a pledge to an eternal entity/entities with what is believed to be perfect understanding versus a pledge to the emotionally charged self.

Is it your understanding that people know what is wrong or right without divine knowledge? Is there a moral right or wrong without divinity to say such a thing?

Bleeeeep
The point is that spiritualists have something, believed to be eternally tangible, to based their morality on, where nonspiritualists may only have emotions.

That, and other statements from you in this thread, smacks of intensely misinformed assumptions gained through intense ideological indoctrination and brainwashing.

You've been falsely taught by your religious leaders/elders that the concept of true morality comes through religious beliefs. That's false. A fair argument could be made for the opposite once one studies history.

Some of the most immoral people I've known are Christians, and when their immorality is pointed out -- passing judgement on others, for example -- they reject that their actions are immoral.


To get back to your original thought exercise -- I do good because it makes me feel like I'm becoming the better person I want to be. I help the confused old mad in Home Depot, because it feels right. I've taken over menial jobs of Christians on Christmas so they can be with their families, because it feels right.

And I do these things knowing fully well there's nothing after I die. In fact, the nothingness is so complete, I will be unaware of it.

reply to post by justreleased


Lol

Gee thanx. I can't imagine what would have happened if not for you?!?!?

Well, actually, I imagine nothing would happen, but thanks anyway.

I eat people for fun because I don't believe in a god that tells me not to.








How is this still a serious question? How is it difficult to believe(because this is what this thread stems from) that people can be moral without religion, that religion has no monopoly on morality?

Bleeeeep

You, and others, are trying to reason byway of throwing your perceived enemy under the bus. It is not my intention to judge your morality.

You aren't??? Hmmm....could have fooled me.

The difference in a pledge to an eternal entity/entities with what is believed to be perfect understanding versus a pledge to the emotionally charged self.

That's just it though. Just how do you know what that "Perfect Understanding" is?? How could you know since rather than actually understanding those moral principles yourself, you simply take the words of someone else, or a book, or whatever and follow them as if you do understand them. But if you actually did understand them then you would no longer need some other authority would you??

Just because you follow certain rules doesn't mean you are a moral person. It just means you can follow orders.

Is it your understanding that people know what is wrong or right without divine knowledge? Is there a moral right or wrong without divinity to say such a thing?

Not at all. Obviously people don't understand and I imagine the reason may be because they have no knowledge of their own, divine or otherwise. They simply look for someone else to come up with those answers for them and then try and follow along. Which even then must be difficult since they don't know why they are actually following them since they didn't come to those conclusions on their own to begin with.

spartacus699
there one of the sadest groups out there. Dead to the most important aspect of there entire being. How lame is that....

Here's your life:

Physical
Intelectual
Emotional
Social
Financial
Spiritual

Spiritual makes up 1/6 of your life. But infact it's bigger than that. it's everything. You can take away the rest but if you take away spiritual it's like your taking the wind away from a sail boat. your dead in the water. ....hmmm let see... no God because my pride and ego and too big and too much in charge,.... NO not likely you're just an idiot who wants to be miserable, hope there's no god, and try and take God away from those who do have God. There morons!

Shall we revisit your threads sparty? Speaking of miserable and sad. Yet, with god, it seems.

Nothing to do with ego, good buddy.. all about logic.

Intelligence trumps ignorance.

If however, you do ever find peace in god, I expect you'll be someone to push that into everyone you meet. Hopefully you meet like minded people.

reply to post by spartacus699


Now here's a man with no qualms about judging others (which i thought was supposed to be a virtue). No thoughts about how others may feel with his words. And minimal if any humility. I can feel the anger.

This just proves more to me that human nature is too great to resist. We can't wait to throw the gloves off and abandon this so called morality.

The human animal creeps in all the time. I know everyone wrestles with it. It makes you wonder how well these rules are working out for everyone. Ask the millions of dead people who died because someone thought they had a moral right to kill you over a belief system despite the fact their belief system forbids it.

Everything has a purpose only in relation to something other than its self. You want this so you need to do that. We want to live and thrive and as no mans an island we need each other. We need to live together so rules are made.

The problem is the world is not black and white. No matter how bad our brains love to categorize an insane amount of sensory input we still have to be flexible. Mutual existence
is not static nor does every rule fit every scenario. That's why people(animals) with morals can justify doing petty to horrendous things that shouldn't supposedly be crossing their minds.

reply to post by mOjOm


Good post.

How would you express separation between morality, emotional ties to what is believed to be most logical, and what is rational?

Can you give me an example of morally wrong, while at the same time, being rationally right? Is it not morality which believes itself to be most rationally sound?

Bleeeeep


Can you give me an example of morally wrong, while at the same time, being rationally right? Is it not morality which believes itself to be most rationally sound?

Throwing one man onto a train track to stop a cart from killing five?

As others have said:

Empathy and compassion are the main drivers.


And both of these are human traits in all of us (atheists and theists alike). It's a natural human trait. NOT an emotion.

Most of the populace on the planet cares about the welfare of their fellow human beings (and all other living things)... with individual varying degrees in shades of grey.


This ridiculous "morality" terminology thing is a joke... and, I suspect, invented by the CEO's of organized religion.



"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." ~ Albert Einstein



What's an atheist's reason for existence ?

The same damn reason as every other human being....
In a nutshell: To live, love, laugh, and cry.


Is there any other reason ?!
[insert roll eyes here]