It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

You are all gonna live like in socialist scandinavia

page: 4
13
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:20 AM
link   
reply to post by Merinda
 


I tend to agree. The biggest scare tactic used to frighten people if we publicize (rather than privatize) things like education and healthcare, is that we are going to end up like some of these quote, unquote socialist countries. You mean the ones that are beating us in every area from infant mortality to math scores? Not so bad if you ask me.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:20 AM
link   

edit on 12-10-2013 by Loveaduck because: I never posted this a second time so not sure why I am here having to edit it out. Must be some glitch in your system.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:24 AM
link   

neo96

What they forget is there is a reason our ancestors kick Europe to the curb.

For a good reason.


Except Norway, Swedon and Finland are doing a hell of a lot better that the US of A

They are safe
Low debt
Happy
Have a sustainable econemy for the near future.
O and most allow guns

Americans.......Sheesh



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:26 AM
link   

txinfidel
reply to post by Bassago
 


Precisely it's great as they are quelled already and no opposition. They're form of opposition is vandalism and throwing rocks and sticks.


Excpet in Norway and I think Swedon gun ownsership is allowed.


Bang goes you argument!



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:30 AM
link   
I lived in "Socialist Europe" for a total of 9 years(3 in Germany, 2 in U.K., 4 in Spain). And while there were certainly some things in Europe that were well run, efficient, and superior to their American analogues (the public transit systems and food quality guidelines come to mind), I certainly do not wish to see the U.S. emulate Europe in any significant manner. Sure, there is a lot more social and governmental security in the European countries, but it comes at a price, one I find a little too high for my tastes.

What I think we need here in the U.S. is a more effective and efficient safety net. And by safety net, I do not necessarily mean a direct financial aid one, although that is certainly part of it of the bigger question. One of the things we need to do is to directly and realistically address reasons for homelessness, chronic or high unemployment, rampant employment instability, poverty, and urban decay. I personally believe there are numerous reasons, but are seldom addressed.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Really Wrabbit? I always thought you a bit more open minded than that?



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:34 AM
link   

neo96
1

You need data on 30 million illegals who have come to America and millions more on the way?

Really?



YES! Because we in the EU are being flooded by illegals from Africa and the ME!

So it be nice to compare data!

Or do only Mexicans count?



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Merinda
 


I'm an American living in Scandinavia and have been doing so for quite a while. Socialism will only work under perfect circumstances. Add things like illegal immigrants and immigrants who refuse to work and you have a major issue.

Countries in Europe are starting to see the problems they've brought upon themselves now.

You think it's bad in the states now with illegals getting free health care on your dime? Just you wait. Should socialism become accepted, you'll be kicking yourself in the rear. This is when people who think free healthcare actually means "free" that it's anything but "free". This is when they raise an eyebrow to the high taxes and scratch themselves on the head.

Of course, this is just one issue. There are a ton. Socialism brings those who do not want to work. Norway is a great example of that.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 08:54 AM
link   
reply to post by Auricom
 


The big argument between socialism and capitalism was always one of perception, the individual is part of the group but in socialism the structure is based around this and in capitalism it is based around the individual, the safety nets in europe are being abused by those for whom they were never intended, the financial support for the unemployed and the health care as well as legislature was intended to reward the work and help those whom could not work ( not those whom WOULD not work ) weather through ill health or lack of job's.
The wealth of the wealthy whom worked within this system was safe as long as it worked and higher taxes were offset by a more stable system and government subsidised industry to provide labour the necessary job's however greed is not limited to the elite and the cost of living is always spiralling in a system were corporations are constantly needing year by year profit increases to please there shareholders and pay there CEO's there nich little bonus's which causes those prices even in an otherwise stable market to need to increase year by year thus creating an unsustainable spiraling inflation that wage's NEED to keep pace with.
We are stuck with the corporate monsters and CEO conmen weather we like them or not as they control the government's through non elected lobby groups and ensure through bribary and donation that there own man alway's get's the top government job.


So yeah ditch socialism and wait fot he fires that will burn your homes down when the poor finally snap under your weight or adopt a middle of the road system and pay your fair due in tax but first and here is an essential crux, fix the system and make sure those whom will not work (not those whom can not) and those whom come for free benefit's do not get any.

edit on 12-10-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 09:11 AM
link   
reply to post by txinfidel
 


You mean the bill of rights that the Gov has been using for toilet paper?



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 09:15 AM
link   
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Just be sure to read everything I wrote in that before judging. I'd hate to think someone reads the first line and assumes the rest just supports it.

In the end, I'd say everyone who doesn't live in a nation outright crappy by even their own population's overall consensus, does think their own to be among the best if not the best, depending on examples used.

What isn't healthy about that, if not taken to the extreme of hubris? If people don't think that of their own nation, where is the pride and drive to do better? That's where I think Nationalism is a good thing ...but taken to the extremes of being very bad too. Entirely too often, perhaps.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 09:27 AM
link   
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



After 200+ years of being told that you're the BEST in the world, despite all the evidence against it, that mentality is pervasive.

So anything other than how America is right now, scares the HELL out of Americans. A product of the war on terror and the middle class.


I'll admit right here I haven't read the rest of the thread - but this post got my attention

I think you're right - when a people begin to see their flaws, sometimes it does scare the hell out of them. But, instead of owning up to that - we sometimes go the other way

I've noticed recently that rather than admit something isn't going the way we'd like it to go - we instead say everybody and everything is corrupt, bad - wrong. Seems to be a theme lately. Funny - but in this way we never have to admit a wrong choice or that something needs to be worked on and improved. It's all or nothing - either WE are all good - or EVERYBODY is all bad :-)

I was just having a similar conversation with a friend of mine (who isn't American) about this very thing

I was explaining how, from a very early age - we here in the states are inundated with both positive and negative reinforcement about what it means to be American - and to be a good American. God knows - we are competitive. Winning, and being better is more important than pretty much anything. We are the best. If it's not exactly true we will tell ourselves it's true until we can hardly hold a thought to the contrary in our pretty little American heads

It's in all our media - radio, movies, television, our music...our churches - our sports - our politics. We are the best. Land of the free - home of the brave. It's even in the Daniel Boone theme song - it's everywhere - subtle or blatant - everywhere.

So, after however many generations of listening to ourselves chatter to and at each other about how magnificent we are - it's no wonder we buy into to it (almost) unanimously and completely

Our country is a wonderful country in so many ways, so - it is true in some respects. America is amazing. However - if you doubt her - if you criticize? Well, we all know how that plays out...

Nationalism is a scary thing - so we call it patriotism. To my ears, Homeland security always had the ring of Fatherland to it - and as we all know - Father can be kinda strict

Seems to me a country - like a person - begins to grow up and be wise and balanced when it can look at itself in the mirror and acknowledge both the flaws and the beauty. America will become even better as she ages - she is still the new kid on the block in so many ways and it's gonna sting some when she realizes shes not the only pretty girl in the room - but - that's what it takes to grow sometimes

God love her - warts and all


edit on 10/12/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: needs to be the best :-)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 09:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Now you put it in that context I understand abit better.


I think because one of my intrests is learning about other cultures and traverling I do forget to sometimes sit back and think whats good about the UK and there are alot of things that make the UK special like for you and the USA.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 10:42 AM
link   
Intresting observation I had on another thread. I listed all the succesful countrys I know that have Free markets.

Caymans
Hong Kong
Bahamas
Virgin Islands
singapore


And all the succesfull Socialist like states:
Norway
Finland
Swedon
Denmark


I see a pattern

They all seem to have either a small country size or low population.

So it seems that its not really the system that is at fault but rather the size of a country. As soon as you get a large goverment trying to rule over a large population problems arise.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 10:57 AM
link   
Here's a link to national debts of many nations.

compare

wild debt spending is a worldwide problem.

National Debt Clocks



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 10:57 AM
link   

crazyewok

YES! Because we in the EU are being flooded by illegals from Africa and the ME!

So it be nice to compare data!

Or do only Mexicans count?


I would not stake my life on Mexicans comprising the majority of undocumented/unlawful immigrants living and working in the US. There are huge numbers of Asians, Central and South Americans, even many Canadians as well as many others from other parts of the globe. Of course many (most??) of the complainers mostly only gripe about "brown people" and that most any Spanish-speaking Latinos are all referred to as "Mexicans" whether they actually are nationals from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Colombia, etc., and often whether or not they may be legitimate US citizens of Latino heritage.


edit on 12-10-2013 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 11:05 AM
link   

xuenchen
Here's a link to national debts of many nations.

compare

wild debt spending is a worldwide problem.

National Debt Clocks


Debts not nessarly a bad thing. It if its sustainble borrowing thats the probelm.
edit on 12-10-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 11:06 AM
link   
reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 

Ya missing the point.

Its that both the EU and USA both get heavy immigration.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 11:18 AM
link   
I'm afraid the US model is NOTHING like Scandinivian countries that enjoy the highest standard of living in the world and including after tax dollars, and have the very best programs.

We get told their taxes are atrocious. But in reality, they are comparative to ours, with higher taxes on the high levels, so its only the wealthy that pay more, sales tax excluded.

They have price control in Norway, ie housing, food and utlities, education.

They look after their own and have a form of democracy that is the most democratic and one of the best in the world: proprotional democracy. It creates more parties, not less, more coalitions, everyones votes counting, not winner take all, and more power to the people.

Health care is either free or low cost.

What you guys have is NOT ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

US IS NOT SOCIALIST ANYTHING FOR THEY HAVE LACK OF SERVICES, AND HORRENDOUS HEALTH CARE, WITH TONS OF HOMELESS AND POOR. US IS FASCISM, NOT SOCIAL DEMOCRACY. WHAT YOU GUYS CALL SOCIALISM I CALL MORE RIGHT WING THAN GENGHIS KHAN.

Now, in reality, unless a country looks after its own and is socially fair and equal, ie a true social democracy that empowers the grass roots people and has many voices in leadership, not a couple winner take all parties, with lots of programs for women and children and recognizes childcare and family as work of equal value.......its NOT A DEMOCRACY AT ALL. Women are 52 % of the population past the age of 20, and that gap widens. They're majority and their values, their needs and their energies HAD BETTER BE REPRESENTED POLITICALLY OR ITS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

THE US IS A WAR AND DOG EAT DOG, SOCIAL INEQUALITY MACHINE THAT REALLY HARMS FAMILY, WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
edit on 12-10-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 11:32 AM
link   
I'm sorry I got mad, but the level of ignorance of world politics and the massive programming for SLAVERY in the US is incredible, just mind boggling to me. I've been studying Norway, which is the wonderful nation of some of my ancestors, for a very long time. They're the most advanced country in the world, minus the dark hats there keeping whaling going and things to try and lower their frequency. In the past when you went to their government site, you'd find they didn't even call themselves socialists, for the same values are expressed no matter which party gets in, even if it is a more conservative mix. What they did is honor their constitution, which gives equality, the kind that equalizes situations, in other real equality, to both women and men. Women's issues and men's issues. They have incredibly low cost services, ie you would never in your lifetime see 1700 dollar a month medicare services for your family. It would be free or under 100 a month.


This Country Beats France

NORWAY!

There is no country on earth that shines it light of equality and takes care of its own people as strongly as the Scandinavian countries.

US is a system run by elites and royalty, of slavery. Darth Vader on earth.

What you're calling socialism is FASCISM. True Socialism is about Equality and Freedom, and it empowers and equalizes the grass roots people, and educates them without poisons and watered down lies, to be the best they can be.
edit on 12-10-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)







 
13
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join