Concerns about whooping cough vaccine during pregnancy! Help!

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posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Just to be clear it isn't myself who is pregnant it is my eldest daughter.....and although I am way toooo young to be a granny
she is expecting my second grandchild.

She came back from a hospital appointment today and rung me to tell me that she was told that she will need to receive a vaccination against whooping cough. I couldn't understand why as she received all of her scheduled vaccinations as a child. She informed me that the vaccine wasn't for her protection as such but so that her unborn child would be exposed to the vaccine and thus have some immunity before he/she is even born.
She was told it's a big problem and that the last couple of years that a lot of babies had caught whooping cough before they are normally scheduled to start at 2months old.

My youngest children are 6 years old now I have never had any experience with this vaccine but because of the things she knows I am interested in she asked me if I would research it a bit for her. I honestly don't know what to say to her??

Apparently.... the vaccine they use isn't just for whooping cough as a single vaccine for this isn't on the market but they give a combination vaccine against diphtheria, tetanus, AND whooping cough. She wasn't told this. As far as I can see this vaccine as never been tested on pregnant women and there is no clinical trial data outlining the safety of using this vaccine while pregnant.

And also....the big push in the UK is to advise women that although there is no clinical data relating to using this vaccine during pregnancy that they have been using this vaccine in women in the US safely and effectively for the last couple of years.....so don't worry!
But as far as I can see the vaccine they use in the US isn't even the same vaccine used in the UK!

I'm just wondering if anybody knows any information both in the US and the UK regarding this vaccine? She as asked for my help and as this is a very serious issue I'm feeling the burden to be as very well informed as I can!
edit on 11-10-2013 by Logos23 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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If you sincerely care for your daughter and grand daughter's health and well being, please consult a proper healthcare professional about this vaccine, not some strangers on a conspiracy website.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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MegaManXMan
If you sincerely care for your daughter and grand daughter's health and well being, please consult a proper healthcare professional about this vaccine, not some strangers on a conspiracy website.


Agree there are to many wacka doodles on here that will give you new age health advice crap and psudo scientific articals that twist the facts.

As the above said go to a REAL doctor or better yet 2.

Unfortunatly woophing cough is one of the few vaccines I havent been involved with so I wont dare comment.
edit on 11-10-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


reply to post by MegaManXMan
 


If you knew me you would know I don't take advice off strangers and rarely take it from friends either! lol .....but there is a great lacking of information on the subject. I asked if anyone had any information on the subject so that it might help as starting points to research it better. As I was suggesting in my post the official information given by health professionals in the UK is a bit sketchy at best and therefore it would be better to be a bit more informed prior to any discussions with a health professional.
Sometimes without doing a little research it is difficult to even know the right questions to ask. Honestly please dont confuse me with individuals who take on board everything that is thrown at them on here...because that is not me!

But thank you both for your genuine concern



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Logos23
 


I will see if I can have a dig about on peer reviewed scientfic journals I have access to.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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when you do visit any doctors ask if they would personally vaccinate themselves when pregnant or their family with this shot.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Thank you....I really do appreciate it!



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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Logos23
reply to post by crazyewok
 


Thank you....I really do appreciate it!


Check your PM

Its just Im not sure I can publicaly publish them on here as they are from paid for journals and not in the free public doman so not sure were that stands T&C wise as posting them onlines sort of a copyright breach I think



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Logos23
 

Hi my instinct says DON'T LET HER, but common sense says I am not an immunologist or neonatal practitioner. Ok I got all that off my chest, I'll share info from this article in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

If they are not concerned for her immunity, according to this, they should not be concerned for the baby's:


What is transferred across the placenta in many species is a fair sample of the mother's antibodies. How this happens depends on the structure of the placenta, which varies among species. In humans maternal IgG antibodies—but not those of the other immunoglobulin classes—are transported across the placenta into the fetal bloodstream throughout the second two-thirds of pregnancy.


And if she plans to breast feed:


The early milk (colostrum) is very rich in antibodies—mainly IgA but also some IgM and IgG—and during the first few days of life the newborn mammal can absorb these proteins intact from the digestive tract directly into the bloodstream.




After a newborn has received its supply of maternal antibodies, it is as fully protected as its mother.


It goes on to mention some doctors recommending the pregnant woman get a tetanus booster (although, how many newborns step on a rusty nail?)

This sentence raised my eyebrow:



The active immunization of pregnant women against certain viral diseases, such as rubella [German measles], must be avoided, however, because the immunizing agent can cross the placenta and produce severe fetal complications.


Source:Encyclopedia Britannica

That's just one source, but a good one. The truth is out there-- you will help her make the right decision.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by MegaManXMan
 


Sure... good luck finding a reputable health care provider who isn't in the bag for BIG PHARMA.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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new_here
reply to post by Logos23
 


It goes on to mention some doctors recommending the pregnant woman get a tetanus booster (although, how many newborns step on a rusty nail?)


Actually, tetanus doesn't really have anything to do with rusty nails, other than that they're sharp and likely dirty and tend to cause puncture wounds.

Your best bet for getting tetanus is to cut your foot and step in cow poo. However, you can get it from a variety of other means, and one is from the umbilical stump. If Mom has no tetanus immunity, she doesn't pass it on to the baby passively prior to birth. The kid can then get tetanus from the umbilical cord stump, if he's exposed to spores. This tends to happen more to kids born at home, because the dog and/or cat can carry tetanus and not have an active infection. So, for that matter, can ag workers. It's not unusual for farmers to harbor the bacteria for it, sort of like people carrying MRSA around in their nostrils.

If Mom is given DTAP, then she'll pass along a temporary immunity to tetanus to the kid, good enough to get them past the umbilicus healing.



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by new_here
 


Thanks for the input


You brought up one of the things I was thinking about myself....my daughter does plan to breast feed. But I'm not sure if the course of vaccines she was given as a child covers her now as an adult and as such if the antibodies would be passed on in breastmilk...I have a lot of researching to do!

I don't personally know of anybody who as had whooping cough....apart from myself, as my parents decided against giving me the vaccine, and that kind of didn't work out too well! So I am mindful of this....

I just need to find out as much information as possible...ultimately it is her choice...I just want to be able to assist her in making the right one for her which she is comfortable and happy with!
edit on 11-10-2013 by Logos23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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OptimusSubprime
reply to post by MegaManXMan
 


Sure... good luck finding a reputable health care provider who isn't in the bag for BIG PHARMA.


It's probably not as difficult as finding an anti-vaxxer who actually understands science and medicine though.....


I've had a good look around for anything that would make me question giving this to any of my family and I'm struggling.
As has been said though, speak with your daughter's maternity unit. They'll have more experience with it than anyone on here.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 12:28 AM
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new_here
reply to post by Logos23
 

Hi my instinct says DON'T LET HER, but common sense says I am not an immunologist or neonatal practitioner. Ok I got all that off my chest, I'll share info from this article in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

If they are not concerned for her immunity, according to this, they should not be concerned for the baby's:




After a newborn has received its supply of maternal antibodies, it is as fully protected as its mother.




Source:Encyclopedia Britannica

That's just one source, but a good one. The truth is out there-- you will help her make the right decision.


Thankfully medicine isn't driven by instinct but by tried and tested scientific method.

I would also suggest that if you're going to give "information" include ALL of the relevant information and don't cherry-pick. In the article you cited you neglected to quote probably THE most important part of it which is this:

"As important as the passively transferred maternal antibodies are, their effects are only temporary. The maternal antibodies in the blood become diluted as the animal grows; moreover, they gradually succumb to normal metabolic breakdown. Because the active development of acquired immunity is a slow and gradual process, young mammals actually become more susceptible to infection during their early stages of growth than they are immediately after birth."

Hence the rationale for vaccination.

Did that paragraph just slip you by?
Did you think it wasn't very important?
Or did you just ignore it completely for a reason?

I know which answer my money's on.

Yes OP, the truth is indeed out there but there are some people who wish to hide it from you.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 12:58 AM
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I have worked in healthcare for years, and can tell you that if you want an unbiased opinion, your doctor is the last person you should talk to.

It is a choice, don't let her get bullied into it.

I won't do any cut and pasting from various sources, since the vaccine supporters seem to be out in force tonight. But here are some things I found that you may want to read, and then form your own opinion.

Label insert for a TDAP vaccine. Warns that it has not been tested for safety in pregnant women

Blog from woman who feels it may have caused her babys stillbirth, with other info

Mayo clinic says it is safe....but all the med sites will say this.


Bottom line, is what does your daughter think? She should research herself too and determine what she thinks is best for her baby. Personally, I have NEVER taken a flu shot and never will. I worked in an ER during the swine flu outbreak and whooping cough and I fully believe the 'vaccines' helped spread it, especially the nasal sprays. I would NEVER take any type of vaccine while pregnant. Why take the risk? I didn't even drink caffeine or take Tylenol for fear of harming my babies, why would I put toxins and other unknowns that could potentially harm them?



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 01:21 AM
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and while you are at it download the ingredients in these vaccines and make the decision yourself without being swayed by those in "the know".....



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 02:27 AM
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Safety and efficacy in pregnant women is one area of vaccines that I am woefully uninformed about, so I'm not going to try to make an argument whether your daughter should or should not get the vaccine, other than to simply say that I'm inclined to take the word of the doctor quite strongly.

That said, I just want to point something out. The reason this is even an issue, the reason her baby is at an increased risk of whooping cough, is very simple:

Anti-vaxxers are are scaring parents into avoiding safe and beneficial vaccines for their children, which is increasing the pools of those who can be infected and creating whooping cough outbreaks in many locations across the US and in various parts of Europe. There are innocent babies born to parents who fully intend to vaccinate them as soon as they are old enough who are DYING because of OTHER PARENTS who refuse to vaccinate their children.

By destroying heard immunity (basically a certain percentage of the population needs to be vaccinated to prevent outbreaks and thus keep the very young and those who cannot receive vaccines for health reasons), anti-vaxxers are endangering the health of your future grandchild.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by Microbiologist
 


Actually, you are WRONG.

For example, the area in California that was hardest hit in 2010 had a study done that showed 80% of those infected with whooping cough were CURRENT on the whooping cough vaccine. So to say that parents not wanting to vaccinate their kids are responsible for the recent whooping cough outbreak is gross misstatement.

I am sick of people saying this. I got whooping cough a year and a half ago. Guess what? I had just had a TDAP less than a year before. People getting the vaccine thought they were immune, so even when they became symptomatic they kept exposing others and spreading it, because they didn't think they could get it!

There are finally studies emerging that indicate a new strain is out there that the current vaccine doesn't work against. DUH...I knew this over a year ago, because it was very obvious to me here in Washington State.

new strain


I just get sick of the propaganda. If the vaccine isn't working, than giving people a false sense of security is not doing anyone any good. They need to admit to the problem...the booster is NOT working.



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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westcoast
reply to post by Microbiologist
 


Actually, you are WRONG.

For example, the area in California that was hardest hit in 2010 had a study done that showed 80% of those infected with whooping cough were CURRENT on the whooping cough vaccine. So to say that parents not wanting to vaccinate their kids are responsible for the recent whooping cough outbreak is gross misstatement.

I am sick of people saying this. I got whooping cough a year and a half ago. Guess what? I had just had a TDAP less than a year before. People getting the vaccine thought they were immune, so even when they became symptomatic they kept exposing others and spreading it, because they didn't think they could get it!

There are finally studies emerging that indicate a new strain is out there that the current vaccine doesn't work against. DUH...I knew this over a year ago, because it was very obvious to me here in Washington State.

new strain


I just get sick of the propaganda. If the vaccine isn't working, than giving people a false sense of security is not doing anyone any good. They need to admit to the problem...the booster is NOT working.


I'm afraid he isn't wrong at all.
The tenet of herd immunity is probably even more relevant in this case.

You wrote "So to say that parents not wanting to vaccinate their kids are responsible for the recent whooping cough outbreak is gross misstatement."
Did you actually read what you wrote?
Do you understand what you're saying?
Who do you think propagates disease, vaccinated or unvaccinated?
If you believe it's the former I suggest you go back to school.

And the vaccine still works, especially in those who really need the extra protection.
www.cdc.gov...
www.nejm.org...



posted on Oct, 12 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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Pardon?

new_here
reply to post by Logos23
 

Hi my instinct says DON'T LET HER, but common sense says I am not an immunologist or neonatal practitioner. Ok I got all that off my chest, I'll share info from this article in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

If they are not concerned for her immunity, according to this, they should not be concerned for the baby's:




After a newborn has received its supply of maternal antibodies, it is as fully protected as its mother.




Source:Encyclopedia Britannica

That's just one source, but a good one. The truth is out there-- you will help her make the right decision.


Thankfully medicine isn't driven by instinct but by tried and tested scientific method.

I would also suggest that if you're going to give "information" include ALL of the relevant information and don't cherry-pick. In the article you cited you neglected to quote probably THE most important part of it which is this:

"As important as the passively transferred maternal antibodies are, their effects are only temporary. The maternal antibodies in the blood become diluted as the animal grows; moreover, they gradually succumb to normal metabolic breakdown. Because the active development of acquired immunity is a slow and gradual process, young mammals actually become more susceptible to infection during their early stages of growth than they are immediately after birth."

Hence the rationale for vaccination.

Did that paragraph just slip you by?
Did you think it wasn't very important?
Or did you just ignore it completely for a reason?

I know which answer my money's on.

Yes OP, the truth is indeed out there but there are some people who wish to hide it from you.


You can decide for yourself the most important points, as can the OP, which is why I posted a link. What I found to be the most important part is that the passive transfer in utero followed by breast feeding provides full immunity to whatever the mother is immune to. This is nature at its finest. Did you miss the part about the vaccine agents passing the placental barrier?

And btw, I tend to believe that medicine is driven by neither instinct nor loyalty to the scientific method, but rather greed.

I only wish to share what strikes me as the most important points, as do you. I accept you believe differently. Perhaps together our posts provide a more rounded take. Still, OP, these are our OPINIONS and neither I nor Logos23 would bid you stake a newborn's life on what we type here. That much Logos23 and I can agree on I am sure!





 
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