Questions for Christians

The Christian idea that we fell away from god out of our own selfish nature bothers me. To me it seems like we were just handed over to Satan to be his play things. Most people aren't even given a chance. We are fed lie after lie, poison after poison without having a clue of what's really going on. Vaccines anyone? How is it that its our fault that we are so evil in our nature? Humanity was tricked and programmed to the core with Satan's software from the start. In the beginning we were innocent, then God let Satan in and that was it. Like we had a choice? Or chance? And we are supposed to be faithful, grateful, and obedient in spite off the fact that we are born into a life of slavery?

Another thing that's difficult about following Christ is of course the conspiracy surrounding him. The dogma of Christ appears to be entirely based on astrology. Is it just a parallel that compliments both sides? How does a Christian deal with knowing this?

Any Christians out there care to comment?

reply to post by Tucket


First question: Would you blame your parents for all of your life's mistakes? Have you no freewill? Did Adam and Eve not choose of their own freewill?

Basically, your question sets up a false dilemma. If you choose that we should not have freewill, then you are effectively saying we should be nothing but a forced illusion of God's own concepts - to which, our illusion of freewill would not matter anyway. If we are not to have a choice, then a choice between good and evil is null and void.

Second question: Jesus is all the structure of reality. From everything astrological to the very makeup of whatever a mental image is made of. Beyond that, I have no idea of what you're talking about. Probably some zeitgeist bs?

reply to post by Tucket

The Holy Foundation was Laid for us, being granted will as sovereign Creations.

The Foundations were corrupted by a Creation that Ignored Holy Instruction (as we do today).

We are here to be Tested as to our allegiances toward our Creator and His Ways in the Good Spirit of Divined Righteousness.

The Bible that contains the precepts of Christ is the Bedrock for how to pass the earthen test for soul progression to the Mansions of Heaven, Revealing the snares, ways and plans of the Devil ahead of time as His Inspired Prophecy manifests outside what we know as time (illusion).

Unfortunately holy texts over the course of millenia have been perverted by mankind's will in some ways by enemy manipulation to confuse and snare--- therefore one must diligently seek and pray to be Led by the Spirit of Truth on their quest for it via the Holy Spirit that Rewards genuine leaps of faith as part of this Test in Measure.

Tucket
The Christian idea that we fell away from god out of our own selfish nature bothers me. To me it seems like we were just handed over to Satan to be his play things.

It's not the Christian idea we fell from God due to a selfish nature. It was disobedience, not selfishness.

Most people aren't even given a chance. We are fed lie after lie, poison after poison without having a clue of what's really going on.

Your opinion does not make it true.

Vaccines anyone?

eeerrr... huh?

How is it that its our fault that we are so evil in our nature? Humanity was tricked and programmed to the core with Satan's software from the start.

Are you going to back up even one of these erroneous statements?

In the beginning we were innocent, then God let Satan in and that was it. Like we had a choice? Or chance? And we are supposed to be faithful, grateful, and obedient in spite off the fact that we are born into a life of slavery?

Obey God, believe Satan. That's a choice. They made the wrong one. You are supposed to be grateful that God gave you a way out of "slavery" despite you causing the problem yourself.

Another thing that's difficult about following Christ is of course the conspiracy surrounding him. The dogma of Christ appears to be entirely based on astrology. Is it just a parallel that compliments both sides? How does a Christian deal with knowing this?

Any Christians out there care to comment?

No, it does not appear to be based on Astrology. Another baseless argument which you do not back up.

It's really hard to answer any of your questions since you make statements that are simply wrong and offer no evidence that can be refuted.

Tucket
How is it that its our fault that we are so evil in our nature?

Don't need a Christian to answer that.
A self respecting person with half a thimble of common sense see's this as the crux of your issue.
It's a cop out to boot.
You are what you decide to be.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


But hasn't freewill been highjacked by TPTB in many cases? And yeah its Zeitgeist bs. But the astrological parallels are there..

reply to post by badgerprints


We separated from God in the beginning right? Was this because of a selfish nature before we encountered Satan? Or was our selfishness stimulated by Satan.

Yes we decide who we want to be. I consider myself a good person. Do unto others.. But thoughts run through my head that don't coincide with Jesus. Jesus says something about even thinking about adultery is sin..

Tucket
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

But hasn't freewill been highjacked by TPTB in many cases? And yeah its Zeitgeist bs. But the astrological parallels are there..

No, they aren't. They made that all up, as in, it's completely wrong. They did it because people will believe it without even checking to see if it's true .. like you did.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Disobedience and selfishness are directly related.

The first "program" started with Satan's deception in the garden. Afterwards, we have the theme of war, suffering, and oppression continuously throughout history. Now we have things like ULFs and fluoride in our water. Do I need to back these things up?

Have you done any research into the correlations between Jesus and astrology? Zeitgeist does reveal some interesting parallels.

OccamsRazor04

Tucket
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

But hasn't freewill been highjacked by TPTB in many cases? And yeah its Zeitgeist bs. But the astrological parallels are there..

No, they aren't. They made that all up, as in, it's completely wrong. They did it because people will believe it without even checking to see if it's true .. like you did.

All you have to do to check for truth is examine the constellations, the stars, the equinoxes, the suns movement patterns. You'll see the parallels. The sun is the son.

reply to post by Tucket

All you have to do to check for truth is examine the constellations, the stars, the equinoxes, the suns movement patterns. You'll see the parallels. The sun is the son.

Zeitgeist is a cunning deception weaving in truth with fallacy in perverting the True identity of Christ as the only begotten Son Seated at the Right Hand of the Father. May you come to the truth of that matter, for such media is a dangerous snare to shake the faith of many at this late hour, close to the great deception that will be occurring.

I hope you find this link useful to your research efforts---and it is interesting I came across it as I was researching the fallen angels and not at all in the avenues of the zodiac linked in. I do not believe in coincidence, so I will share it with you on that matter.
www.mt.net...

Tucket

OccamsRazor04

Tucket
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

But hasn't freewill been highjacked by TPTB in many cases? And yeah its Zeitgeist bs. But the astrological parallels are there..

No, they aren't. They made that all up, as in, it's completely wrong. They did it because people will believe it without even checking to see if it's true .. like you did.

All you have to do to check for truth is examine the constellations, the stars, the equinoxes, the suns movement patterns. You'll see the parallels. The sun is the son.

No, they aren't. Seriously, Sun is Son? You do realize the original language is NOT English right?

Son = בֵּן ben
Sun = שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh

The rest of it is just as nonsensical.

reply to post by Tucket

The Christian idea that we fell away from god out of our own selfish nature bothers me.

What God wants is for us to be better people so as to not be selfish.
We don't need to be offering sacrifices to a god as if we need to placate Him, as what seems to be depicted in parts of the Old Testament.
I don't know if the Eden story in Genesis is actual history, so we may never have ever been innocent to start with.
Whatever we are, and however we got this way, should be left behind us as we move forward towards getting to be better than we were in the past.

reply to post by Tucket


If you trust in Jesus Christ then all of your questions and concerns can be answered. I encourage you to live by simple devotion to God. How do you do that? Pray daily, talk to God, thank him, praise him and He will make you whole. It really works. Try it for one week and see if you don't feel better. Man, read Romans! Romans chapters 6 & 7 will really help you out and provide insight into the human condition. We are born into sin and Jesus is the only thing that can save us. He gives us the Holy Spirit and It fills us with so much love that there is more than we need and it just spills over into those around us. If your are born again you are not of this world anymore, don't let this world bring you down. If God is with you, who could possibly be against you. You have nothing to fear.

Keep the faith, God bless

reply to post by Tucket


The nature of you question boils down to free will vs environmental influence. Are we purely the products of our environment, or do we have freedom to choose?

The questions you raise show that you have the ability to think despite the environment of lies that surround all of us. So that speaks of your freedom to choose.

Adam and Eve made their choice. The perfect environment did not protect them fron sin. The one and only environmental flaw was the temptation introduced by the serpent. Adam and Eve had every reason to ignore the snake and trust in the God that provided them with all they could ever need and want, but they made the decision to separate themselves from God. Its like not listening to your parents when they tell you not to stick your hand in the fire. You can trust your parents or learn the hard way.

If you really want to know the truth, then you must personally ask God for the truth. He will provide if you seek it. If you dont believe in God, then who is worthy to provide you with the truth?

The truth is that Jesus died for the sins of all humanity (passed, present and future). If you believe that He did this for you, then you have eternal life. If you question His integrity or think He was a conspirator, then consider the fact that He fulfilled every OT prophecy regarding His first arrival. He fulfilled the Lamb of God sacrafice.

If He was a conspirator, then you must account for 4000 years of prophecy concerning His arrival, the highly publicized miracles He produced, and the content of His message. Would an evil conspirator willingly teach forgiveness, love, and faith through His own death for the sake of His Father's will?...for the sake of your eternal soul? Would a conspirator take His conspiracy to the death???

Jesus was a real historical figure. All the esoteric nonsense about His connections with Horace, Dionysus, Krishna, Vishnu, etc are entirely unfounded. You can look for yourself. Compare the pro Christ view with the pro mythology view in detail, and see what holds more water.

If you do believe in Christ as your savior, then confess your known sins to God the Father in private (1John 1:9), so that the Holy Spirit can make the truth visible to your eyes.

But remeber, man is not the product of environment but the product of free will.

Ps. I highly recommend the mt.net link posted by Primelight.

In my early years as a believer, I slipped into apathy. Then I saw Zeitgueist. It shook me to the bone. It was my need to know the truth regarding the Zeitgueist claims that rekindled my love for God.

I asked Him as the Creator to show me the truth, and what He presented broke the Zeitgueist lie into pieces. But yes, I do believe the New World Order put Zeitguiest out to prepare us for the Anti-christ...he is coming.

reply to post by Tucket


Your view is so far off that it will probably be difficult for you to grasp at first. The following will sound completely alien to what you have heard:

Jesus is the image of the Father. If you think of your mental images as symbols then you can understand how they are words because symbols are words and words are symbols. That is, your mental images are symbols of your concepts. Think of it like the body, or the embodiment, of a concept creates an image, body, structure, form, image of light, Word, etc. That's what Jesus is. He is the light of the images, the body of the images, the structure of form, etc. He is the image, and within him, we were created.

The Father is the thinker. He is the creator of concepts. He is the awareness that sees and thinks. He is consciousness or mind. He is the one who creates the order. He is the imager and Jesus, and all that exists, is his image.

The Holy Spirit is the will, or energy, or motion which allows the imager to image. He is the will of all that manifests actions or movements. When you see anything say spirit in the Bible, it means manifested will. It is your desire made manifest. It is the energy which allows for the potential to be. It is ability and causality.

Now take the Trinity mind, will, and body and put them each into a body. Father is embodied as Yahweh - he is mind. Son is embodied as Jesus - he is body. Holy Spirit is embodied as many things - he is will.

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

It is saying in our image and in our likeness. Most people confuse this to mean image and likeness is the same thing. Where image is thought to be a likeness. As if it is reiterating the same thing, but it is not. It means in our image (Jesus) and in our likeness (the Trinity).

Colossians 1:12-17

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The image is the Son. All things were made in him. In image.

And then there are many more verses throughout the bible saying Jesus is the body and the Word and the Son, etc. It's all saying the same thing. He is the structure or form of reality.

He is not astrology. He is the stars and the moons and the planets and everything. If there is structure to it - it is Jesus.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


As for TPTB taking over will. Well yes and no. Yes in the same sense that you are trying to take over our will by having us think your concepts. It's basically [good] concept (re)production. Where [good] is just your concept of what is good or right...

When you become aware of something you will create a [good] concept for it. Your version of what is right or [good]. It could be that the thing itself is viewed as [bad] but you will not accept a [bad] concept of it. No one tries to produce bad, they're trying to reproduce their version of good/right. TPTB are trying to do their version of [good] but it turns out to be unjust so it is [bad].

Everything is a lot simpler than we imagine. We are just confused because we have no faith. If you have faith in God and just ask - he'll tell you if it is good for you to know.

Think of it like this:
The whole astrological nonsense is from people making images of their concepts, and then others coming along and making more images of those images/concepts, and so on and so forth.

And TPTB try to make your will/concepts be their will/concepts, just as everyone does to each other every time they converse, but really, will can only be given - but that is not to say everyone is infallible, cause they're not - everyone's will can be broken or easily manipulated if they give over their will to the situation.

If you cannot understand parts of this post, ask and I'll try to rephrase it, or expand upon it. I know it is likely a completely different perspective than what you are familiar, as I focus on the concepts, rather than the images themselves.

Tucket
The Christian idea that we fell away from god out of our own selfish nature bothers me. To me it seems like we were just handed over to Satan to be his play things. Most people aren't even given a chance. We are fed lie after lie, poison after poison without having a clue of what's really going on. Vaccines anyone? How is it that its our fault that we are so evil in our nature? Humanity was tricked and programmed to the core with Satan's software from the start. In the beginning we were innocent, then God let Satan in and that was it. Like we had a choice? Or chance? And we are supposed to be faithful, grateful, and obedient in spite off the fact that we are born into a life of slavery?

Another thing that's difficult about following Christ is of course the conspiracy surrounding him. The dogma of Christ appears to be entirely based on astrology. Is it just a parallel that compliments both sides? How does a Christian deal with knowing this?

Any Christians out there care to comment?

We do not have to deal with knowing that because that is not the God we know. It is through Jesus that we are saved, which is more than a chance for those who love him.

Ideas are one thing but the word of God is the truth. Your ideas of Christianity or the conspiracy you believe surrounds it are not true to his word. Only by reading his word is it possible to know him or understand that. There's just no other way.

Tucket

OccamsRazor04

Tucket
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

But hasn't freewill been highjacked by TPTB in many cases? And yeah its Zeitgeist bs. But the astrological parallels are there..

No, they aren't. They made that all up, as in, it's completely wrong. They did it because people will believe it without even checking to see if it's true .. like you did.

All you have to do to check for truth is examine the constellations, the stars, the equinoxes, the suns movement patterns. You'll see the parallels. The sun is the son.

Of course there are astrological parallels! God is the creator of all that we know. His handy work is everywhere and in everything he created. The sun rises and sets because he made it so. God sent his son so that we might believe. Finding parallels in nature is recognizing the creator.

reply to post by Tucket

How does a Christian deal with knowing this?

I'd say if one were to base the answer to your question on the responses you've gotten so far, the answer would seem to be:

THEY DON'T. They ignore it.

But that's not the case, not really. Just wanted to let you know that there are LOTS of us on here who are not Bible-literalists, and who realize that mythology is = Christianity. Yet still value the teachings of Christ (whether or not we 'claim' to be Christians. I, for one, do not believe the resurrection story, or the Trinity thing. Still...Jesus? Good guy, whether real or invented.)

The only important thing? Treat others the way you would like to be treated. There is no Original Sin. No "hell", either.

If you're interested in what others have to say, who have decamped and are overcoming the indoctrination that still plagues so many, there are lots of threads and other websites that can help you find the answer to your questions. Here is but one of them:

recoveringfromreligion.org...

As Mark Twain famously said, ”Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”

RR is made up of people who have all given religion our best shot, but we can’t bring ourselves to accept the unacceptable any longer.

If you’ve ever questioned the archaic edicts and laws of holy books, the inconsistent morality and questionable motive of ancient teachings (along with their many modern interpretations); if you’ve raised an eyebrow to virgin births, or found the flaws in resurrections, bronze age “miracles” and the ridiculously misguided “power of prayer;” then Recovering From Religion is the place for you.

We are recovering from every imaginable religion: Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hindus, Muslims, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Evangelicals, and many more. We are happy, we are healthy, and we warmly welcome you to a life free of the confines of faith.

Here's an interesting and pertinent post from another thread that will provide lots of info and sources for you - from a Christian who DOES deal with the Truth. www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here's a well-done video by a former Evangelical Christian (now an atheist) depicting what happens, from the cradle, to the psyche of those who are taught the "original sin" nonsense:


Just thought you might like a compilation of other sorts of answers that I've seen around.
For my part, I'm an Agnostic Deist who believes in the Golden Rule. Was baptised and raised an Episcopalian. ...left at age 16.

That feline You want skinned? There is more than One Way. Dig deeper and | have ZERO doubt that You'll find the Path. ALL the Organized ®eligions are "different" this makes them the "same" Remove what is the 'same' in ALL of them.. Ta Da. Were there any ®eligions before Christianity? Perhaps One of those may be a better fit? But whichever One You choose You'll want to make some kind of commitment. Kinda like getting a "trainer" for the gym, who knows maybe that is why The Church™ passes the hat? (but then that means ALL the lands and riches were OVERKILL; Where would that put the 'Indulgences'?)

look at it this way... At least You are seeking.

namaste